It’s actually far easier, safer, cheaper and cleaner to make diesel from #2/4/5/6 plastics .
Only pollution is carbon black, CO2 and methane (which can be refed to increase efficiency)
Can we do more with used oil?
- Thread starter 53' Stude
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Only pollution is carbon black, CO2 and methane (which can be refed to increase efficiency)
There was one place on the APIs smeg list that was re-using oil bottles and refilling them with 10 with 30 topoff oil that tested very similarly to used oil.
MolaKule
Staff member
We can make fuels from waste oil but due to the current volume of waste oil available, which is too low to make the volatile fuels in quantity, it is not as yet viable. A refinery needs a constant feed stream to make the volume of fuels necessary for the market.
This is from Tecoil, "We produce only the highest quality API Group II/II+/III base oils in a sustainable and profitable way. With our technology and expertise, used lubricant oils can be regenerated and reused unlimited number of times."
https://tecoil.fi/products/
I mentioned this same company in this thread.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...talenergies-acquistion-of-tecoil-rrbo.386760/
Safety CLean Process Video
https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervi...BDA7FDE94134DF3E2BBEBDA7FDE94134DF3&FORM=VIRE
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Used oil is a replacement fuel for natural gas, in high heat industries. Asphalt, Concrete kilns, coking batteries, etc. so that’s why the price of it trends with NG prices.
It’s not so much what they get out of it gas wise. Which, they really don’t in the re-refining process. But as I said, one of the steps in the re-refining process, before hydrotreating, is they make it into VGO’s. VGO’s can be fed right into making distillate cuts like kerosene and diesel fuel.
Market failure of Valvoline NextGen is a fact. I don't know of any current retail PMCO using re-refined base stocks. Let us know the brands and % of recycled base oil they contain.
https://www.google.com/search?q=val...FHYeXB6cQrQJ6BAgfEAY&biw=412&bih=821&dpr=2.63
Educate us all about the kinda know stuff in more detail.
I worked for Marathon Ashland JV while Asland owned Valvoline, the Cattletsburg refinery (still owned by Marathon Petroleum Company) went through significant changes in the lube oils section of the complex when Ashland pulled out of the JV and Valvoline was spun off as an independent company.
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Valvoline went into their “NextGen” failure in-depth at the North American Lubricants expo earlier this year. I covered this in another thread. However, for a quick paraphrasing. It was a marketing failure. Over 60% of potential buyers thought it was recycled. Not re-refined. Nor did the consumer know what “re-refined” means. I believe it can be found online, the speech that is.
Off the shelf oils that use, or have formulas that can use re-refined?
I mean the re-refinery we founded was sold to Warren Highline. Then sold to Vertex Energy. And then sold to GFL environmental.
Warren Highline, Valvoline, Amalie, are, last I heard, still purchase oil from there. Safety Kleen sells base oil to everyone. Every ILMA buys SK base oils at some level. Which is numerous house brands from them or Cam 2. Including, Castrol, whom has a Joint venture with SK currently.
Without going into the more niche ILMA’s such as Pinnacle, RFT, Allegheny, Dennison, etc. and the brands they blend for, all use it still.
The basic formulation consists of around ~65-68% 150N, Afton additive package, and group III’s to meet the cold crank/J300 tests.
So your statement I was all wrong about Valvoline NextGen was a market failure, now you agree to. That was literally all my post said about Valvoline.
Just at the wholesale / fleet levels, and not really sure about the final point of use? Like potentially government fleets?
Here's one example of government fleet as a re-refined formulated motor oil and also recycles spent re-refined oil to demonstrate circulation in the supply chain.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...UQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3lWSQlG73IaOfUaFe5z-zA
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...UQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3lWSQlG73IaOfUaFe5z-zA
You said it was too expensive - when in fact at the time, it was significantly cheaper and is still significantly cheaper than conventional group II’s right now.
You said it was niche, which it is not. The reason it failed, again, wasn’t because it was niche. It was simply because the basic consumer doesn’t understand what they’re buying. Nor do they still understand what they’re buying.
And all the companies I listed could / would / will use re-refined group II’s in every day production. Supertech, conventional Valvoline’s, whatever. It makes an awesome hydraulic oil as well. Aw32 & 46 are very easy to make with it.
Yes, government bids have a set aside for it. It is much easier to sell to the government.
I never saw NextGen cheaper than other "conventional" oils - especially on Walmart shelves where Super Tech oils made from crude with the same approvals were significantly lowest cost of ownership. Same approvals. When clearanced, prices significanty dropped at clearance, with board members posting their "scores" of NextGen. I just stayed with Super Tech as it was significantly cheaper.
It's only by an Executive Order by President Clinton that re-refined oils were made preferable to purchase. Pretty far reaching all the way to the DoD by 2017 as I demonstrated. If not for this edict, the re-refined oil market in the USA would not be what it is today.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2000-04-26/pdf/00-10551.pdf
Government agencies other than Federal jumped on the same band wagon. Thus my original statement that if things were different (no such Executive Order) the re-refined oil industry in the US would be a niche market. This Order gave a massive incentive for economy of scale and best processing scheme development for the re-refined oil market.
It's only by an Executive Order by President Clinton that re-refined oils were made preferable to purchase. Pretty far reaching all the way to the DoD by 2017 as I demonstrated. If not for this edict, the re-refined oil market in the USA would not be what it is today.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2000-04-26/pdf/00-10551.pdf
Government agencies other than Federal jumped on the same band wagon. Thus my original statement that if things were different (no such Executive Order) the re-refined oil industry in the US would be a niche market. This Order gave a massive incentive for economy of scale and best processing scheme development for the re-refined oil market.
You’re confusing retail cost of a gallon… with blending costs. What Walmart charges for a gallon is not related to what it costs Valvoline to make a gallon of it. So please, don’t do that. Walmart can decide to charge whatever they want for a product.
And re-refined oil has been truly around since the 1980s with BresLube, or what now is known as Safety Kleen. We were their second distributor in the world.
Believe me, I know this market very, very well. As both being a life long SK distributor, to literally being a large investor and the main trucking company for their competition. At one point, we were the largest buyer of SK products behind Warren Highline. Then they broke the cardinal rule.
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
You talking Yubase?
Here's my own UOA of the Valvoline NextGen from my old BMW.
It looked really good:
Oil was run 6/2/12-7/30/12, 127,992 to 132,013.
One quart of makeup oil added ~2.5K into the run.
I used Durablend 10W-40 as the add, since I have it in convenient to use quarts and since it appears to be a slightly thinner Maxlife without the moly.
Car was used about as easily as could be imagined, with a typical daily commute of 25 miles each way, a weekend trip of 500 miles and ten days of a 200 mile round trip commute.
Car averaged a hair under 33 mpg (32.99) over the eleven fill-ups during this run, further indication of how gently the thing was used.
Iron 2
Aluminum 2
Copper 1
Silicon 3
Sodium 298
Moly 104
Boron 3
Calcium 2009
Phos 672
Zinc 775
Fuel 2.9%
Visc @ 100C 11.7
TBN 5.11
Oxidation 9
Nitration 10
All values not listed were zero.
Virgin TBN was 8.7 while virgin Visc @ 100C was 14.8.
The fuel dilution probably explains most of the loss in visc, and I believe I know the cause of it.
Seems pretty darn good, but then Valvoline oils usually show good results on moderate drains.
The oil was FAR, of course.
Does anyone else consider this report to be almost too good to be true?
Note the old high sodium formulation Valvoline used for years.
I was always talking about retail costs.
I've never had any knowledge of blending costs, pretty much like the vast majority of the motoring public.
Unless I snag some of the M1 for trucks posted about being clearanced currently at AA, I'll likely go back to Supertech as my stash of QSUD Full Synthetic picked up at $0.99 / quart my cost from Menards after stacked Menards and SOPUS FRN Shell retail (again) rebates only has one change left for my wife's Mustang next year. That was back around the same time Pennzoil Platinum made from GTL technology.
That QSUD probably had higher blending costs but my wallet isn"t necessarily directly impacted by blending costs and that's all I ever really care about. I've never worn out an engine in 46 motoring years, all used vehicles except one truck when I first graduated college.
I've never had any knowledge of blending costs, pretty much like the vast majority of the motoring public.
Unless I snag some of the M1 for trucks posted about being clearanced currently at AA, I'll likely go back to Supertech as my stash of QSUD Full Synthetic picked up at $0.99 / quart my cost from Menards after stacked Menards and SOPUS FRN Shell retail (again) rebates only has one change left for my wife's Mustang next year. That was back around the same time Pennzoil Platinum made from GTL technology.
That QSUD probably had higher blending costs but my wallet isn"t necessarily directly impacted by blending costs and that's all I ever really care about. I've never worn out an engine in 46 motoring years, all used vehicles except one truck when I first graduated college.
I used to work at an oil refinery. We received used oil, and blended it in with crude oil coming in from the ships and tank farms, en route to the refining process.
The same reason you can't turn wax into gasoline: it is a different carbon chain so you need to crack it (so it cost more). It would likely be cheaper to just refine it enough (clean it) and turn it back into engine oil instead. You don't have to tell people your oil is re-refined as long as it met the same spec.
Sometimes .gov needs to do something slightly more expensive to reduce resource use and form markets
ValvolineNextGen was 50% re-refined, 50% virgin oil. VIOC pushed it hard for a while as a "green" alternative, at a higher cost-it flopped big time. I still have 10W40 Maxlife NextGen around, everything I ran it in did well with it. IIRC PQIA had an advisory for the 5W20 standard NG(?) With the profit pressures on the smaller blenders, I don't doubt that loads of re-refined base is going into bulk products...
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