Castrol Edge 10W-30 in Australia

[SR5]

The Castrol Australia web page now features Castrol EDGE 10w30, which wasn't there last time I looked. I'm very excited, I've been looking for a full synthetic 10w30 oil for awhile. Before this turned up, the only synthetic Castrol 30 weight oil we had was the Castrol EDGE 5w30 A3/B4. This new Castrol EDGE 10w30 is an ILSAC oil, but their PDS sheet was very slim on details, so I rang Castrol up and asked them for HTHS & TBN, and they told me real numbers !!

The details are below, both for 10w30 and 5w30 Castrol EDGE, for comparison.

Castrol EDGE 10w30 (API SN, ACEA A5/B5, ILSAC GF-5)
Vis 40C = 66.2
Vis 100C = 10.47
Pour Point = -36C
TBN = 11.2
HTHS = 3.2

Castrol EDGE 5w30 A3/B4 (API SL, ACEA A3/B4, BMW LL-01, MB 229.5) (Note Castrols says: "Passes all engine test performance requirements for API SN and SM but exceeds Phosphorus limits for those classifications.")
Vis 40C = 71.8
Vis 100C = 12.0
Pour Point = -36C
TBN = 10.2
HTHS = 3.6

I also rang around a few shops to see if I could find the 10w30 Castrol EDGE.
SuperCheapAuto (SCA) - not in stock and no idea
Repco - not in stock now, but they expect it soon
AutoBarn - not in stock now, but they can order it in and get it in about a week. The price is $60 for 5L for the 10w30 (note the 5w30 costs about $70 for 5L, normal retail in Oz).

And just for completeness, I can now get imported Kendall full synthetic GT-1 10w30, it's details are
Kendall GT-1 10w30 full synthetic ( SN, GF-5)
Vis 40C = 63.2
Vis 100C = 10.4
Pour Point = -39C
TBN = 8.0
HTHS = 3.1

All three of the above oils should contain Titanium additive, as well as the normal Zinc.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Castrol EDGE 5w30 is much thicker than 10W30, it's a little unusual.

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Castrol EDGE 5w30 is much thicker than 10W30, it's a little unusual.


Those specs are the opposite of what I would expect. A5/B5 for the 10w30, A3/B4 for the 5w30.

 

[Joe90_guy]

You can't tell from the numbers but I'm going to guess that the 10W30 is based on OCP VII which is the sensible choice for such an oil. Now all they need to do is offer a 10W20 variant and all will be well with the world...

 

[Shannow]

To quote Lobo..."fraggin' bastiches"...I wouldn't run it in my Nissan diesel, but would in the Caprice...but I've got a couple years worth of oil in the shed.

Funny that the 10W30 magnatec semi is A3/B4

 

[SR5]

Hi Joe90,

I've been trying to learn from yourself, Solarent and bobbydavro, about VII's and even though I don't know how they made the oil (or much about the field at all), I can see the logic of your argument.

It's a low VI, full synthetic oil (Group 3, I assume), right in the middle of the KV100 range (so lots of wiggle room), but being ILSAC no min HTHS floor of 3.5 to worry about.

So do most of the work by blending the correct base oils, then a touch of high efficiency OCP to fine tune the product. With little to worry about in terms of Noack or deposits because it's a narrow band 10W with hardly any VII in it.

If it shears a bit in the A5/B5 KO30 shear test, you are better off using your KV100 head room than using a more expensive low SSI VII.

Anyway, however it's made, I think I like the look of the oil. Compared to some other ILSAC 10w30's I've seen, it has a slightly higher HTHS of 3.2, and a massive TBN of 11. Their PDS didn't give these values (HTHS or TBN) so I just rang up Castrol Australia, asked a straight question and got a straight answer. Very refreshing, an honest business - customer relationship. I'm sure I will buy some at some stage, but I still have 10L of Castrol EDGE 5w30 A3/B4 to use up first.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Shannow


Funny that the 10W30 magnatec semi is A3/B4


Yeah the 10w30 semi-syn A3/B4 magnatec, has been replaced by a 5w30 full synthetic A3/B4 magnatec. As I'm sure you know, since you spotted it first. That sort of makes sense to me, as 5w30 has become to go-to grade for many people. So being a mid scale product, that's SN and A3/B4, in 5w30, it ticks a lot of boxes. Without this oil, Castrol did not have a full synthetic SN 5w30 oil in Australia (Edge being SL). They needed one of those.

The mineral GTX 10w30 is an ILSAC oil, and most of the other semi-syn 10w30's in Oz are also ILSAC oils. Both Shell Helix HX7 10w30 and Valvoline DuraBlend / EngineArmour 10w30 are ILSAC oils. Also I don't think Castrol had a full synthetic (or any) A5/B5 oil in Australia, but others like Valvoline do.

So the two new Castrol products work well together: Full Synthetic 5w30 SN (Magnatec, also A3/B4) and Full Synthetic 10w30 ILSAC & A5/B5 (Edge, also SN). That's three boxes ticked with two oils.

 

[dlundblad]

Now I am confused again. What is the difference between A3/B3 and A4/B4? I just noticed Mobil 1 0w40 for example has both.

I am not sure if my wording is correct, but I think of an A5/B5 as the next best thing to an A3/B3. Good for turbo's and DI engines..

 

[SR5]

Both A3/B3 and A3/B4 are high HTHS oils, above 3.5

The main difference between the two is TBN, it needs to be 8 or more to be A3/B3 but 10 or more to be A3/B4. If you can claim A3/B4, being the higher standard, then you can automatically claim A3/B3.

Both A1/B1 and A5/B5 are low HTHS (less 3.5) resource conserving oils, with a TBN of 8 or more. The both have a HTHS minimum of 2.9 for xW-30 oils, but A1/B1 allows a HTHS min of 2.6 for xW-20 oils which A5/B5 does not allow. A5/B5 also allows for greater SAPS etc. If you can claim A5/B5, being the higher standard, then you can automatically claim A1/B1 too.

If you want the stoutest oil go A3/B4 for high HTHS and high TBN.

If you want a RC oil, I think A5/B5 is better, but for xW-20 you can only claim A1/B1. I think the Americaian Dexos standard is very similar to the European A1/B1 & A5/B5 standard. But I don't think you guys have any equivalent to the A3 standard.

BTW the Australian Castrol EDGE 10w30 PDS was first spotted by supercity

 

[Joe90_guy]

Originally Posted By: SR5
Hi Joe90,

I've been trying to learn from yourself, Solarent and bobbydavro, about VII's and even though I don't know how they made the oil (or much about the field at all), I can see the logic of your argument.

It's a low VI, full synthetic oil (Group 3, I assume), right in the middle of the KV100 range (so lots of wiggle room), but being ILSAC no min HTHS floor of 3.5 to worry about.

So do most of the work by blending the correct base oils, then a touch of high efficiency OCP to fine tune the product. With little to worry about in terms of Noack or deposits because it's a narrow band 10W with hardly any VII in it.

If it shears a bit in the A5/B5 KO30 shear test, you are better off using your KV100 head room than using a more expensive low SSI VII.

Anyway, however it's made, I think I like the look of the oil. Compared to some other ILSAC 10w30's I've seen, it has a slightly higher HTHS of 3.2, and a massive TBN of 11. Their PDS didn't give these values (HTHS or TBN) so I just rang up Castrol Australia, asked a straight question and got a straight answer. Very refreshing, an honest business - customer relationship. I'm sure I will buy some at some stage, but I still have 10L of Castrol EDGE 5w30 A3/B4 to use up first.



Well done! You're beginning to think like a formulator. Now all you need to do is perfect the art of looking perpetually grumpy, seriously p1ssing people off (especially idiot senior managers and directors) and swearing all the time...

 

[Shannow]

Joe90_guy sounds exactly the same as a turbine engineer that I used to be know.

 

[Ducman]

The Castrol certainly sounds interesting.

At full retail pricing the Amsoil ATM which is currently in use in my vehicle, is in between the 2 Castrol oils.

I don't know about the veracity of the claims made by Castrol regarding TBN and HTHSv, as these things can be a bit rubbery depending upon the lab where they're tested.

For the life of me, I can't understand why they would want to bring out an oil that's virtually been superseded in the market by a 5w30 grade as the new default go to oil.

In theory and based on the claims by Castrol it's marginally better than the Amsoil ATM in terms of HTHSv, but it's a bit behind on TBN.
However, it remains to be seen how it actually compares with the results of respective VOA's out of the same lab.
Further to this, the question also needs to be asked "how does the Castrol actually hold up in service"?

For all we know the Castrol may shear a little prematurely?
In that case it wouldn't be any different to the Amsoil in service.
For that matter I don't think any engine could tell the difference between them anyway.

I wonder if Castrol are attempting to fill the void left by the absence of the Mobil 1 which was widely available here in 10w30 grade until the dexos spec can into effect where it was replaced overnight by the 5w30 grade.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy

Now all you need to do is perfect the art of looking perpetually grumpy, seriously p1ssing people off (especially idiot senior managers and directors) and swearing all the time...


I've already mastered all that part

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Castrol EDGE 5w30 is much thicker than 10W30, it's a little unusual.

Point this thread to Merk each time he goes on one of his 10w30 benders.

That 5w30 looks to be same Castrol EDGE 5w30 A3/B4 I've found on our shelves.

SR5: Maybe the new synthetic 10w30 in Australia is all the synthetic 10w30 that got yanked from the Canadian Tire shelves here! Actually, Castrol 10w30 SN/GF-5 was one of the last synthetic 10w30 holdouts, and it was on the clearance shelves at one location.

 

[bobbydavro]

A formulation I know well, no OCP involved I'm afraid

Its going to be above 10TBN for the ACEA A3/B4 claims and will need a lowish HTHS for the GF5 claim.
Sure the Kv100 is lower than the 5w30 but this is because it is carrying a lot less VM (hence the lower HTHS). This helps keeps things clean and minimize the effect of any VM shear.

However these fresh oil values compared to other oils rarely mean much in real world.

5w30 A3/B4 is really targeting those European OEM specs, no API SN or GF-5.

 

[Joe90_guy]

I stand corrected.

Interestingly, the other day I was reading this...

http://www.google.tg/patents/WO2013066915A1?cl=en

It's an Exxon patent that said if you want FE, dump the low SSI Shellvis and add high SSI OCP.

To be honest, I felt like I'd had my pocket picked. Come on Exxon! You're world's richest and biggest oil company. Come up with some ideas of your own are stop ripping off other people's inspiration...

 

[SR5]

BD:A formulation I know well, no OCP involved I'm afraid
SR5: OK, no worries

BD:Its going to be above 10TBN for the ACEA A3/B4 claims and will need a lowish HTHS for the GF5 claim.
SR5: We are talking about the 10w30 right? It's A5/B5 and isn't that a TBN of 8 ? You can't have an A3/B4 & ILSAC in one oil surely ?

BD :Sure the Kv100 is lower than the 5w30 but this is because it is carrying a lot less VM (hence the lower HTHS). This helps keeps things clean and minimize the effect of any VM shear.
SR5: yes, sounds good

BD:However these fresh oil values compared to other oils rarely mean much in real world.
SR5: Sorry, in what respect? Not trying to be rude, I just don't understand the particular point you are trying to make.

BD: 5w30 A3/B4 is really targeting those European OEM specs,
SR5: Ofcourse

BD :no API SN or GF-5.
SR5: naturally the Euro OEM specs are the reason for the A3/B4 Edge, so ILSAC would be impossible, and the SN secondary. The synthetic Magnatec 5w30 was an important addition to Castrol in Australia, because until this came along they had no full synthetic SN 5w30 in Australia. I had no problem using the SL 5w30 Edge instead, but I know it bothered others who wanted a synthetic SN 5w30 , just like all the other players had.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: SR5
BD:However these fresh oil values compared to other oils rarely mean much in real world.
SR5: Sorry, in what respect? Not trying to be rude, I just don't under stand the particular point you are trying to make.

Likely because depletion rates vary greatly from one oil/add pack to another. You can have oil A with starting TBN of 10, and oil B with starting TBN of 9, and after 10K miles, oil A could be at 2, and oil B could be at 3.

 

[Joe90_guy]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: SR5
BD:However these fresh oil values compared to other oils rarely mean much in real world.
SR5: Sorry, in what respect? Not trying to be rude, I just don't under stand the particular point you are trying to make.

Likely because depletion rates vary greatly from one oil/add pack to another. You can have oil A with starting TBN of 10, and oil B with starting TBN of 9, and after 10K miles, oil A could be at 2, and oil B could be at 3.



Yeah but oil B could have a higher TAN than oil A because 'slow depletion detergent' is code for 'garbage additive'...

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: SR5
BD:However these fresh oil values compared to other oils rarely mean much in real world.
SR5: Sorry, in what respect? Not trying to be rude, I just don't under stand the particular point you are trying to make.

Likely because depletion rates vary greatly from one oil/add pack to another. You can have oil A with starting TBN of 10, and oil B with starting TBN of 9, and after 10K miles, oil A could be at 2, and oil B could be at 3.


OK thanks, that makes sense.

However because they are both Castrol Edge products, I would have assumed that they were roughly comparable. Atleast more so than a brand A PCMO and a brand B HDEO.