Can a civilian aircraft in distress land at a military airport?

[Owen Lucas]

Lets say engine stops or some other emergency and the military installation is the only runway you can land at. Is this forbidden? Should you be searching for an empty road or field instead?

What would be the consequences? Lose your plane and or license?

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Yes.

I will lose my licence if I don't get the airplane on the ground ASAP in certain situations and not land at the closest airport where a safe landing can be made.

If I have smoke in the plane, I will be landing right away.

At least I will be alive if I go to jail ( won't happen ...unless in China ) and everyone on board will be alive.

 

[JimPghPA]

FYI, some military bases ( even in the US ) have special weapons areas, and they are guarded by armed personnel with orders to shoot anyone unauthorized who enters said areas. So, if one were ever to land at a military airport without communications, it would be wise to stay in the aircraft with hands on head if posable until told what to do, or if you had to leave the aircraft, lay on the ground with hands on head when safely away.

I don't have first hand knoledge of all the rules at those locations, but do know civilian heating and air-conditioning people who were told that if they went to a certain section while at a military airport, the guards had orders to shoot.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

FYI, some military bases ( even in the US ) have special weapons areas, and they are guarded by armed personnel with orders to shoot anyone unauthorized who enters said areas. So, if one were ever to land at a military airport without communications, it would be wise to stay in the aircraft with hands on head if posable until told what to do, or if you had to leave the aircraft, lay on the ground with hands on head when safely away.

I don't have first hand knoledge of all the rules at those locations, but do know civilian heating and air-conditioning people who were told that if they went to a certain section while at a military airport, the guards had orders to shoot.

ATC will be notifying any AF base that an aircraft has declared and emergency and is coming in to land.

It won’t be a total surprise.

It would have to be a serious emergency for me to land when told it’s not authorized but I would do it anyways if passenger safety was involved.

I can’t see any first world country military having a problem with that and saying no.

 

[rstcso]

I wouldn't hesitate to land at a military installation. As stated above, ATC should have coordinated with the installation and you'll have a personal escort upon arrival. I can't see the FAA even slapping someone on the wrist for doing so and might be used in training others. Those hesitating to call an emergency are often who we hear about in the local news, and not in a good way. Good controllers will declare an emergency for a pilot when they sense something is wrong, helping take some decision making load off a pilot in distress so they can focus on flying their plane, e.g. "level your wings and keep flying present heading", "make a slow right turn and I'll tell you when to stop", etc.

 

[Astro14]

ATC will be notifying any AF base that an aircraft has declared and emergency and is coming in to land.

It won’t be a total surprise.

It would have to be a serious emergency for me to land when told it’s not authorized but I would do it anyways if passenger safety was involved.

I can’t see any first world country military having a problem with that and saying no.

You live in a country without special weapons and/or highly classified operations.

There are places where that emergency declaration will not grant you immunity from the consequences of landing at that base though the heads up will mitigate some of the negative consequences.

I’m quite serious.

You do what you think you need to do, but there will be consequences at those few installations.

Placed under arrest, detained and debriefed.

An F-14 crew had a hydraulic failure and landed at one of those places. I’m omitting dates and location out of concern for OPSEC. They had been briefed not to land there but their flight manual said “land as soon as possible”.

They were detained at gunpoint.

When they were released, days later, they deeply regretted playing the “emergency declaration” card. It did not go well for them, and they had security clearance.

It took two weeks for the installation to be sufficiently sanitized to allow maintenance crews access to fix the airplane and fly it out. They, too, were carefully watched and debriefed.

This place won’t have charts that you could use anyway, so it’s unlikely you would ever have the opportunity to make that mistake.

But landing there would be a mistake, and you would most certainly experience “a problem”.

 

[Dave Hess]

Yes.

They need to declare an emergency or crash cause they won’t make it to a civilian / GA airport.

 

[Astro14]

I wouldn't hesitate to land at a military installation. As stated above, ATC should have coordinated with the installation and you'll have a personal escort upon arrival. I can't see the FAA even slapping someone on the wrist for doing so and might be used in training others. Those hesitating to call an emergency are often who we hear about in the local news, and not in a good way. Good controllers will declare an emergency for a pilot when they sense something is wrong, helping take some decision making load off a pilot in distress so they can focus on flying their plane, e.g. "level your wings and keep flying present heading", "make a slow right turn and I'll tell you when to stop", etc.

You’re naive.

It won’t be the FAA that “slaps” you if you land at a place where you’re not authorized because of the security level of the installation.

It will be the security forces pointing their rifles at you while they command you to get on the ground.

Failure to comply with that instruction will not go well.

Those rifles are loaded. Those forces are authorized to use lethal force.

Now, not all installations operate at that level of security, however, some do.

If you were wise enough to comply with their instructions, then at the very least, you’re going to spend some very uncomfortable time while you and they have a talk.

This isn’t TV, this isn’t the movies, this is real life.

I had a sailor who stepped out out of his working space into the hanger bay when weapons were being moved.

Despite announcements, and despite directions from the Marine Security forces aboard the ship to return to his space, he wanted to “see what was going on”.

While he was mouthing off to the marine in front of him, a marine came up behind him, put a rifle butt to the back of his neck, and had him on the ground in a split second.

Cuffed. Hauled off. Thrown in the brig.

This was a sailor assigned to the same ship, mind you.

So, as a new pilot, let me caution you, that not all “military installations“ are the same. If you have a problem, talk to the tower, if they clear you to land, that’s great.

If they don’t answer, or they don’t clear you, then you are about to have “a problem“.

One example of this is P-56 in Washington DC.

I don’t care what’s wrong with your airplane, you are better off crashing, than approaching that prohibited area.

 

[Astro14]

Lets say engine stops or some other emergency and the military installation is the only runway you can land at. Is this forbidden? Should you be searching for an empty road or field instead?

What would be the consequences? Lose your plane and or license?

Now that I’ve had a chance to reply to some of the inaccurate statements, yes, under certain circumstances, you can land at a military base.

Many military bases are “Joint use“. For example, Colorado Springs, is both a civilian field and an Air Force Base.

Westover Air Force Base in Massachusetts is purely military, but little airplanes fly in and out of their airspace all the time. The controllers are happy to accommodate them.

But this is not true of every military base, or every government installation. Some are highly classified, some are highly restricted.

The answer to your question then, is “it depends“. Almost every Air Force Base in the United States is able to handle a civilian airliner. The ramps and taxiways are big enough, and constructed for heavy transports and bombers.

No problem getting your airplane in there.

But it is not always a facilities question. It depends who is there and what they are doing.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

You live in a country without special weapons and/or highly classified operations.

There are places where that emergency declaration will not grant you immunity from the consequences of landing at that base though the heads up will mitigate some of the negative consequences.

I’m quite serious.

You do what you think you need to do, but there will be consequences at those few installations.

Placed under arrest, detained and debriefed.

An F-14 crew had a hydraulic failure and landed at one of those places. I’m omitting dates and location out of concern for OPSEC. They had been briefed not to land there but their flight manual said “land as soon as possible”.

They were detained at gunpoint.

When they were released, days later, they deeply regretted playing the “emergency declaration” card. It did not go well for them, and they had security clearance.

It took two weeks for the installation to be sufficiently sanitized to allow maintenance crews access to fix the airplane and fly it out. They, too, were carefully watched and debriefed.

This place won’t have charts that you could use anyway, so it’s unlikely you would ever have the opportunity to make that mistake.

But landing there would be a mistake, and you would most certainly experience “a problem”.

Well aware of that.

But if I am flying and some extreme emergency requires an immediate landing, and the closest airport is a military airport, I am going to land.

I am o.k going to jail or having guns pointed at me and will deal with the consequences later.

Swiss air 111 thought they were doing the right thing delaying the landing and we know how that turned out. They are all dead.

I am talking about an extreme, life or death emergency.

If I was a check pilot and doing an upgrade evaluation on a pilot upgrading to CA and they decided they didn't want to get in trouble and overflew a military installation , I would fail them.

A country should be protecting people, not punishing them for trying to save lives.

 

[Astro14]

Well aware of that.

But if I am flying and some extreme emergency requires an immediate landing, and the closest airport is a military airport, I am going to land.

I am o.k going to jail or having guns pointed at me and will deal with the consequences later.

Swiss air 111 thought they were doing the right thing delaying the landing and we know how that turned out. They are all dead.

I am talking about an extreme, life or death emergency.

Again, not true at every facility, but it is true at some.

Choose wisely.

Swiss Air 111 didn’t delay the landing by much at all, that’s a common misconception.

They turned towards Halifax once they had a confirmed fire, and they were flying well above 250, closer to 300, below 10,000 feet once they realized the severity of the situation.

It’s pretty common to criticize Swiss Air 111 crew for delaying the landing, but they didn’t delay the landing once they realized what was actually going on. Initially, it was a weird smell.

From weird smell to fatal crash a few miles short of the runway was 13 minutes.

They initially requested vectors to jettison fuel, but once they realize the severity of the fire, they pointed directly at the field and were flying well over 300 kn to get there.

We have the benefit of hindsight, we know now how serious it was, they did not, not initially.

It’s a long report, but well worth reading.

https://www.tsb.gc.ca/sites/default/files/rapports-reports/aviation/A98H0003/eng/a98h0003.pdf

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Again, not true at every facility, but it is true at some.

Choose wisely.

Swiss Air 111 didn’t delay the landing by much at all, that’s a common misconception.

They turned towards Halifax once they had a confirmed fire, and they were flying well above 250, closer to 300, below 10,000 feet once they realized the severity of the situation.

It’s pretty common to criticize Swiss Air 111 crew for delaying the landing, but they didn’t delay the landing once they realized what was actually going on. Initially, it was a weird smell.

From weird smell to fatal crash a few miles short of the runway was 13 minutes.

They initially requested vectors to jettison fuel, but once they realize the severity of the fire, they pointed directly at the field and were flying well over 300 kn to get there.

We have the benefit of hindsight, we know now how serious it was, they did not, not initially.

It’s a long report, but well worth reading.

https://www.tsb.gc.ca/sites/default/files/rapports-reports/aviation/A98H0003/eng/a98h0003.pdf

It happened in Canada, I already read it. I knew a guy who analyzed the data with the TSB.

More later on SW 111 but the main point is we are supposed to learn from other pilots mistakes ( or bad policies/checklists ), not repeat them. Flying over airports when you need to land ( extreme emergency ) would be repeating that mistake.

Any pilot that doesn’t land ASAP when required because they are afraid of getting in trouble is not choosing wisely.

More later tonight about SW111.

Mother’s Day dinner.

https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/medias-media/fiches-facts/A98H0003/sum_a98h0003.html

 

[AZjeff]

@Astro14, what would happen if you crashed and destroyed your disabled military jet rather than land at a highly restricted base? (Assuming you ejected and survived.) Would landing and saving a $100 million dollar jet cut any slack? Of course you could crash it on the base attempting a landing. Off original subject but you brought up how serious security is at some bases. Thanks

Would you crash your airliner in the desert rather than land at Area 51?

Not being silly, this is something civilians have no knowledge of at all..

 

[97prizm]

Lets say engine stops or some other emergency and the military installation is the only runway you can land at. Is this forbidden? Should you be searching for an empty road or field instead?

What would be the consequences? Lose your plane and or license?

A YouTube video highlighted this not too long ago I'll have to dig for it. A pilot in South Korea near one of the air force bases radioed with a mechanical issue (or possibly low fuel) they vectored him in and had him park in a separate area.

 

[Hohn]

You’re naive.

It won’t be the FAA that “slaps” you if you land at a place where you’re not authorized because of the security level of the installation.

It will be the security forces pointing their rifles at you while they command you to get on the ground.

Failure to comply with that instruction will not go well.

Those rifles are loaded. Those forces are authorized to use lethal force.

Now, not all installations operate at that level of security, however, some do.

If you were wise enough to comply with their instructions, then at the very least, you’re going to spend some very uncomfortable time while you and they have a talk.

This isn’t TV, this isn’t the movies, this is real life.

I had a sailor who stepped out out of his working space into the hanger bay when weapons were being moved.

Despite announcements, and despite directions from the Marine Security forces aboard the ship to return to his space, he wanted to “see what was going on”.

While he was mouthing off to the marine in front of him, a marine came up behind him, put a rifle butt to the back of his neck, and had him on the ground in a split second.

Cuffed. Hauled off. Thrown in the brig.

This was a sailor assigned to the same ship, mind you.

So, as a new pilot, let me caution you, that not all “military installations“ are the same. If you have a problem, talk to the tower, if they clear you to land, that’s great.

If they don’t answer, or they don’t clear you, then you are about to have “a problem“.

One example of this is P-56 in Washington DC.

I don’t care what’s wrong with your airplane, you are better off crashing, than approaching that prohibited area.

Mess with security at your peril.

I was stationed at Dyess AFB as a B1-B fuel system mechanic. As such, we frequently worked in hangars with controlled access (5105, 5110, etc if you know the base)

One time, myself and a couple other guys saw that the red rope was down on the ground and not strung up. I figured it wasn’t a secured area, so instead of going around to the ECP, we just walked over the rope on the ground.

We got back to the office, updated the log book and started to think about a round of pinochle.


About 3 minutes later, I’m face against the chainlink with my legs crossed and a loaded M16 pointed at me as another SF troop pats me down.

And I’m IN UNIFORM WITH A BADGE DISPLAYED.

Myself and the other airmen were arrested and hauled off the cop shop where our supervisor had to come bail us out.

We got a bit of a talking to when we got back to the office.

 

[fdcg27]

In a dire emergency, like actual fire or fuel exhaustion, I would think the PIC would put the plane down on the nearest suitable stretch of concrete. While with a twin the instruction might be land at nearest suitable airport in the event that an engine is lost, there is a lot of wiggle room in that, like as much as six hours+ on one engine allowed in planning a flight for a properly qualified and maintained A350.
Like when the AC 767 was landed on a disused dragstrip after being run out of fuel due to confusion in the units used between the crew and the fuelers, or the Air Transit A330 that glided to a landing in the Azores after losing all of its fuel through a defective vent valve, with the crew facilitating this by transferring fuel from the heavy side to the one that was light, because it was venting off the fuel.
If the airplane is run out of fuel for any reason or has actual fire, the PIC must land it ASAP, consequences after that not really that important.
I myself would rather have a rifle pointed at my head while living than to have my remains gathered into a bag after my traumatic demise.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

The pilots noticed smoke in the cockpit 2 minutes after noticing an unusual smell and waited two additional minutes before diverting to Halifax. There were 66 track miles from Halifax when they first saw smoke visible. They decided to put their oxygen mask on.

Rather than land ASAP realizing this, they started dumping fuel and lost the auto pilot ( they had to know it was related to the smell/smoke previously noticed ) and asked to fly a block altitude. 1 minute later, they finally declared a Mayday. That was 10 minutes after they first saw brief smoke in the cockpit.

From there he time they lost the autopilot and eventually declared the Mayday, they flew further , not closer, to the airport.

Sources who have heard the CVR said there was disagreement between the FO and CA about following procedures ( fuel dump, air conditioning smoke ) and the FO wanted to land ASAP.

Even back when this accident happened, regardless what he checklist said , it’s always the Captains prerogative to land ASAP.

Sorry, they should have diverted as soon as they saw smoke and landed overweight.

The weather was good, they didn’t even need the approach charts for the LOC BC as ATC could have cleared them down to the MSA and follow the PAPI once on final.

They saw smoke 66 miles out, not just when dumping fuel.

They decided to declare the mayday when fire started in the cockpit and they started losing systems but it was too late by then.

https://www.tampabay.com/archive/1999/01/22/before-crash-swissair-pilots-disagreed-over-what-to-do/

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Flight-path-of-Swissair-Flight-111-Taken-from-13_fig1_224087464

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Swissair-111-trajectory-reconstruction_fig5_280853422

 

[SC Maintenance]

Joint base Charleston (Air Force and Navy) share two runways with the civilian Charleston Airport.

I do not know the rules, but our military is controlled by elected civilian leadership. If someone landed a plane in distress on a military runway and then complied with all commands while it was determined they were not a threat, I would have a giant issue as a citizen if any harm came to them while in Military control. In fact as a taxpayer, I would expect the military to render all needed aid, because that is what decent people do. "We the people" are in charge here. Its what differentiates us from our enemies.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Folks,

Last word on this stuff from me.

If you’re flying with me as a passenger and some extreme emergency requires an immediate landing and we just happen to be close to Area 51. I am going to land at Area 51 not crash land.

If the aliens don’t like it, too bad.

I am not worried about security issues, I am concerned about getting the plane on the ground as quick as possible if required.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Joint base Charleston (Air Force and Navy) share two runways with the civilian Charleston Airport.

I do not know the rules, but our military is controlled by elected civilian leadership. If someone landed a plane in distress on a military runway and then complied with all commands while it was determined they were not a threat, I would have a giant issue as a citizen if any harm came to them while in Military control. In fact as a taxpayer, I would expect the military to render all needed aid, because that is what decent people do. "We the people" are in charge here. It’s what differentiates us from our enemies.

Exactly, they are ruled by civilian elected politicians who won’t put up with airline pilots being locked up or guns pointed at them , and passengers, for simply using their brains and doing what’s required to keep citizens safe who happen to be on that flight.

If Air Force One can land anywhere in an emergency, so too can hundreds of patriotic citizens in a civilian passenger plane when dealing with an extreme emergency.

Choose wisely before thinking about pointing guns or locking the Captain up.

Now if in China, good luck.