cap monthly student-loan payments

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It makes more sense to rack up huge student loans while getting a first rate highly prestigious education so that you can get a job as a CEO in a big corporation like GM. You can bleed the company dry for years with your fat pay-cheques and crazy bonuses. Then when the company is all but depleted you can lobby the government for taxpayer dollars to support your parachute ride to the next company and start all over again and leave the mess you made behind. This will more than make up for your student loans!
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Now, however, a nationwide study shows the magnitude of the gap: the average high school graduation rate in the nation’s 50 largest cities was 53 percent, compared with 71 percent in the suburbs.

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In Cleveland, for instance, where the gap was largest, only 38 percent of high school freshmen graduated within four years, compared with 80 percent in the Cleveland suburbs, the report said. In Baltimore, which has the nation’s second-largest gap, 41 percent of students graduate from city schools, compared with 81 percent in the suburbs.

New York also had a large gap, with 54 percent of freshmen graduating within four years from schools in the city, compared with 83 percent from suburban high schools.

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The study found that the Indianapolis public schools had the lowest graduation rate of any large American city in 2005, with only 30 percent of freshmen graduating on time. Several large Western cities, in contrast, had graduation rates that exceeded the national average. The Mesa Unified District in Arizona had the highest graduation rate of any large city, with 77 out of every 100 freshmen there graduating four years later, the study found.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/education/22dropout.html
If these numbers are considered a good thing, then those that support gov. schools, please keep lobbying for more.
 
Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris

So you CHOSE to go to an out-of state college and pay higher tuition. Now you want taxpayers to pay for YOUR choices??? Cry me a river.

I have 2 bachelor degrees and a Masters. I CHOSE not to go a tier 2 or tier 1 college. I graduated with $0 in school debt. So did my wife. We have no school debt, and even though I earn less than someone with a degree from UC Davis, I probably take home more in NET pay, since I do not have to pay $1000 a month in college loans.

College education is open to anyone who wants to work for it. Get a part time job and and go to school. That's what I did.


I am already done with college, and I was paying out of state tuition because I was a FOREIGNER at the time. Hey, I wasn't complaining for myself, just the local residents who live in this country, and how bad it would be for them if they have to pay with an arm and a leg I like did. Get it?

What your get in your degree, even though you pay less than the tier 1 & 2 schools (assuming you went to a public school) is still subsidized by the Fed and State government. What you didn't realize is if you were forced to pay the full price, it would cost just as much as the tier 1 & 2 schools you couldn't afford to go to.
 
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
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This is the cost that the school can run without help from the Fed and State government.

Where does that "help" come from? Taxes, which reduces people's purchasing power. Do you really think that a college education should cost $35K a year...at a state college?

That number should be screaming at you as to what the state running things does to costs.


Obviously you haven't check how much private schools cost at that time as well, let me tell you since I have the quote from back in the days: it is also about $35k a year for a school with equivalent quality.

You can go to JC and save 50%, but with my experience doing part time master at a lesser college (San Jose State), the quality of education is definitely different: no discussion session, no 24 hour library, lack of TA, student grading each others' project, cheating, etc.
 
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
Now, however, a nationwide study shows the magnitude of the gap: the average high school graduation rate in the nation’s 50 largest cities was 53 percent, compared with 71 percent in the suburbs.

Quote:
In Cleveland, for instance, where the gap was largest, only 38 percent of high school freshmen graduated within four years, compared with 80 percent in the Cleveland suburbs, the report said. In Baltimore, which has the nation’s second-largest gap, 41 percent of students graduate from city schools, compared with 81 percent in the suburbs.

New York also had a large gap, with 54 percent of freshmen graduating within four years from schools in the city, compared with 83 percent from suburban high schools.

Quote:
The study found that the Indianapolis public schools had the lowest graduation rate of any large American city in 2005, with only 30 percent of freshmen graduating on time. Several large Western cities, in contrast, had graduation rates that exceeded the national average. The Mesa Unified District in Arizona had the highest graduation rate of any large city, with 77 out of every 100 freshmen there graduating four years later, the study found.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/education/22dropout.html
If these numbers are considered a good thing, then those that support gov. schools, please keep lobbying for more.


You analysis support nothing about supporting government school or not, other than we should move all schools to the suburb to boost its graduation rates.

Bad statistics given by a bad liar.
 
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it is also about $35k a year for a school with equivalent quality.

Why should they charge less for a (probably) better product when the state sets a similar price?

They actually have to earn money to pay their bills and to make a profit as well. There are smaller private colleges that don't charge that as well. If you want the prestige of going to a big private school, you are going to pay for it.
 
So a person living on a park bench, sheltering under pizza boxes is there because of poor personal choices.

While a flunkie is "produced" by the public school system.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
So a person living on a park bench, sheltering under pizza boxes is there because of poor personal choices.

While a flunkie is "produced" by the public school system.

Say what?
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
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it is also about $35k a year for a school with equivalent quality.

Why should they charge less for a (probably) better product when the state sets a similar price?

They actually have to earn money to pay their bills and to make a profit as well. There are smaller private colleges that don't charge that as well. If you want the prestige of going to a big private school, you are going to pay for it.


1) They are private but non-profit (so are most schools, that's why you can donate to them to get a tax deduction).

2) They are private, but not better quality (so I went to the public school still). Some people like it better (smaller classes and wealthier friends/students for better connection in the future) but I found them not always better in area I care about (academic reputation).
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
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Bad statistics given by a bad liar.

Really?
3 in 10 don't graduate from high school in the US
These aren't my numbers.

And you say that you don't understand why I take your attacks personally?


If you think my attack is personal, Ok, I'll apologize for that. What I said should be "bad statistics given by a bad statistician". Your number is still irrelevant because it didn't compare private school on the same footing.

Now if you look at why the private school is not having as much drop out: they are not forced to accept everyone and do expel students that have problems on a regular basis. They also have admission tests and only accept those who have better test scores (I came from a private high school in the US, and have attended public high school in the US as well).

Those who are on top in both types of schools came from ..... families that value education, and it has nothing to do with the school's type. The best schools here are public, and while it is free to attend if you live in the area, the houses and rents in those area are much higher than in other school districts, and if you factor in the additional payment/interest you have to pay to get into the district ($300k on top of the already high average house costing $600-700k), you are talking about money that is more than sending your kids to a private school.


Don't get me started on some of the horrible private schools in the area that charge an arm and a leg with horrible reputations (Golden Gate University, ICA high school in San Francisco, etc).
 
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: Shannow
So a person living on a park bench, sheltering under pizza boxes is there because of poor personal choices.

While a flunkie is "produced" by the public school system.

Say what?


He said that you are blaming the government in one case, but the individual in another.
 
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The best schools here are public

I would like to see something on that.

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He said that you are blaming the government in one case, but the individual in another.

The two are not mutually exclusive so there is nothing to his statement.
 
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Average private school tuition ($6,600) was about 1/3 less than the spending per pupil in public schools ($9,620) in 2003-2004 (the most recent year available), and average Catholic school tuition ($4,254) was less than half of public school spending per student.

Not only was the average private school tuition between 1/3 and 1/2 less than the cost per public school student, the private schools had on average 18% more teachers per 1000 students (72.25 in private schools vs. 61 in public schools) in 2003-2004.

http://economics.about.com/b/2007/10/28/are-private-schools-more-cost-effective-than-public-ones.htm
 
Sure. What else is new? There are all kinds of costs involved with public education that private and parochial schools don't have. They're exempt from them. Teachers make less, on average ..etc..etc.

I'm all for alternatives. Just as long as you dismantle the public education system when you rob the funding that supports them FIRST ..and not just leave the legacy costs of such things to "little people" while you subsidize your own idea of education with public money ..that you conveniently define as "yours" when it serves your needs best.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
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Average private school tuition ($6,600) was about 1/3 less than the spending per pupil in public schools ($9,620) in 2003-2004 (the most recent year available), and average Catholic school tuition ($4,254) was less than half of public school spending per student.


In San Francisco the best private high school (if you compare apple to apple) would be Saint Ignatius, and cost $14k a year. I would like to see the best public school spend this much per student. The best public high school in San Francisco (Lowell) cost about $8357 per student.

Also notice how the best school actually cost less to run per student than average ($10800). Kind of tells you that statistic of any of these average is pretty much useless huh?

http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/ca/other/6397#finance

http://www.siprep.org/about/
 
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A side note to those who thinks private school cost only tuition. I was in detention because my fund raising quota wasn't met when I was in 1996 when I was a senior in Archibishop Riordan High School by the principle, Father Tim.

He didn't treat us bad, just a friendly reminder that we should know why we were in detention after school and how much the school needs support on top of tuition to run. To be fair our tuition back then was only $5k a year, now it is more like $10k a year in 2008 according to one of my friend who became a teacher there later.

Have these hidden cost been included in Tempest's statistic?
 
My son was 5 days too young to start school. We used the Catholic school right next door to his elementary school for that year. We paid our tuition ..then got the notice for the Easter candy fund raiser. We were expect to make up the difference of the projected/expected sale per pupil. That is, if we had 3 kids in the school ..they expected 3X the sales and 3X the shortfall revenue. I would rather have just paid $8 more a month.
 
The best teacher is a parent who cares about his kids, and teaches them at every opportunity. I try to teach my friends stuff all the time. Edumakation is another monopoly system, where you have to get a special piece of paper, which can only be granted by a select group of businesses. It's no different from the Medical Monopoly, and prices are outrageous, for the same reason.
 
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