Can oil grade impact cam phasing?

So have I and never had an issue. However 30 years ago we didn't have a wild stampede to small-displacement, Turbocharged, direct injection engines with low-tension piston rings and the resulting oil dilution issues. Both of our 2020 Honda CRV's will show 2.5% or more OD with thinning below grade at 2500 miles with the oil life monitor showing 50% life remaining using the recommended 0W-20. Honda has "supposedly" solved this issue, my UOA's prove (to me) that it's still a serious problem in many Hondas using the 1.5t engines. If I was content to resign myself to 2500 mile OCI's and the resulting costs I might have a long running engine. After a lot of research and discussion with people here on BITOG and my dealer and my Honda Certified Master Technician, I'm going to use 5W-30, interesting, because what he uses in his personal Honda. If the US market wasn't so welded to CAFE standards, Honda might recommend something other than the 0W-20 like they do in the same engine in other countries.

It's also very possible if it wasn't for the fuel dilution they would have speced 0W-16.
 
The really strange thing is, my 2019 Civic Touring Coupe with essentially the same engine, under the same driving conditions got excellent UOA's with Mobil1 0W-20 AFE and 5k OCI's with less than .5% dilution. Go figure?
 
Technically yes, just as oil temp amongst many other things will have an effect on it. Even 5w20 based on blend, brand, etc will vary. Should you be worried? No. The computer is programmed to compensate.
 
My Chrysler van recommends 5W20 but I just bought some 5W30 because it was on sale. In the past I never figured this would cause a problem or maybe even would be slightly better.

The Pentastar engine uses some kind of cam phasers on the cams. I think it's driven by oil pressure. Could changing oil grades cause a problem with the cam timing?

The P-star, like many other engines in domestic vehicles over the last 15-20 years, was originally spec'd with 5W30 oil and then the SPEC was changed, not the engine, in later years.

Everybody already knows that the "thin" oils are being used for CAFE reasons and to save the automaker money. They are not being used because "the engineers designed the engine for it". The engineers do what the bean counters tell them to do. 0W16 and 5W20 oils came about because of government regulation, surprise surprise. Unfortunately the consumer doesn't care about 0.004 MPG on an EPA test cycle. What the consumer cares about is engine longevity. That's why I'll never buy a light weight oil. Ever.
 
My daughter says her 07 Honda CRV does more surging after I change the oil. After it has run a couple thou it stops it. Next change will be 5-30.
 
My daughter says her 07 Honda CRV does more surging after I change the oil. After it has run a couple thou it stops it. Next change will be 5-30.
What causes the surging in your opinion . Not being a jerk with this question . I've seen a few vehicles surge on cold starts but not while running at operating temp ?
 
The surging in her Honda is somehow tied to the VVT solenoid and oil pressure. When the thinner components burn off it works OK. Thats why I am thinking of going to a 10-30 instead of the 5-20 on the filler cap.
 
The surging in her Honda is somehow tied to the VVT solenoid and oil pressure. When the thinner components burn off it works OK. Thats why I am thinking of going to a 10-30 instead of the 5-20 on the filler cap.
Yeah, I'd think there would be more VVT system issues with thinner oil vs thicker oil. If the oil becomes so thin (due to fuel dilution and/or shearing) and the oil pressure becomes too low, then that could impact components controlled with oil pressure.
 
Yeah, I'd think there would be more VVT system issues with thinner oil vs thicker oil. If the oil becomes so thin (due to fuel dilution and/or shearing) and the oil pressure becomes too low, then that could impact components controlled with oil pressure.
It's not the oil pressure at the pump that applies to these actuators. As long as there is flow, there should be enough pressure to drive them. I don't know if the oil can be thin to the point that it leaks so much from the bearings that it can't make it all to the valves. I guess then the lubrication system would fail, but you would have more severe problems than the actuators if that ever happens.
 
It's not the oil pressure at the pump that applies to these actuators. As long as there is flow, there should be enough pressure to drive them. I don't know if the oil can be thin to the point that it leaks so much from the bearings that it can't make it all to the valves. I guess then the lubrication system would fail, but you would have more severe problems than the actuators if that ever happens.
It's ultimately the oil pressure at the pump that determines the oil pressure throughout the whole oiling system. But yeah, I get what you;e saying.
 
If the actuator works under pressure there is little difference for viscosity. Fluids are not compressible. Bearings have a pressure inflow and outflow and that is viscosity dependent. But bearings are self pumping the oil. So in a way if you look at the oil system as a whole there would be slightly less pressure with lower viscosity.
 
If the actuator works under pressure there is little difference for viscosity. Fluids are not compressible. Bearings have a pressure inflow and outflow and that is viscosity dependent. But bearings are self pumping the oil. So in a way if you look at the oil system as a whole there would be slightly less pressure with lower viscosity.
Yes, that's why the oil pressure readout on the dash goes down as the oil thins out, from heat or otherwise.

Even though fluids are not compressible, if something like the operation like VVT is dependent on the oil pressure, then at some point that system may not start working correctly if the pressure is way out of spec - more so on the low end than the high end IMO. If the VVT actuators are essentially "dead end" oil paths, then the oil viscosity will not matter, but the oil pressure inside the dead end actuator may matter. If the oil pump is putting out less pressure than required, regardless of the reason, then that would impact any oil pressure operated components.

BTW, there is also an oil pressure component to the total oil flow that journal bearings will flow. The total flow in the journal bearing is the natural bearing "self pumping" volume, plus the added flow from the supply pressure at the bearing. The same exact journal bearing will flow more oil if the oil supply is pressurized vs if the oil was supplied simply by gravity (ie, at zero oil pressure).
 
Yeah, I'd think there would be more VVT system issues with thinner oil vs thicker oil. If the oil becomes so thin (due to fuel dilution and/or shearing) and the oil pressure becomes too low, then that could impact components controlled with oil pressure.
If you look at the current SAE J300 vs the one before SAE 16 was added, you'll see that the minimum viscosity for SAE 16 is higher than the old minimum for SAE 20. That was done at manufacturer's request to address that exact issue.

Ed
 
Many Asian 4 cyl cars I've owned and driven over the past decade and a half utilising VVT have had a noticeable loss of low end torque with thicker oil, and also a loss of high rpm capability with thinner oils or running "too thin" an oil. Recently I just installed 10w30 in my Ford 2.0 D.I. engine, and I saw no loss of "around town lugging" performance or low rpm torque with the 10W30 as I had experienced in the past. I would guess the cam phaser system in this more modern and recent engine has been designed to deal with a wide viscosity range. Happy as a clam about that.
- Ken
 
The valvetrains on the Pentastars have had issues that seem to point to insufficient flow in the heads. But it could be just shoddy design of the rockers and/or adjusters. Our 2016 ticks for about a second on cold start. I was planning on going from 5w20 to 5w30 about now at 108k miles but am not so sure. I'm leaning towards a thin 30 like Valvoline FS.
Or a thicker 20
 
So have I and never had an issue. However 30 years ago we didn't have a wild stampede to small-displacement, Turbocharged, direct injection engines with low-tension piston rings and the resulting oil dilution issues. Both of our 2020 Honda CRV's will show 2.5% or more OD with thinning below grade at 2500 miles with the oil life monitor showing 50% life remaining using the recommended 0W-20. Honda has "supposedly" solved this issue, my UOA's prove (to me) that it's still a serious problem in many Hondas using the 1.5t engines. If I was content to resign myself to 2500 mile OCI's and the resulting costs I might have a long running engine. After a lot of research and discussion with people here on BITOG and my dealer and my Honda Certified Master Technician, I'm going to use 5W-30, interesting, because what he uses in his personal Honda. If the US market wasn't so welded to CAFE standards, Honda might recommend something other than the 0W-20 like they do in the same engine in other countries.

True, but I still follow manufacturer's recommendation for oil viscosity and filter changes in 2022.

Is there any empirical data to support that Honda 1.5LT engines in the USA using 0W-20 are wearing out quicker than the same engine overseas?
 
True, but I still follow manufacturer's recommendation for oil viscosity and filter changes in 2022.

Is there any empirical data to support that Honda 1.5LT engines in the USA using 0W-20 are wearing out quicker than the same engine overseas?
UOA's and common sense tell me what I need to make the rational decision to extend engine life. Oil that is thinned below grade at 2500 miles with the oil life monitor indicating 50% oil life remaining tells me that if I want a long life for my engine, Honda's algorithm doesn't work for everyone.
 
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