cap monthly student-loan payments

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
If you are so educated, please tell me what right do you have to take money that I earned and pay-off someone else's school loan??? Do not forget to site a relevant Article of US Constitution.


Not a right, just that even if you think you paid for your own education, you are the benefit of a subsidized education in the U.S., and therefore it is a nice thing to do to return a favor to the less fortunate one.

If, however, you think you own everything you get and owe nobody nothing, and do not feel bad about not helping out others, well, that's fine too.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: rjundi

I am a supporter.

I understand though an educated population across all income/class groups can make some(uneducated, elite, conservatives) uncomfortable.


I have no problem with the educated. I simply have a problem with those who think they are in a better position to determine how to spend my money than I am.

Folks can be as smart, educated, whatever as they want. Just don't demand that I pay for it beyond the high school diploma.


You can look at it that way, or you can look at it as the government trying to do strategic investment in area that would reduce long term cost in the future.

Let's face it, most talented people with high student loan debt aren't really doing themselves a favor by entering public services (i.e. low paying jobs in the US). As a government you can do one of a few things (all options are valid, and is provided by the rest of the world): 1) increase compensation of the government work, by higher salary or by allowing corruptions, 2) live with a lower quality government staffs, by accepting the below average work force and reduced expectation (i.e. the DMV), 3) reduce the cost of entry into the government work and make it an easy choice for those who couldn't afford the best education, and will settle for it even if it is a lower pay (i.e. dedicated college for teachers that cost 1/2 of regular college or free).

I for sure wouldn't marry a teacher if I want to make a living in 2009, because you are instantly in poverty if she has a student loan. Unless of course if I'm a lawyer or a doctor, which most low income teachers tend to marry nowadays.

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

I give a substantial portion of my income to the charities that I choose. Why should I pay a school loan for a dope-smoking kid that expects everything to be handed to him? I have 3 college degrees and zero school debt. I paid for my schooling, subsidized or not. Why can't you?

Again, a constitutional reference would be nice, until then, you are just blowing smoke.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Why should I pay a school loan for a dope-smoking kid that expects everything to be handed to him?


What makes you sure that your money is only going to dope smoking kids? We're at a 9.x unemployment rate, I can't see any level of motivation overcoming that. You can't "wish" it to go away.

 

[JustinH]

Read the fine print on this program.

Yes, you pay based on your income.

The government pays your interest for the first 3 years of the program.

As you earn more, you pay more. You need to prove your income every year, and they adjust your payment based on what you make.

In most situations, you will pay MORE interest than you would with a regular plan.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
I give a substantial portion of my income to the charities that I choose. Why should I pay a school loan for a dope-smoking kid that expects everything to be handed to him? I have 3 college degrees and zero school debt. I paid for my schooling, subsidized or not. Why can't you?

Again, a constitutional reference would be nice, until then, you are just blowing smoke.


I also didn't decide to spend my tax dollar so that people in Alaska are not invaded by the Russian or have a bridge to nowhere, and I'd rather spending money to save the life of a few starving children than some dope smoking adults with 3 college degrees that aren't necessary (i.e. non medical, non technical, non engineering, non productive to the society).... not targeting any individual, just an example of how ridiculous the argument can lead to.

There are a few things you need to understand with this argument:

1) Lowering the cost of education has nothing to do with helping dope smoking kids. Many people who couldn't afford college if they were on student loan and want to be a teacher, and that's the main reason for our low quality of education and government officials in the nation (compare to the people who work in the private sectors). You can pay them now (by lowering the cost to student loan interest) or later (paying higher salary to attract good people to work for government. If you don't want to pay, you get stuck with what you have in your DMV, or worse.

2) You cannot select only the amount of service you get and the tax you pay. If you want that, I want my share of your bridge to no where, my share of your defense and military base, and my share of your national park maintenance up north as well. There are some nations in the world that works that way, all the way to a point that you have your own body guard instead of police. If this is the type of nations that interests you, there are choices like Somalia out there waiting.

3) Your college expense are probably also subsidized whether you know it or not. Tuition only counts as about 30% of the cost of running an educational institute. Since you get 3 college degrees, you are most likely subsidized more than the rest of your class or your population. Oh, I want my share of your subsidizes back.... =)

 

[sciphi]

I'm in graduate school now, getting my masters degree in speech-language pathology. It's not just telling kids how to say "rabbit", it's also dealing with stroke/traumatic brain injury/swallowing difficulties, among various things. It's an interesting field, and I have met a bunch of very interesting folks so far in my schooling.

It's not cheap, though. Nor is it easy. Also, a $45k/year job starting off is pretty good, unless you want to sell your soul to the healthcare industry.

It's certain that providing my salary will save a lot more, because that child who can't say "rabbit" won't get frustrated in class and drop out of school later, that stroke patient got the right pills after their pharmacist misread the doctor's handwriting, and the folks with traumatic brain injury can better focus on the task at hand and be a productive member of society again.

It would be nice to have a lower payment to match a potentially low ($35k/year) salary the first few years out of school, and pay more as I make more. At the same time, I've been on a budget for a long time, what's a few more years?

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
3) Your college expense are probably also subsidized whether you know it or not. Tuition only counts as about 30% of the cost of running an educational institute. Since you get 3 college degrees, you are most likely subsidized more than the rest of your class or your population. Oh, I want my share of your subsidizes back.... =)


The same thing can be said for public education. When someone whines about paying now ..probably since their kids are out of the system, I tell them fine. Just calculate what they took out of the system while being subsidized by others, add inflation and interest ..offset by what they put into the system ..and, if they want to "pay up" in one lump sum, I'd entertain exempting them from future costs. Most just quiet down after that alternative view.

Meanwhile, there's always the seeking of an escape hatch.

 

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I also didn't decide to spend my tax dollar so that people in Alaska are not invaded by the Russian...


That is actually a role of the federal government, so yes you did decide to pay for that.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I also didn't decide to spend my tax dollar so that people in Alaska are not invaded by the Russian...


That is actually a role of the federal government, so yes you did decide to pay for that.


Of course I did. My family immigrated to the US with all of their savings to pay for my unsubsidized college tuition (the out of state tuition), and subsidized some native born citizen's 3 college degrees, and a bridge to nowhere, and all those sorts of things that he grab, yet accused everyone who pay less than his college tuition as "dope smoking kids that expect everything to be handed to them".

If there is anyone that can whine about subsidizing some professional students' tuition 3 times, that would be me, before they can accuse someone else who would soon be taking a pay cut to become a teacher for the next generation as "dope smoking kid who expect everything to be handed to them".

I seriously think people should show some respect to the ones who do it for the next generation, our kids included.

p.s. I'm not targetting you Benjamming

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I also didn't decide to spend my tax dollar so that people in Alaska are not invaded by the Russian...


That is actually a role of the federal government, so yes you did decide to pay for that.

and subsidized some native born citizen's 3 college degrees, and a bridge to nowhere, and all those sorts of things that he grab, yet accused everyone who pay less than his college tuition as "dope smoking kids that expect everything to be handed to them".

Not sure where "a bridge to nowhere, and all those sorts of things that he grab" came from. I did not not claim/brought up either. Was it directed at me? I am not a "native born citizen", BTW.
I think I am done responding to your posts. I can not change your opinions, you can not change mine.

 

[saberz]

I hate to say it but I think the way "higher education" is right now, its going to impact us in a far negative than positive manner.


Now I remember from my readings and dealings with some really knowledgable and friendly elderly individuals that College/University wasn't as open/affordable as it is today. Only those that really excelled/earned their way were able to go. Money had nothing to do it(at some places it did..) but basically it fed the intelligent.

Now granted, I believe everyone deserves the option to go, but now its almost "mandatory". You can't succeed without it, which is a false statement. TO me, in opinion Bachelor's Degree's are still credible but are falling to the way side, so many people have them, from fields unrelated to what they typically apply for that many companies are expecting Master Degree's and then down the road PhD's. So in essence its going back to the old mentality stated earlier in my reply.

Secondly, my tax dollars shouldn't be used to forgive someone else, let it be used to FORGIVE ME. WTH would I want to give some of my money to a shmuck I don't even know who could be some elitist minded individual plotting to wipe us off the face of the earth. Sorry i'd rather fun my own personal evil empire and dreams.

 

[Gary Allan]

I'd say that this is preferable to merely making more student loan money available. If you have demand that outpaces supply ..and you don't want to pay more for ..hmm..something like teachers ..and you don't want to just throw education institutions more bones whenever they roll over, it would be best to spend the money on reducing the impact on the individual who is willing to work in a less personally gratifying post.

No one seems to find it objectionable for nurses and doctors getting forgiveness for their educational costs ..or getting forgiven to work in less profitable areas. This I have to assume is because the government (federal) isn't dispensing the forgiveness. But it's merely a perception thing, since the demand for medical professionals is fueled by either taxes or revenues drawn from the producing individuals.

It's essentially a privately administered educational welfare system that with impunity and no standard besides supply and demand ..taps into the exact same pockets.

 

[saberz]

What really urks me, is how individuals who went to school for about 1/2 of their lives(exaggerated maybe) and became medical professionals get paid far far less than a person who who didn't even goto college and gets drafted into the NBA out of HS..


I know, off topic, sorry :|

 

[Kestas]

That's supply and demand, Anies... part of the free enterprise system we embrace. If you don't like the high salaries of professional athletes, don't buy tickets to their games.

Besides, of all the pro athlete hopefuls, only a wee tiny percentage actually make it.

 

[PandaBear]

Anies,

This student loan waiving is only for people who work for the government and if you look at how the government is paying nowadays, you will know why they need this to get the non dumb-*($# to work for them.

It is more like a recruitment bonus, not a giveaway. Heck, maybe they should just raise the salary for federal employees and reduce the amount of them (i.e. outsource most government works to India and China).

I had a high school coach that came out of a few years playing NBA. He wasn't on the top and he had to buy his own shoes and make a salary similar to what a high school teacher makes. Medical doctor, however, still gets paid more on the median/average scale. It's a free country, you can still try out for NBA if you got what it takes.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
Originally Posted By: rjundi

I am a supporter.

I understand though an educated population across all income/class groups can make some(uneducated, elite, conservatives) uncomfortable.

If you are so educated, please tell me what right do you have to take money that I earned and pay-off someone else's school loan??? Do not forget to site a relevant Article of US Constitution.

If you get it from the government it was taken from someone else.