Called Mobil, they lying to me about group IV?

[1point8T_350AWH]

Just called Mobil customer service the other night and asked if they went groupIII w/additives and the guy I spoke to said very clearly that the groupIII thing is a rumor, and ALL of thier synthetic oils are pure groupIV. Is he flat out lying??

I need to know because I run my non turbo cars (F150/F-probe) 20K per oil change(filter+quart @ 10K) and I am not going to use M1 anymore if they are not group 4. Does anyone have any definitive evidence on this change????

If it is true, is Amsoil my only choice now??????

And I will be #@$%! if they lied because I just bought 5q for my Audi…

 

[fred0803]

No one knows.

 

[PT1]

I would definitely NOT run M-1 for that long of an OCI even if it was a GPIV. The only oil I know that will go that far without trouble is Amsoil....and I am not an Amsoil user but have friends who use it that long. I'd never go past 8k on M-1.

 

[Eddie]

Unless you are an easy 90% + highway driver I would not go over 12,000 miles on any oil. Seen many UOA on Mobil 1 and it will go the 12,000 easy for the normal driver. JMO

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I would like to see your 20K used oil analysis.

How about it?

 

[Blue99]

Gotta agree 110% with Triple on this, if you are running 20K OCI's on your vehicles, verify the performance with UOA's to check insoluables, fuel loading and remaining TBN.

BTW, probably even more important than base oil rumors, where is the evidence that the performance of M1 oils has declined?

 

[1point8T_350AWH]

I first got my 93' probe w/122K and was running like #@$%!, I had to take the valve cover off. It was just an intake gasket, but I got a good look at the nasty cruddy #@$%! inside the top of the engine. On regular oil the engine was noisy and clacked after about 500-750 miles. Thought it was just the age and mileage of the vehicle but when I switched to M1 the noise was gone.

I then ran my probe for aprox 20K on one oil change w/M1 synth and a good M1 filter, basically drove it one year without touching it, and I burned out about 2 quarts, replaced em and the motor made no noise, ever, it ran smooth as silk.

Then I blew out a spark plug @155K and had to remove the VC to insert a helicoil, and the motor actually looked cleaner then it did when I removed the VC the first time. The car now has 180K (25K on the oil in it) and its still quiet and smooth with the same compression I bought it with. Fueleconomy.gov lists my car MPG at 26c33h I have been averaging 38c -5sp 4cyl. I will send a sample to Blackstone when I get around to changing it next and see what they say. I am confident in M1.

 

[buster]

The base stock blend will vary from grade to grade. Some are all PAO/V, some use Group III+/IV and V. It all depends. You can't just assume that the base being maj. Grp III means you can't go far.

Ask yourself what specs does the oil actually meet:

ACEA A3
ACEA A1/B5
TBN
HT-06 etc.

You won't find another oil that meets more specs than M1. However, use oil analysis to dictate drain intervals, NOT the base oil or additves. You are not a formulator so it's meaningless to assume things you don't fully understand.

 

[buster]

The base stock blend will vary from grade to grade. Some are all PAO/V, some use Group III+/IV and V. It all depends. You can't just assume that the base being maj. Grp III means you can't go far.

Ask yourself what specs does the oil actually meet:

ACEA A3
ACEA A1/B5
TBN
HT-06 etc.

You won't find another oil that meets more specs than M1. However, use oil analysis to dictate drain intervals, NOT the base oil or additves. You are not a formulator so it's meaningless to assume things you don't fully understand.

 

[LouDawg]

I got to thinking (dangerous). IF they changed to GIII, do they have to notify API/ILSAC/etc. and requalify to retain their certs? Or are they grandfathered in, or is there a period of years between updates within which they can pretty much do whatever they want?

Just curious.

 

[jonny-b]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you, buster. I guess there are several special oils that outperforms Mobil1. Here is one of them:

API Service SJ Warranty Requirements for new 1997 Model Cars, Vans & Trucks
API Service SL Warranty Requirements for new 2001 Model Cars, Vans & Trucks
API Service SM Warranty Requirements for new 2005 Model Cars, Vans & Trucks
API Service CG-4, CF-2, CF-4, CF Warranty Requirements for Heavy Duty Diesel Engines
API Service CH-4 Warranty Requirements for new 1998 Low Emission Heavy Duty Diesels
API Service CI-4 Warranty Requirements for new 2002 Low Emission Heavy Duty Diesels with EGR.
Global DHD-1 performance specification for Heavy Duty Diesel Service according to International specifications
Cummins performance specification 20076 (also called CH-4 plus or CH-4+)
Mack EO-M, EO-M PLUS, EO-L, EO-L PLUS & EO-K/2 Performance Specifications
Quadruple Cummins NTC-400 performance
Caterpillar 10 TBN requirements
Detroit Diesel 7SE 270
Exceeds the requirements of MIL-L-22851C (U.S. Military)
ACEA ES-99 European Specifications for Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil
ACEA B4-98 European Specifications for Light Duty High Speed Diesel Engine Oil
ACEA A3-98 European Specification for Gasoline Engine Oil
CCMC PD-2 for High Performance Automotive Diesel Engines
CCMC G-5 & D-5
ILSAC GF-1, GF-2, GF-3 & GF-4
SAE 5W-50 rating allows for All-Season & All-Climate universal use in all engines
ISO 100 Viscosity rating for industrial applications

 

[1point8T_350AWH]

Lau makes a good point…

As for the group 3/4/5 thing, from what I understand is that g4 and g3 are very different when it comes to sludge issues and overall better resilience.

And lets face it, M1 rules, BUT if they are group 3 then I am not paying top dollar for it anymore, I will just go cheaper like PP and change it more, or go balls out on Amsoil. Also Audi of America has told me not to use group 3 in my AEB 1.8T or it will sludge up.

 

[1point8T_350AWH]

jonny-b,

not sure what oil your refering to.

Amsoil is the best oil out there but price vs. performance M1 is usually the winner.

 

[SargeGTO]

Quote:

---

Just called Mobil customer service the other night and asked if they went groupIII w/additives and the guy I spoke to said very clearly that the groupIII thing is a rumor, and ALL of thier synthetic oils are pure groupIV. Is he flat out lying??

I need to know because I run my non turbo cars (F150/F-probe) 20K per oil change(filter+quart @ 10K) and I am not going to use M1 anymore if they are not group 4. Does anyone have any definitive evidence on this change????

If it is true, is Amsoil my only choice now??????

And I will be #@$%! if they lied because I just bought 5q for my Audi…

---

"The Guy" just told you what he had been told. Doesnt make it right nor wrong. Go by UOA's and forget about marketing posture.

 

[jonny-b]

1point8T_350AWH, I am referring to Synlube.
You can compare their specification to Mobil1(and Amsoil).

 

[TimVipond]

Johnny, I'll see your 30 specs and raise you 5.

for diesel engines and
other applications requiring any of the listed worldwide
specifications and gasoline engines requiring API SL, SJ,
SH... or ACEA A3.
• API CI-4+/CH-4/CG-4/SL • API CF/CE/CD/CC
• API CF-2/CD-II • Global DHD-1 • ACEA A3/B3, E2,
E3, E5 • JASO DH-1 • Mack EO-N Premium Plus ’03
• Detroit Diesel Power Guard 93K214
• Caterpillar ECF-1 • Cummins CES 20076/20077/20078
(current), 20071/20072 (older) • Volvo VDS3/VDS2
• Mercedes Benz 228.1/228.3/229.1 • MAN 3275
• MTU Type 1 • MIL-PRF-2104G

 

[BrianWC]

Quote:

---

jonny-b,

not sure what oil your refering to.

Amsoil is the best oil out there but price vs. performance M1 is usually the winner.

---

Group III and a good addy pack is all you need to waste on a 93 Probe. My 94 Probe got nothing but Valvoline 10W30 at 3-7k intervals and I sincerely WISH it would have caused problems. But alas, when I traded it at 155k miles, it was sparkly clean inside. I got tired of the #@$%! Ford paint job and getting shocked every time I touched the door handle was a bummer as well. Good car overall, lotsa trunk space and a good ride but just always felt like an appliance.

 

[Steve S]

Quote:

---

jonny-b,

not sure what oil your refering to.

Amsoil is the best oil out there but price vs. performance M1 is usually the winner.

---

What makes Amsoil better than M1? What proof do you have to back the statement other than Amsoil literature?

 

[TimVipond]

I think Mobil 1 is trying to be like Amsoil. They seem to try to copy alot of their ideas. Reminds me of the saying "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." Maybe it should be renamed as Mobil 2?

Amsoil - First to develop an API-rated 100 percent synthetic motor oil. Mobil 1 did it a few years later.
Amsoil - First to introduce the concept of "extended drain intervals" with a recommended 25,000-mile/1-year drain interval. Mobil 1 did it a few years later.
Amsoil - First U.S. company to utilize the NOACK volatility test as a standard of performance excellence. Mobil 1 did it a few years later.
Amsoil - First to produce synthetic motor oils for diesel engines, racing engines, turbo and marine engines. Mobil 1 did it a few years later.
Amsoil - First to introduce synthetic oils that legitimately contribute to improving fuel efficiency. Mobil 1 did it a few years later.
Amsoil - First to manufacture synthetic gear lube for automotive use. Mobil 1 did it a few years later.
Amsoil - First to manufacture a 100:1 pre-mix synthetic 2-cycle oil. Mobil 1 hasn't figured this one out yet?
Amsoil - First to manufacture a synthetic automatic transmission fluid for automotive use. Mobil 1 did it a few years later.

 

[buster]

Tim, synthetics existed before 1972. Amsoil used to be a diester based oil but followed Mobil's lead and went to PAO/Ester.(cheaper than using mostly ester base oil) They now use the same additive chemistry (API SM) Mobil has been using for over 3 years. Not sure where you have been. Nevertheless, Amsoil does have a good list of "Firsts" as you mentioned.