Can a civilian aircraft in distress land at a military airport?

[y_p_w]

Yes, trespass law is pretty well defined.

If you walk past a "no trespassing" sign, or cross a fence clearly designed to keep people out, then you have "been warned" already. There doesn't need to be a re-enter.

The question is - if you came from the air, in an emergency, there is no sign or fence in the sky? What would the judge infer? I think they would let it slide. Maybe I am wrong?

If it's a commercial pilot familiar with dealing with sensitive areas, I don't think they could just claim ignorance that "it looked like a safe place to land". Even general aviation pilots are supposed to know how to read maps that state where military bases and restricted areas are.

 

[SC Maintenance]

If it's a commercial pilot familiar with dealing with sensitive areas, I don't think they could just claim ignorance that "it looked like a safe place to land". Even general aviation pilots are supposed to know how to read maps that state where military bases and restricted areas are.

True. But hard to prove what someone knew or did not know, or could remember during a high stress emergency in a courtroom.

So if you have to land your plane in a secure area sounds like you better keep your mouth shut

 

[Propflux01]

Most all bases CONUS, yes. Area 51, No....NO NO NO.

 

[Capt W]

FYI, some military bases ( even in the US ) have special weapons areas, and they are guarded by armed personnel with orders to shoot anyone unauthorized who enters said areas.

Abject nonsense! The use of force - to include deadly force - is strictly outlined in Air Force Instructions (AFI). Even special security areas are governed by the same AFI and a use-of-force continuum. Nobody's getting shot unless the preconditions for the use of deadly force are met. Would a violator get rolled up in a violent manner? Most assuredly. Shot dead? Not likely.

But what do I know? Only 15 of my 25 years were in USAF Security Forces...to include nuclear weapons security.

And to the OP: Yes, a civilian aircraft in distress can use a military field if no other viable options exist. I've seen it happen 2-3 times. For a chuckle, look up Northwest flight 1152 from the summer of 2004. No emergency with that one, just lack of attention to detail.

 

[Exhaustgases]

You can fly any place you desire and land any place as well. With no problems. In your flying saucer/ UFO.

 

[Capt W]

At best they can detain you and turn you over to civilian authorities at the earliest convenience. Trespass? Do you really think any prosecutor would file that one, or any judge would find probable cause?

Your first part is not true as it's wholly contingent upon jurisdiction. Flightline areas on CONUS AF bases are under exclusive jurisdiction, meaning the USG owns and controls these areas - there's zero local or municipal oversight. Violators could be charged (but rarely are) under US Code, be prosecuted by government prosecutors, and would be handled within Magistrate Courts. Same would be true for trespassing on any part of the installation if it were under exclusive jurisdiction.

There are three basic types of jurisdiction for USAF bases: exclusive, concurrent, and proprietary. I've explained exclusive. Concurrent jurisdiction means both USG and state/local agencies share jurisdiction. Who handles what is worked out via memoranda of agreement. In my experience, the locals usually let us run with most issues, as most were just nuisance-type cases anyway. Proprietary jurisdiction means the government basically has renter's rights. Prosecutions - if any - were the primary responsibility of local agencies...with the exception of military members. We would always request jurisdiction for active duty members for UCMJ actions (and were usually granted jurisdiction in most cases). Civilians were always turned over to the locals.

And would any prosecutor file charges in Magistrate Court? If the JAG was power-tripping or a showboat the answer is a resounding yes. I won't name the base, but when I was operations officer at a large base in CA, we were frequented by hippie protesters at the main gate on a regular basis. They were annoying - and smelly - but generally never crossed the boundary. Our JAG (a lieutenant colonel) and my boss (a full colonel) used to love stirring the pot...often times goading a hippie or two into crossing the boundary. The JAG told me the courtroom experience was "good experience for the young lawyers." Every single case was thrown out, but we still kept at it. After about six months I got a new boss, and told him the best course of action would be to ignore the hippies (we had better things to do). He agreed, the JAG was furious, and common sense prevailed. They eventually went away as they had no more opportunity to create martyrs. But that JAG was freaking irate with me for the rest of my time at that base.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Exactly, land at any military base if you have no other choice ( life or death in flight emergency ).

Nice to hear from someone who actually knows what they are talking about versus people saying people will be shot or you will be arrested for just landing a civilian passenger jet in an extreme emergency.

I read about the NW flight that mistakenly landed at that base and all that happened was the pilots got interrogated which makes sense since they never told anyone they were landing there and had no emergency.

It's impossible they landed at the base, the crew never had any "charts" LOL

 

[y_p_w]

There are three basic types of jurisdiction for USAF bases: exclusive, concurrent, and proprietary. I've explained exclusive. Concurrent jurisdiction means both USG and state/local agencies share jurisdiction. Who handles what is worked out via memoranda of agreement. In my experience, the locals usually let us run with most issues, as most were just nuisance-type cases anyway. Proprietary jurisdiction means the government basically has renter's rights. Prosecutions - if any - were the primary responsibility of local agencies...with the exception of military members. We would always request jurisdiction for active duty members for UCMJ actions (and were usually granted jurisdiction in most cases). Civilians were always turned over to the locals.

I'm quite familiar with this as a fan of our national parks and other federal lands.

There's only a few details though. One in my state is that legally any kind of federal law enforcement is supposed to seek the permission of the sheriff and/or chief of police for the jurisdiction in question to enforce state and local laws. The only exception in my state's law is for National Park Service Rangers and they usually get permission. But they can enforce state laws using the Assimilative Crimes Act, which allows the feds to incorporate state laws as federal laws. I did recall one sheriff who rescinded the authority of US Forest Service officers to enforce state and local laws in his county. He wasn't too happy with what he considered overzelous enforcement and even harassment.

As far as magistrates go, if the case is big enough it goes to an Article III district court judge. Likely so if it involves a jury trial and absolutely if it's a felony.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Your first part is not true as it's wholly contingent upon jurisdiction. Flightline areas on CONUS AF bases are under exclusive jurisdiction, meaning the USG owns and controls these areas - there's zero local or municipal oversight

Yes, USG, but not US military. The US Military has no authority over civilians. They can detain them, but they must be turned over to a civilian law enforcement - FBI, DEA, etc, and tried by a civilian court, not under UCMJ. Could be a federal, state, whatever, but it will not be the military. All consitutional rights apply. They can not be tortured, or whacked in the head with the but of a rifle, and questioned without miranda, etc.

So, the question is - is a federal prosecutor - who's entire goal in the world to climb the political soap-box, going to take the time to file charges on this, and deal with the media circus? My guess is they would not.

 

[Wheel]

I don't know the exact outcome, but this happened when I was a little kid at Westover AFB (1969-70). SAC had B52's ready to go there 24/7. A small plane had electrical issues and ended up landing there, rather than the adjacent civilian base. B-52's got aloft, and the pilot was tailed in by fighters. There was a huge array of airmen and equipment greeting the plane and pilot on the ground. It did not appear that it was going to be a fun day for the pilot.

 

[Capt W]

Ah...I misunderstood your specific question a bit. You're overall correct with regard to prosecution. We as military police could detain and even cite (US Magistrate Citation/DD Form 1805); JAG personnel can prosecute offenses under US Code in Mag Court as reps of "the government" if the offense occurred on executive jurisdiction soil...but I've only seen this for very minor offenses and was generally considered bad form.

In the OP's example, violators would always be turned over to the FBI for final disposition. And you're right...a federal prosecutor would never touch such a case...unless there was an associated crime (e.g., drugs/illegal weapons/human smuggling).

 

[y_p_w]

Yes, USG, but not US military. The US Military has no authority over civilians. They can detain them, but they must be turned over to a civilian law enforcement - FBI, DEA, etc, and tried by a civilian court, not under UCMJ. Could be a federal, state, whatever, but it will not be the military. All consitutional rights apply. They can not be tortured, or whacked in the head with the but of a rifle, and questioned without miranda, etc.

So, the question is - is a federal prosecutor - who's entire goal in the world to climb the political soap-box, going to take the time to file charges on this, and deal with the media circus? My guess is they would not.

The DoD does have what are legally considered civilian law enforcement agencies. Some even guard bases. There are a lot of civilian workers on military bases.

https://afciviliancareers.com/law/
https://www.army.mil/article/190762..._civilian_police_officers_for_world_wide_duty

 

[y_p_w]

Ah...I misunderstood your specific question a bit. You're overall correct with regard to prosecution. We as military police could detain and even cite (US Magistrate Citation/DD Form 1805); JAG personnel can prosecute offenses under US Code in Mag Court as reps of "the government" if the offense occurred on executive jurisdiction soil...but I've only seen this for very minor offenses and was generally considered bad form.

In the OP's example, violators would always be turned over to the FBI for final disposition. And you're right...a federal prosecutor would never touch such a case...unless there was an associated crime (e.g., drugs/illegal weapons/human smuggling).

My reading is that currently there would likely be federal civilian police available on a base. Like Dept of Army Civilian Police, Dept of the Air Force Police, or Dept of Navy Police. This mentions 11 Dept of the Air Force Police officers at Dover AFB working alongside military security.

https://www.dover.af.mil/News/Article/2091468/civilian-defenders-serve-alongside-sf-airmen/

The US Coast Guard seems to have its own little niche where they’re allowed to arrest civilians.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The DoD does have what are legally considered civilian law enforcement agencies. Some even guard bases. There are a lot of civilian workers on military bases.

https://afciviliancareers.com/law/
https://www.army.mil/article/190762..._civilian_police_officers_for_world_wide_duty

I have been a civilian contractor on base, including in restricted areas where I had an armed escort that had to go everywhere with me, including the head. They were not allowed to make chit chat even - it was yes sir, no sir, this way sir. Thankfully my current employer has no interest in government work.

Savannah river project (where they dis-assemble old Nukes) has their own special police force also. But if your arrested you will be turned over to normal federal LEO. For off-shore bases - no idea. It would make sense to have more authority. But not in USA.

A civilian cannot be tried under UCMJ - in the USA not at least. Off-shore different rules possibly.

 

[y_p_w]

I have been a civilian contractor on base, including in restricted areas where I had an armed escort that had to go everywhere with me, including the head. They were not allowed to make chit chat even - it was yes sir, no sir, this way sir. Thankfully my current employer has no interest in government work.

Savannah river project (where they dis-assemble old Nukes) has their own special police force also. But if your arrested you will be turned over to normal federal LEO. For off-shore bases - no idea. It would make sense to have more authority. But not in USA.

A civilian cannot be tried under UCMJ - in the USA not at least. Off-shore different rules possibly.

As far as I can tell, a lot of the federal civilian police under the DoD has been pretty recent. But there are plenty of federal laws that could be applied, as well as state laws.

 

[SC Maintenance]

As far as I can tell, a lot of the federal civilian police under the DoD has been pretty recent. But there are plenty of federal laws that could be applied, as well as state laws.

Yes, federal laws. But not UCMJ.

The FBI, DEA, etc can make arrests and prosecute crimes anywhere in the USA. If its a federal crime.

 

[y_p_w]

Yes, federal laws. But not UCMJ.

The FBI, DEA, etc can make arrests and prosecute crimes anywhere in the USA. If its a federal crime.

They tend to arrest for a lot of state crimes with the permission of local law enforcement though.

 

[SC Maintenance]

They tend to arrest for a lot of state crimes with the permission of local law enforcement though.

Yes, but your arguing over arrest - which I never contested. If you land in a secured area you will no doubt be under arrest, or at minimum detained, by someone. But the detention will be "short" - 72 hours I believe is max - but it will likely be less. In fact its very likely they would have no holding area suitable to meet the requirements of a civilian, and would likely turn you over to civilian police as soon as possible.

Once detained, all civilian rights apply. Habeus Corpus, Miranda, etc.

But they have a fairly short period of time were someone other than the police actually have to charge you with a crime, or let you go - ie a federal or local prosecutor.

Even if you are charged, then your in the control of a judge. Good luck finding a judge agreeing to probable cause in this example. Which is why it would never get there.

 

[y_p_w]

Yes, but your arguing over arrest - which I never contested. If you land in a secured area you will no doubt be under arrest, or at minimum detained, by someone. But the detention will be "short" - 72 hours I believe is max - but it will likely be less. In fact its very likely they would have no holding area suitable to meet the requirements of a civilian, and would likely turn you over to civilian police as soon as possible.

Once detained, all civilian rights apply. Habeus Corpus, Miranda, etc.

But they have a fairly short period of time were someone other than the police actually have to charge you with a crime, or let you go - ie a federal or local prosecutor.

Even if you are charged, then your in the control of a judge. Good luck finding a judge agreeing to probable cause in this example. Which is why it would never get there.

What I’m saying is that most bases have federal civilian police now. The feds typically also have arrangements with county jails to hold federal inmates where there aren’t federal detention centers.

The only major base close to me is Travis AFB. I’m sure they have Dept of the Air Force Police. The closest federal courts are in Sacramento or Oakland. Can’t find any reports of arrests on base, but there are of protests trying to blockade the base, and apparently that meant arrests by local police since it was technically off base.

Maybe they’d be a nuisance, but I don’t think there’s a lack of civilian personnel to arrest civilians and prosecute them for trespassing.

 

[SC Maintenance]

What I’m saying is that most bases have federal civilian police now. The feds typically also have arrangements with county jails to hold federal inmates where there aren’t federal detention centers.

The only major base close to me is Travis AFB. I’m sure they have Dept of the Air Force Police. The closest federal courts are in Sacramento or Oakland. Can’t find any reports of arrests on base, but there are of protests trying to blockade the base, and apparently that meant arrests by local police since it was technically off base.

Maybe they’d be a nuisance, but I don’t think there’s a lack of civilian personnel to arrest civilians and prosecute them for trespassing.

Your mixing things up.

Yes, as I said, you would undoubtedly be detained, or maybe even arrested. They need to determine who you are, at minimum.

If you are being arrested - for what? Trespass? OK, I am now under arrest for trespass. I am booked somewhere. Wherever. And held. Clock is ticking.

Now what. A prosecutor (very separate from the police) must file a charge (unlikely). If there dumb enough you immediately request a probable cause hearing. No judge would find probable cause. The plane was falling out of the sky. Would be over-turned on appeal if he did.

These are smart busy people. There not going to do this. They have real criminals to contend with.

This thread is crazy.