CAFE has Little to do with Motor Oil Viscosity Use

[mechtech2]

I don`t understand the easier starting thing. My car starts the exact same whether I`m using 20W50 or 5W30.

"Startup wear" etc is all liberal government CAFE propaganda. It simply doesn`t exist.]
[From Dave 1251]

1. Your car does not start the exact same with those 2 highly disparate oils. Neither does anyone else's. Why say such nonsense?
2. There is no connection to CAFE and start up wear 'propaganda'.
Before CAFE existed, start up and cold engine oil problems were well noted. Decades before. Oil flow is good for engines, and start up and cold running can have very poor oil flow with thick oils. Everybody knew that.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: AEHaas

Somehow I doubt...
It just makes no sense to me...
I believe...
I also think...

aehaas


How about some facts?

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: AEHaas
Why do you think Chevy and others are still using 30 grade oils and possibly ? giving up millions in CAFE fees? I do not understand.

Also, Honda and Toyota have a much higher MPG average as their cars are smaller on the average (compared to Ford or Chevy). Yet they are working on a 10 grade oil? Is Honda paying huge fees that a 0.2 percent increase in MPG is needed. I do not understand.

aehaas


If GM has been meeting CAFE requirements without the need to resort to 20-weight oil, that's a plus on their side in my book. That gives them the option of going to 20-weight when CAFE ratchets down again in the next couple of years.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
I don`t understand the easier starting thing. My car starts the exact same whether I`m using 20W50 or 5W30.

"Startup wear" etc is all liberal government CAFE propaganda. It simply doesn`t exist.]
[From Dave 1251]

1. Your car does not start the exact same with those 2 highly disparate oils. Neither does anyone else's. Why say such nonsense?
2. There is no connection to CAFE and start up wear 'propaganda'.
Before CAFE existed, start up and cold engine oil problems were well noted. Decades before. Oil flow is good for engines, and start up and cold running can have very poor oil flow with thick oils. Everybody knew that.


You got posters confused and misquoted me.

 

[CATERHAM]

That makes sense.
Currently GM has one oil grade across their NA product line consiquently there is nothing for their dealer force to screw-up.
When they inevitably start spec'ing 20wt oil it will undoubtedly be for specific models only at least at first. That's when we'll start hearing stories about the dealer installing the "wrong oil" as we do now with other OEMs.

 

[Brigadier]

The reason Toyota and Honda have better CAFE ratings is due to them embracing hybrid technology on a grander scale. Now there is some irony for you. Better MPG to save mommy earth by using batteries whose manufacture really wrecks the environment especially because they are made in China where there is no EPA.

 

[Capa]

Even without CAFE, auto manufacturers still would have moved towards thinner oils but just not as quickly. That has been the trend decade by decade. However, certainly there has been some pressure from the EPA and CAFE to get there much faster. Thinner oil is an inevitable evolutionary step.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Brigadier
The reason Toyota and Honda have better CAFE ratings is due to them embracing hybrid technology on a grander scale. Now there is some irony for you. Better MPG to save mommy earth by using batteries whose manufacture really wrecks the environment especially because they are made in China where there is no EPA.


Don't ever let facts get in the way of good rant.

 

[Brigadier]

Not a rant. just illustrating how false and hypocritical the 'green' movement is. But then again, if it weren't for it, we would have nothing to talk about then....

Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
The reason Toyota and Honda have better CAFE ratings is due to them embracing hybrid technology on a grander scale. Now there is some irony for you. Better MPG to save mommy earth by using batteries whose manufacture really wrecks the environment especially because they are made in China where there is no EPA.


Don't ever let facts get in the way of good rant.

 

[KrisZ]

Good discussion so far, but I see no compelling arguments that CAFE has little to do with oil viscosity use.

Either way, I trust car manufacturers that whatever oil viscosity they choose will provide good service life.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Not a rant. just illustrating how false and hypocritical the 'green' movement is. But then again, if it weren't for it, we would have nothing to talk about then....



How, by making things up? The batteries are made in Japan, not China, and you'd hard-pressed to show there's a net negative in environmental impact with respect to Toyota's hybrid batteries.

You seem to have bought into the obfuscations and outright lies of those who have their own agenda (or your own).

Yes, battery production comes at an environmental cost. So does the production of all forms of energy. This isn't exactly news. They also save a ton of fuel, and the resources from the batteries are almost entirely reused and/or recycled.

 

[gogozy]

Originally Posted By: Brigadier
The reason Toyota and Honda have better CAFE ratings is due to them embracing hybrid technology on a grander scale. Now there is some irony for you. Better MPG to save mommy earth by using batteries whose manufacture really wrecks the environment especially because they are made in China where there is no EPA.

this is a good point, this is issue such as switch over to compact florescent bulb that shift production location. However I don't think Honda gain anything with hybrid because its hybrid fleet suffered from poor sales; their vehicles' EPA rating are not impressive at all, especially compare to what other manufacture's advertising. Honda is a "green" focused company and I suspect it would implement xw-20 or xw-10 regardless of CAFE, but i don't know if they would go as far as sacrifice longevity over been green (recent 10 years).

 

[SteveSRT8]

Batteries do not save much fuel, as fuel is required to generate the electricity they store!

And implying a near 100% rate of recycling and/or re-usage is equally as specious as the so-called "ranter's" arguments!

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Batteries do not save much fuel, as fuel is required to generate the electricity they store!


um...huh? There's a pretty big difference in FE between a Prius C and a Yaris (gas equivalent).

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
And implying a near 100% rate of recycling and/or re-usage is equally as specious as the so-called "ranter's" arguments!


Hardly. Nickle is expensive, and it's a lot cheaper to harvest it from a dead battery. There's a strong economic incentive in place to recycling the battery, which is why Toyota's been so actively involved in recycling them. It's simple economics.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
If GM has been meeting CAFE requirements without the need to resort to 20-weight oil, that's a plus on their side in my book. That gives them the option of going to 20-weight when CAFE ratchets down again in the next couple of years.


Wasn't there an outcry in the 80s when the Govt, realised that the manufacturers had all of their ducks in a row to meet standards out to the future, one little increment at a time...so brought 4-5 years of increments in in one hit ?

Makes sense that they would keep their powder dry.

 

[Brigadier]

Ah, but where does all the nickel come from? the lithium?


Originally Posted By: JOD
The batteries are made in Japan, not China,

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Don't forget Can THe US CAFE standars are acculable to Canada, so there is no need to make another law.


That was basically my point, but your clarification is helpful. Same deal with the dangerous goods transportation regulations, by the way.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I don`t understand the easier starting thing. My car starts the exact same whether I`m using 20W50 or 5W30.


Question, then. Why are you using 15w-50 then, or any multigrade for that matter. Why aren't you just running a straight grade?

If I tried your 15w-50 up here in the winter, I could probably get my vehicle to start. It may groan, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. If I tried a straight 50, well, there wouldn't be any start up wear, since it wouldn't start in the first place.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
I don`t understand the easier starting thing. My car starts the exact same whether I`m using 20W50 or 5W30.

"Startup wear" etc is all liberal government CAFE propaganda. It simply doesn`t exist.]
[From Dave 1251]

1. Your car does not start the exact same with those 2 highly disparate oils. Neither does anyone else's. Why say such nonsense?
2. There is no connection to CAFE and start up wear 'propaganda'.
Before CAFE existed, start up and cold engine oil problems were well noted. Decades before. Oil flow is good for engines, and start up and cold running can have very poor oil flow with thick oils. Everybody knew that.


I`ve owned my Z for a bit over 8 years and have tried everything from 5W30 (which was stupid because my owner`s manual and fsm say not to) to 20W50. Engine spins the exact same speed when I engage the starter. Unless a car has a weenie little starter or a low quality battery,I just don`t see how an oil would change the starting speed. I`ve had the oil cap off on cold morning startups with 50 weight oil and it`s bathing the camshafts in a nice thick coat of oil as soon as the starter moves the engine.

I absolutely LOVE those posts saying anything other than W20 oils can`t reach those pesky "nooks and crannies" of the engine! I`m like,huh?????????

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Ah, but where does all the nickel come from? the lithium?


Originally Posted By: JOD
The batteries are made in Japan, not China,


Well, they probably get their nickel from the same sources most people get it, Canada and Russia. Comparatively speaking, there's almost no nickel mining in China.

As far as Li, most of it comes from Chile. More than half of the world's reserves are there, and they already have the mining infrastructure in place.

I'm not saying that there's no environmental impact in producing a battery. Of course there is..there's environmental impact in the production of every single part of a car! And overall, I'm sure there's a higher impact on resources with the production of a hybrid vehicle versus a similar-sized non-hybrid. However, there's also a significant reduction in the amount of fuel consumed.

Just like lower-viscosity oil, this is one measure to reduce the use of resources. And, just like lower-viscosity oil, some seem intent on baseless criticism...