Car prices to rise due to tariffs and certain vehicles possibly ...

[Pew]

Not sure we're all of the above comes from. I'm talking in general terms, not about people you know and whatever problems they're going through.

Women definitely motivate men to work harder, and there is plenty of data and studies behind this. Married men out earn single men by a very significant margin. This trend tracks across all races and cultures.
You may think it's ridiculous, but that's just how it is.



View attachment 274772

Your pictures shows married men make more money than single men. Not men make more money because of women.

It's been known for a long time that married men sit on top of the wage pyramid. Higher earning men have it easier to find spouses, having a family (additional bills), easier to job search when the other can temporarily take up bills, or working more hours to avoid home life.

I mean doing better in life for your family is always a good thing. Doing better in life only because of the family may not always work because if the family element isn't there, then the person has lost their means to improve.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Watch beer consumption, tracks with layoffs .

Yep. Alcohol consumption goes up.

 

[Torrid]

Almost every state has a shortage of high tech manufacturing workers.

As comedian Ronny Chieng says “If you are willing to die for your country - why aren’t you willing to learn math?”

https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/the-states-suffering-most-from-the-labor-shortage?state=

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I guess if I was looking to cut my pay in half. That doesn't sound like getting ahead. Pay is the problem. No one wants to admit that though.

It begs the question of how are we going to fill all these jobs that are going to be brought back to the US?

 

[PontiacHO]

They will rise…because it’s a great excuse for dealers-sellers to margin up. Just like the fickle stock market….it is manipulated for the few that have mega funds to buy low. If our stock market-country’s financial system is so utterly fragile then we all need to hide our money in the mattress.

 

[KrisZ]

Your pictures shows married men make more money than single men. Not men make more money because of women.

It's been known for a long time that married men sit on top of the wage pyramid. Higher earning men have it easier to find spouses, having a family (additional bills), easier to job search when the other can temporarily take up bills, or working more hours to avoid home life.

I mean doing better in life for your family is always a good thing. Doing better in life only because of the family may not always work because if the family element isn't there, then the person has lost their means to improve.

I think we agree more than we disagree.
I didn't say men earn more because of women, but it's the drive to attract one that will motivate a man, because we all now women are attracted to wealth.
Same if for having a family. It motivates a man to work harder, put in more hours to support his family.
Is it the only driver for men, of course not, but it's pretty big. And it's missing for a lot of men these days I would say.
Not sure what's in dispute here

 

[svtrit]

This is a very long conversation. I only get my paid two weeks of vacation a year. I don't get holiday pay unless I'm working the holiday. At that point I get bonus pay. I also don't get any overtime if I don't work over 10 hours a day and that's including if I hit 40 hours because of the crap deals the railroads have worked with the federal government. Keep in mind that the electrician you're talking to has likely been screwed through business dealings with the government considering how they try and keep unions down.

Just for transparency I made $140k last year. My previous non union railroad paid me $72k my best year. The work load was still similar. It's why I left my last railroad. They don't care about us. They keep us constantly recorded on camera, expect us to be rested no matter the needs of the business to meet a two hour call and will fire us in an instant if we fall asleep even with the train stopped waiting for a signal to advance.

Businesses aren't out here to treat us fairly. They're out to get the most for their money and don't care about us. We cut unions and we instantly become second class citizens. Everyone is out here to say the US treats people fairly and it's very much class warfare. I'm gone 90 hours a week minimum and between working and living in hotels to make what I do.

You wonder how railroad unions get away with what they do? Piss off. You obviously don't understand the lifestyle. I give up everything to keep my family comfortable. At this point I wonder if it's worth it. There's no blue collar way to get ahead in this country these days. The billionaire elite goes out of their way to make sure they can extract every dollar from us. It's just modern slavery.

I meant I don't know now the union gets away with treating people they way they do. When the members threatened the strike a couple years ago, it was the first time I stood with the union after hearing the way they treated people. Not having sick time is absolutely ridiculous. 2 hour call in windows is ridiculous.

 

[Torrid]

I meant I don't know now the union gets away with treating people they way they do. When the members threatened the strike a couple years ago, it was the first time I stood with the union after hearing the way they treated people. Not having sick time is absolutely ridiculous. 2 hour call in windows is ridiculous.

We can't strike. That's the kicker. It's illegal for us to strike. It's not even the union causing us issues. it's the carrier(company) combined with all the stuff the federal government says we're not allowed to do. Realistically we do have sick time. It's not paid, but I've never worked anywhere that paid sick time. You get one uncontested sick day a month. Any more than that and you have to have a Dr's note which is insane, but it's due to the attendance policy. I think the specific event you're referring to is the one where it wasn't the carrier or the union that hurt us, it was President Biden. He was able to force the contract on us because of the threat of strike. Not to make it political, but we really got hosed there. They tried to make it sound like they were doing us a favor with the mediocre pay increase given we were already running on a contract that had expired and we hadn't seen a raise in 3 years.

Now as as far as the 2 hour call goes, it used to be 3 hours because they closed down a location and forced people to our current location, so the compromise was an additional hour call to make up for it. Somehow the union lost that provision to the carrier and we're back to a 2 hour call. Now I can see the boards of the trains that should be called and how many people are available in front of me to gauge when I might go to work, but that's sometimes not that reliable. There are jobs that have specific start times that can be bid if you have the seniority to hold it, but I work at a through terminal and 95% of our trains are just coming through and we get called to recrew them when they arrive, which is why so many of us work on call.

 

[Jarpin]

That, and maybe people will start shopping for vehicles that are within their financial means; or repair what they have. Not everyone needs a Mercedes, an $80K F-150, or a brand new car when all their current vehicle needs is some routine maintenance.

Scott

Yep. See that here in the southern states more than elsewhere. 20 and 30 somethings with not much of an education or fiscal mindset rolling around in overpriced Eurotrash just because they got approved for it but scant resources to pay it off.

 

[PandaBear]

Why are we bringing men vs women, only fans, etc into this conversation?

This is 2025, in most developed nations men and women both work at least till child bearing age and then some couples decide to have housewives while others decide it is better to have 2 incomes and share child raising responsibilities.

Divorce rate is near 50% or so all over developed nations. This is nothing unique to US now and certainly not caused by trade imbalance.

 

[Kurtatron]

My opinion is tariffs could help in the long run if Americans were willing to tough out the hard before the better. But then what happens when the next president decides to abrogate all the tariffs? There goes corporate competitive advantages. I think corporations know this.
Also, bringing back manufacturing only helps blue collar workers and non-stem people. But again, corporations that think long term aren’t easily swayed by 4 years of tariffs. America would probably be better off if people avoided buying foreign products and Americans made quality competitive goods, even if they cost more.
Japanese buy mostly Japanese cars.
Europeans buy mostly European cars etc.
If our international creditors can’t buy manufactured goods for all the dollars we’ve given them, then they’ll want something else, like real estate or corporate stocks. Neither of those seem great to sell to less than favorable foreign interests.

 

[GON]

If our international creditors can’t buy manufactured goods for all the dollars we’ve given them, then they’ll want something else, like real estate or corporate stocks. Neither of those seem great to sell to less than favorable foreign interests.

Guess we can do what other nations have done when they can't pay the interest in their debts, exchange the interest payment for things like US airports, US interstates, national parks, federal lands. Maybe we can trade the debt payments for our military installations, and lease the military installations back from these foreign nations we owe the interest on the debt to, along with owing them the debt..

 

[JeffKeryk]

My opinion is tariffs could help in the long run if Americans were willing to tough out the hard before the better. But then what happens when the next president decides to abrogate all the tariffs? There goes corporate competitive advantages. I think corporations know this.
Also, bringing back manufacturing only helps blue collar workers and non-stem people. But again, corporations that think long term aren’t easily swayed by 4 years of tariffs. America would probably be better off if people avoided buying foreign products and Americans made quality competitive goods, even if they cost more.
Japanese buy mostly Japanese cars.
Europeans buy mostly European cars etc.
If our international creditors can’t buy manufactured goods for all the dollars we’ve given them, then they’ll want something else, like real estate or corporate stocks. Neither of those seem great to sell to less than favorable foreign interests.

Targeted tariffs yes. But that's not what is is going on. If you want manufacturing superiority, educate more engineers and business professionals. But that's not what is going on.

 

[scoot]

Targeted tariffs yes. But that's not what is is going on. If you want manufacturing superiority, educate more engineers and business professionals. But that's not what is going on.

True , easier said then done . When you have a state like Oregon where you don't need to know basic math or being able to read to get a diploma, it doesn't give great confidence in a glorious future .

 

[JeffKeryk]

True , easier said then done . When you have a state like Oregon where you don't need to know basic math or being able to read to get a diploma, it doesn't give great confidence in a glorious future .

Then we are doomed.

 

[KrisZ]

Targeted tariffs yes. But that's not what is is going on. If you want manufacturing superiority, educate more engineers and business professionals. But that's not what is going on.

It’s not just that. China can steal any and all IP it comes across. You simply cannot compete with thieves.
Tariffs will get China to the negotiating table and hopefully we can make some fair deals for both sides. Thus far, China benefited tremendously and has not faced real competition on a level playing field.

 

[slo town]

China can steal any and all IP it comes across.

Correction. China WILL steal any and all IP it comes across. It's what they do.

Scott

 

[Kurtatron]

It’s not just that. China can steal any and all IP it comes across. You simply cannot compete with thieves.
Tariffs will get China to the negotiating table and hopefully we can make some fair deals for both sides. Thus far, China benefited tremendously and has not faced real competition on a level playing field.

Auto parts supplier I worked for found one of their parts being sold on Alibaba, pirated. The part had all the logo information removed and was plastic molded in inferior quality.

 

[PandaBear]

My opinion is tariffs could help in the long run if Americans were willing to tough out the hard before the better. But then what happens when the next president decides to abrogate all the tariffs? There goes corporate competitive advantages. I think corporations know this.
Also, bringing back manufacturing only helps blue collar workers and non-stem people. But again, corporations that think long term aren’t easily swayed by 4 years of tariffs. America would probably be better off if people avoided buying foreign products and Americans made quality competitive goods, even if they cost more.
Japanese buy mostly Japanese cars.
Europeans buy mostly European cars etc.
If our international creditors can’t buy manufactured goods for all the dollars we’ve given them, then they’ll want something else, like real estate or corporate stocks. Neither of those seem great to sell to less than favorable foreign interests.

The only way you can cost effectively bring back manufacturing is automation. This still means less labor hour per dollar of products produced. This is the trend of human civilization since stone age. I don't think it is all bad, when the economy is moving back domestically. What I have problem with is the unrealistic expectation that moving production back to the US "will create jobs". It may create some, it may also lose some, we will find out very soon how it goes.

A lot of today's manufacturing work is white collar support role for the automation. Those are service jobs that even if production is outsourced or offshored they remains with the US. I would say most of the work in semiconductor is white collar for the obvious reason (you don't want human in cleanroom). Automotive will be like that more and more and this is why union is dying, not because they siphon money off vs foreign labor unions.

The biggest obstacle to US production is the accountant CEO without an engineering degree, chasing quarter earning and tanking companies over 10 years.

Most US debts are issued with USD so in the worst case we can issue more bonds or print more money. This is not something 3rd world country can do so they have things like 20% inflation and devaluation of 50%. Foreign debt holders can hedge their currency to USD but that risk having their inflation being much larger than US due to economy size difference, or forced to increase interest rate when they should have drop them, causing their own economical problem.

The way I see it we can slowly inflate away our debt, or we can have a sudden shock to drop it, pick your poison.

 

[Torrid]

The only way you can cost effectively bring back manufacturing is automation. This still means less labor hour per dollar of products produced. This is the trend of human civilization since stone age. I don't think it is all bad, when the economy is moving back domestically. What I have problem with is the unrealistic expectation that moving production back to the US "will create jobs". It may create some, it may also lose some, we will find out very soon how it goes.

A lot of today's manufacturing work is white collar support role for the automation. Those are service jobs that even if production is outsourced or offshored they remains with the US. I would say most of the work in semiconductor is white collar for the obvious reason (you don't want human in cleanroom). Automotive will be like that more and more and this is why union is dying, not because they siphon money off vs foreign labor unions.

The biggest obstacle to US production is the accountant CEO without an engineering degree, chasing quarter earning and tanking companies over 10 years.

Most US debts are issued with USD so in the worst case we can issue more bonds or print more money. This is not something 3rd world country can do so they have things like 20% inflation and devaluation of 50%. Foreign debt holders can hedge their currency to USD but that risk having their inflation being much larger than US due to economy size difference, or forced to increase interest rate when they should have drop them, causing their own economical problem.

The way I see it we can slowly inflate away our debt, or we can have a sudden shock to drop it, pick your poison.

You make a good point. The only way for business earnings to be shown as doing well it's just going to keep driving more money to the top of the heap. Automation will take those jobs below that, but every time you ask anyone about bringing jobs back to the US, so many say yes. You get a no from them when asked if they're interested in those manufacturing jobs. We have low unemployment and can't fill the manufacturing jobs we have now.

As far as that last point that I bolded the second option is extremely risky as we may find now even this bit of uncertainty may be too much to climb out of in the short term. I guess eventually long term, but there's already people losing their jobs on speculation, orders are dropping which is slowing business and the domino effect of layoffs will continue. Keep in mind I just said we had more manufacturing jobs than we can fill. That's based on orders and projections. That's one way to fix the shortage of workforce, just make it where we need less manufacturing jobs because business is retracting instead.

We're in for a lot of pain for the next few years unless tactics change drastically.

 

[PandaBear]

Keep in mind I just said we had more manufacturing jobs than we can fill. That's based on orders and projections. That's one way to fix the shortage of workforce, just make it where we need less manufacturing jobs because business is retracting instead.

"We have more jobs than can fill" is always a pointless argument without telling us how much we are paying, compare to how much we paid before, and how much we want to pay, and how much we want to be paid.

I will wash toilet all day for the rest of my life if someone pay me 2M a year, but obviously nobody would. Someone will take a job now that risk killing them 5 years down the road due to health hazard if their families need it now. It is a pointless argument without knowing the demand and supply and cost of quality of life.

One thing I can say for sure is today's work safety is a lot better than 50 years ago, and part of that is the cost of work hazard, but unfortunately also means some of those jobs will never be around ever again at the same time we fix the work hazard with elimination of those dangerous jobs.