Buying a 2013 or 2014 Mercedes E-350...Change my mind

[JeffKeryk]

When Acuras started being marketed and sold, people could get near luxury for a little more money coupled with Honda quality.
When Lexus appeared a few years later, they had MB squarely in their sights.
MB had to up their quality and lower their prices.

You may not know this or agree with this, but it is automobile history.
Today Lexus quality is #1.

Consumer Reports

You are free to your opinions and to vote with your $$, but facts matter.
Lexus is consistantly ranked #1 in quality.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by KCJeep
Lexus did not make Mercedes better, but the new competition forced MB to start considering cost more than ever before, essentially resulting in Mercedes that were less MB than ever before. Some improvement....

Toyota/Lexus have no corner on anything except successful brain washing of countless appliance buyers. I recently purchased a new car and spent more time driving candidates than ever before. The KIA Cadenza is a better car than the Lexus ES350.

EdyVw is right, it is startling how many inane left lane hoarding puttering around clueless drivers are in Toyotas.

ES is nothing but plushed up Camry.
At least IS, GS and LS have longitudinal engines, but nothing to brag about. After first generation IS, and brief stint in second generation, Lexus dropped manual transmission which was sign who is their targeted audience for that "sportiest" Lexus.
Reliability? Yeah, maybe, but it would be nice if their cars did not roll down the road like a beer can, or rattle.
Actually, with all this turbo trend (and here at high altitude turbo is actually quite handy) some manufacturers like Lexus could still offer naturally aspirated engines and manual for example. I think there is still market for that, but then....

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
When Acuras started being marketed and sold, people could get near luxury for a little more money coupled with Honda quality.
When Lexus appeared a few years later, they had MB squarely in their sights.
MB had to up their quality and lower their prices.

You may not know this or agree with this, but it is automobile history.
Today Lexus quality is #1.

Consumer Reports

You are free to your opinions and to vote with your $$, but facts matter.
Lexus is consistantly ranked #1 in quality.


You don't really buy a Mercedes for quality.

I briefly looked at a Lexus but they didn't have the same level of options. No active curve illumination, no headlamp washers, no massage seats etc. Plus things like night vision assist weren't available as options. I didn't even see a keyless go type option on their car. Also while other manufacturers have some version of keyless go, I think MB does a complete and full implantation. Each door handle has separate lock and unlock sensors and it also applies to the trunk and gas cap. Other makers either just use one button for both functions or limit to just the front two doors.

 

[Y_K]

Noise level - MB E-Series

Reliability

Small trunk size, but it may or may not be a factor

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by KCJeep
Lexus did not make Mercedes better, but the new competition forced MB to start considering cost more than ever before, essentially resulting in Mercedes that were less MB than ever before. Some improvement....

Toyota/Lexus have no corner on anything except successful brain washing of countless appliance buyers. I recently purchased a new car and spent more time driving candidates than ever before. The KIA Cadenza is a better car than the Lexus ES350.

EdyVw is right, it is startling how many inane left lane hoarding puttering around clueless drivers are in Toyotas.


Hahaha I encountered 3 left lane hogs on my way in today, all doing 10 under the speed limit. All were in Toyotas.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by Wolf359


You don't really buy a Mercedes for quality.

I briefly looked at a Lexus but they didn't have the same level of options. No active curve illumination, no headlamp washers, no massage seats etc. Plus things like night vision assist weren't available as options. I didn't even see a keyless go type option on their car. Also while other manufacturers have some version of keyless go, I think MB does a complete and full implantation. Each door handle has separate lock and unlock sensors and it also applies to the trunk and gas cap. Other makers either just use one button for both functions or limit to just the front two doors.


Agreed. I guess if I am spending that kinda money I expect quality. There was a time the MB was the standard of automobile quality.
They are certainly beautiful.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by Wolf359


You don't really buy a Mercedes for quality.

I briefly looked at a Lexus but they didn't have the same level of options. No active curve illumination, no headlamp washers, no massage seats etc. Plus things like night vision assist weren't available as options. I didn't even see a keyless go type option on their car. Also while other manufacturers have some version of keyless go, I think MB does a complete and full implantation. Each door handle has separate lock and unlock sensors and it also applies to the trunk and gas cap. Other makers either just use one button for both functions or limit to just the front two doors.


Agreed. I guess if I am spending that kinda money I expect quality. There was a time the MB was the standard of automobile quality.
They are certainly beautiful.


I would say Mercedes is still on the edge, but instead of quality it is technology, which makes sense. Many buyers seem to prefer the latest technology/design over long-term build quality and also want it as cheap as possible.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by KCJeep
Lexus did not make Mercedes better, but the new competition forced MB to start considering cost more than ever before, essentially resulting in Mercedes that were less MB than ever before. Some improvement....

Toyota/Lexus have no corner on anything except successful brain washing of countless appliance buyers. I recently purchased a new car and spent more time driving candidates than ever before. The KIA Cadenza is a better car than the Lexus ES350.

EdyVw is right, it is startling how many inane left lane hoarding puttering around clueless drivers are in Toyotas.


Hahaha I encountered 3 left lane hogs on my way in today, all doing 10 under the speed limit. All were in Toyotas.

Toyota and Subaru, 99% of times. The worse is they drive 10mph below speed limit, and then they drive same speed in construction zone where speed limit is 35 or 45. Absolutely do not pay attention on anything whats going on on the road.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by Wolf359


You don't really buy a Mercedes for quality.

I briefly looked at a Lexus but they didn't have the same level of options. No active curve illumination, no headlamp washers, no massage seats etc. Plus things like night vision assist weren't available as options. I didn't even see a keyless go type option on their car. Also while other manufacturers have some version of keyless go, I think MB does a complete and full implantation. Each door handle has separate lock and unlock sensors and it also applies to the trunk and gas cap. Other makers either just use one button for both functions or limit to just the front two doors.


Agreed. I guess if I am spending that kinda money I expect quality. There was a time the MB was the standard of automobile quality.
They are certainly beautiful.

I am gonna spend at least $3,000 to fix Toyota's engineering flaws. I just dropped kid at daycare and had to cover him with two blankets to stay warm because this POS needs 10 miles to start warming inside. My BMW had standard equipped PTC that would blow hot air 3rd second after one starts car and work until coolant reaches proper temperature.
I told my wife: this cars works only if temperature is above 60 degrees. Thank God for VW in garage. This is the first time in my life that I have to choose between cars because it is too cold outside.
MB, BMW, Audi can have quirks, but at least they are not thin as beer can. Do not confuse some reliability issues with assembling quality. Toyota, Lexus etc. are 10 light years behind MB, BMW or Audi. Even my VW feels like a tank after driving Toyota or my cousin IS200t.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by Wolf359


You don't really buy a Mercedes for quality.

I briefly looked at a Lexus but they didn't have the same level of options. No active curve illumination, no headlamp washers, no massage seats etc. Plus things like night vision assist weren't available as options. I didn't even see a keyless go type option on their car. Also while other manufacturers have some version of keyless go, I think MB does a complete and full implantation. Each door handle has separate lock and unlock sensors and it also applies to the trunk and gas cap. Other makers either just use one button for both functions or limit to just the front two doors.


Agreed. I guess if I am spending that kinda money I expect quality. There was a time the MB was the standard of automobile quality.
They are certainly beautiful.


I think that's the standard assumption. I gave someone a ride once who had no idea about cars and he thought Mercedes meant it was built really well. I just laughed.

I do appreciate some of the engineering that went into the cars though, there's lots of body panels and they do a few things that keeps the noise level down. Plus the doors still make it sound like a tank. Every time I slam the doors, it sounds solid and I think it's the definition of what a solid sounding door should sound like. In other brands, you'd hear things rattle inside like the window glass or other internal components. And I don't blame them for the poor motor mounts, just the nature of trying to be better. You gotta pay if you want to play.

 

[Toros]

Originally Posted by KCJeep
Lexus did not make Mercedes better, but the new competition forced MB to start considering cost more than ever before, essentially resulting in Mercedes that were less MB than ever before. Some improvement....

Toyota/Lexus have no corner on anything except successful brain washing of countless appliance buyers. I recently purchased a new car and spent more time driving candidates than ever before. The KIA Cadenza is a better car than the Lexus ES350.

EdyVw is right, it is startling how many inane left lane hoarding puttering around clueless drivers are in Toyotas.


This is spot on. Toyotas are now and have been the ugliest vehicles on the road. Honda copied Saab for body design. That much is certain. Sheeple cars.

 

[Lolvoguy]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Reliability? Yeah, maybe, but it would be nice if their cars did not roll down the road like a beer can, or rattle.

What kind of nonsense is this?

My Lexus is infinitely quieter than any Volvo I was considering/owned in the past. It's also solid and built like a tank when you drive it/close the doors.
It's interior surfaces are higher quality than comparably equipped 3 series from that time and are wearing better too. It's cooling system does not have an electric motor which requires frequent replacement, or a direct injection system that makes carbon cleanings an essential part of ownership, or a turbo setup that causes leaks/failure around 100k miles....I could go on and on.

Yes, the Japanese can build a bit of a boring car. But sometimes ppl don't like spending free time in repair shops/garage as there's other ways of enjoying life.
All depends on what you value.

 

[FlyPenFly]

Get 2014 and up. The m276 is a surprisingly fantastic engine which is one of the few engines that are DFI without seemingly any carbon issues. Something inherent in the design seems to keep the intake valves in good shape. The 2014 and up engines seem to be more reliable. A couple of reports from GLK 350 owners on the 2013 that had some issues.

The air filter and spark plugs are a slight pain in these cars to replace but really not a big deal, pretty simple if you watch a YouTube video.

 

[Toros]

Well it's been a bit since I started this thread but we closed the deal on a replacement vehicle. Went a route I didn't think we would. Tried an Audi A6 2016...very nice. No deal though. Test drove two 2016 Lexus ES 350.... one was a, dealer CPO... I'm now convinced that CPO is, a dealer scam. Ended up buying a 2016 ES 350 from a local Carmax. 22,000 miles. $200 admin fee plus taxes, tags.
It was a fair price with zero hassles. The local Lexus dealers suck but their service departments will have to do as there is still a year left on the fact warranty.

I'm impressed with the quality of the product.

 

[wings&wheels]

Folks who I know who have and/or had them were happy. They are MUCH better than earlier models. Me, I'd look toward other choices in the category, but these are very nice.

There is a lot on info and folks experiences out there, but you know that. As a long term SAAB owner, so was I, you appreciate and tolerate unique cars so you know what you are getting into.

Good luck, you'll enjoy the car.





Funny, I started this reply, got interrupted and by the time I finished and posted, you bought a car!

 

[SatinSilver]

Congrats and great choice! You should be very happy with it I'd imagine.

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted by Toros
Well it's been a bit since I started this thread but we closed the deal on a replacement vehicle. Went a route I didn't think we would. Tried an Audi A6 2016...very nice. No deal though. Test drove two 2016 Lexus ES 350.... one was a, dealer CPO... I'm now convinced that CPO is, a dealer scam. Ended up buying a 2016 ES 350 from a local Carmax. 22,000 miles. $200 admin fee plus taxes, tags.
It was a fair price with zero hassles. The local Lexus dealers suck but their service departments will have to do as there is still a year left on the fact warranty.

I'm impressed with the quality of the product.


You'll have to get used to Lexus quality. Highly improbable you'll have a warranty claim.

Funny how people think they're too cool for a Toyota.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Leo99
Originally Posted by Toros
Well it's been a bit since I started this thread but we closed the deal on a replacement vehicle. Went a route I didn't think we would. Tried an Audi A6 2016...very nice. No deal though. Test drove two 2016 Lexus ES 350.... one was a, dealer CPO... I'm now convinced that CPO is, a dealer scam. Ended up buying a 2016 ES 350 from a local Carmax. 22,000 miles. $200 admin fee plus taxes, tags.
It was a fair price with zero hassles. The local Lexus dealers suck but their service departments will have to do as there is still a year left on the fact warranty.

I'm impressed with the quality of the product.


You'll have to get used to Lexus quality. Highly improbable you'll have a warranty claim.

Funny how people think they're too cool for a Toyota.

ES350 is Camry!
I am not sure how someone goes from E350 to Camry.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Leo99
Originally Posted by Toros
Well it's been a bit since I started this thread but we closed the deal on a replacement vehicle. Went a route I didn't think we would. Tried an Audi A6 2016...very nice. No deal though. Test drove two 2016 Lexus ES 350.... one was a, dealer CPO... I'm now convinced that CPO is, a dealer scam. Ended up buying a 2016 ES 350 from a local Carmax. 22,000 miles. $200 admin fee plus taxes, tags.
It was a fair price with zero hassles. The local Lexus dealers suck but their service departments will have to do as there is still a year left on the fact warranty.

I'm impressed with the quality of the product.


You'll have to get used to Lexus quality. Highly improbable you'll have a warranty claim.

Funny how people think they're too cool for a Toyota.

ES350 is Camry!
I am not sure how someone goes from E350 to Camry.
ES350 is an Avalon. A very different car.

 

[edyvw]

Quote
ES350 is an Avalon. A very different car.

No it's not. It is bigger than Camry, but it is same platform and transverse engine. Camry/Avalon/Highlander/Sienna, are all made on same platform.
You can put so much sound insulation etc. the fact is that ES350 has transverse engine. IMO, in luxury segment that is big NO. There is a reason why GS for example has longitudinal engine and not transverse.