Buying a 2013 or 2014 Mercedes E-350...Change my mind

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Avoid the headaches and buy a brand new Accord, Camry or Mazda 6.

I was wondering how long it would take before someone posted this BITOG classic.

We did not come yet to Subaru and Hyundai.
I am not sure on which year that 350 engine has issues with balancing shafts?

 

[edyvw]

OP, make sure transmission fluid is changed per MB interval schedule. I think for 7G is every 40K.

 

[Wolf359]

Balance shaft issues were with the 2006 and early 2007 E-350 and that was the 268hp M272 engine, 2012-2016 had the direct injection 302hp M276 engine. The earlier W211 also had it's shares of extended MB warranties, 25 years on SBC (2003-2006) and 15 years on the fuel tank. No issues like that on the W212 which was 2010-2016. Also in about 2011 or so, they went to ATF 134 FE and the fluid change interval went to 70k instead of 40k as on the previous W211. Pre-paid maintenance is actually a good deal with the 2 or 3 year service pack as that could cover the plugs at 60 and fluid at 70k plus B service is typically a brake flush. Usually a little over 1k and that covers the plugs which could be $600 at the dealer.

In general, the W212 just doesn't have a lot of the problems the W211 did, like common problems on the W211 were broken wires in the trunk, bad steering angle sensor, bad keyless go door handles. Those weren't issues in the W212 as they redesigned the door handles so that water doesn't get in and ruin the contacts and no one has really reported a bad steering angle sensor in the W212 forums but was a very common problem on the W211.

 

[Toros]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Originally Posted by Toros
Time for a replacement for my wife's 14 year old Saab 9-5 Aero which has served us well. Am looking at 2012-2014 MB E-350 sedans with under 50k on them. We are outside of Philly and it's a target rich environment for them. Plenty to pick from under $25K. Why should I not get one ?

Avoid the headaches and buy a brand new Accord, Camry or Mazda 6.

Someone would have to pay me to own a Camry or Accord. Mazdas are ok but they are nowhere near luxury class.

 

[Toros]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by Toros
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by Toros
Why should I not get one ?
Are you able to DIY?

Yes. I can certainly do oil changes.

I meant more like actual repairs.

Some. But not engine mounts.

 

[Toros]

I always find a great indy specialized mechanic. Did do with our Saab and the Volvos Ive owned over the years.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Balance shaft issues were with the 2006 and early 2007 E-350 and that was the 268hp M272 engine, 2012-2016 had the direct injection 302hp M276 engine. The earlier W211 also had it's shares of extended MB warranties, 25 years on SBC (2003-2006) and 15 years on the fuel tank. No issues like that on the W212 which was 2010-2016. Also in about 2011 or so, they went to ATF 134 FE and the fluid change interval went to 70k instead of 40k as on the previous W211. Pre-paid maintenance is actually a good deal with the 2 or 3 year service pack as that could cover the plugs at 60 and fluid at 70k plus B service is typically a brake flush. Usually a little over 1k and that covers the plugs which could be $600 at the dealer.

In general, the W212 just doesn't have a lot of the problems the W211 did, like common problems on the W211 were broken wires in the trunk, bad steering angle sensor, bad keyless go door handles. Those weren't issues in the W212 as they redesigned the door handles so that water doesn't get in and ruin the contacts and no one has really reported a bad steering angle sensor in the W212 forums but was a very common problem on the W211.

I am not big fan of MB, so I never fallowed closely. I know from my Indy mechanic who does only Euro cars that he changed numerous balance shafts on 350, but not sure years, that is why I am asking.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Toros
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Originally Posted by Toros
Time for a replacement for my wife's 14 year old Saab 9-5 Aero which has served us well. Am looking at 2012-2014 MB E-350 sedans with under 50k on them. We are outside of Philly and it's a target rich environment for them. Plenty to pick from under $25K. Why should I not get one ?

Avoid the headaches and buy a brand new Accord, Camry or Mazda 6.

Someone would have to pay me to own a Camry or Accord. Mazdas are ok but they are nowhere near luxury class.

For people who suggest such nonsense a bit of leather means luxury. Forget that their body is made as thick as beer can, and that is how they drive, like a beer can down the road.
My Sienna goes from 72 degrees inside to ambient temperature in like 5 minutes after I park it, and there are no holes in the body.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Balance shaft issues were with the 2006 and early 2007 E-350 and that was the 268hp M272 engine, 2012-2016 had the direct injection 302hp M276 engine. The earlier W211 also had it's shares of extended MB warranties, 25 years on SBC (2003-2006) and 15 years on the fuel tank. No issues like that on the W212 which was 2010-2016. Also in about 2011 or so, they went to ATF 134 FE and the fluid change interval went to 70k instead of 40k as on the previous W211. Pre-paid maintenance is actually a good deal with the 2 or 3 year service pack as that could cover the plugs at 60 and fluid at 70k plus B service is typically a brake flush. Usually a little over 1k and that covers the plugs which could be $600 at the dealer.

In general, the W212 just doesn't have a lot of the problems the W211 did, like common problems on the W211 were broken wires in the trunk, bad steering angle sensor, bad keyless go door handles. Those weren't issues in the W212 as they redesigned the door handles so that water doesn't get in and ruin the contacts and no one has really reported a bad steering angle sensor in the W212 forums but was a very common problem on the W211.

I am not big fan of MB, so I never fallowed closely. I know from my Indy mechanic who does only Euro cars that he changed numerous balance shafts on 350, but not sure years, that is why I am asking.


The M272 engine was also used in the C class and I think was also around before 2006 in other models so there were lots of engines affected. Even now there are some out there that pick up a 2006 for 5-6k and then start wondering what certain engine codes are that point to the balance shaft. Repair at an indy can range from 3-5k as the engine has to be removed in order to replace the balance shaft. Dealers can be up to 8k.

That's why you have to research a particular year before buying it. The E63 is a blast, but it has weak head bolts and that wasn't fixed til 2011, so 2007-2011 is all suspect. Then they get a bill for 25k from the dealer for a new engine. The E63 would be one I'd stay away from, airmatic and also the brakes alone could be 3k for parts as they used some fancy rotors and the pads are different as they use a 6 piston caliper. The lowly E-350 only had a single piston and brakes are "cheap" as there's lots of aftermarket.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Balance shaft issues were with the 2006 and early 2007 E-350 and that was the 268hp M272 engine, 2012-2016 had the direct injection 302hp M276 engine. The earlier W211 also had it's shares of extended MB warranties, 25 years on SBC (2003-2006) and 15 years on the fuel tank. No issues like that on the W212 which was 2010-2016. Also in about 2011 or so, they went to ATF 134 FE and the fluid change interval went to 70k instead of 40k as on the previous W211. Pre-paid maintenance is actually a good deal with the 2 or 3 year service pack as that could cover the plugs at 60 and fluid at 70k plus B service is typically a brake flush. Usually a little over 1k and that covers the plugs which could be $600 at the dealer.

In general, the W212 just doesn't have a lot of the problems the W211 did, like common problems on the W211 were broken wires in the trunk, bad steering angle sensor, bad keyless go door handles. Those weren't issues in the W212 as they redesigned the door handles so that water doesn't get in and ruin the contacts and no one has really reported a bad steering angle sensor in the W212 forums but was a very common problem on the W211.

I am not big fan of MB, so I never fallowed closely. I know from my Indy mechanic who does only Euro cars that he changed numerous balance shafts on 350, but not sure years, that is why I am asking.


The M272 engine was also used in the C class and I think was also around before 2006 in other models so there were lots of engines affected. Even now there are some out there that pick up a 2006 for 5-6k and then start wondering what certain engine codes are that point to the balance shaft. Repair at an indy can range from 3-5k as the engine has to be removed in order to replace the balance shaft. Dealers can be up to 8k.

That's why you have to research a particular year before buying it. The E63 is a blast, but it has weak head bolts and that wasn't fixed til 2011, so 2007-2011 is all suspect. Then they get a bill for 25k from the dealer for a new engine. The E63 would be one I'd stay away from, airmatic and also the brakes alone could be 3k for parts as they used some fancy rotors and the pads are different as they use a 6 piston caliper. The lowly E-350 only had a single piston and brakes are "cheap" as there's lots of aftermarket.

When I was thinking to pick up GL or GLS before I decided for minivan as more practical solution, one thing I was worried about is airmatic and apparently subpar brakes on those behemoths.

 

[Toros]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Toros
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Originally Posted by Toros
Time for a replacement for my wife's 14 year old Saab 9-5 Aero which has served us well. Am looking at 2012-2014 MB E-350 sedans with under 50k on them. We are outside of Philly and it's a target rich environment for them. Plenty to pick from under $25K. Why should I not get one ?

Avoid the headaches and buy a brand new Accord, Camry or Mazda 6.

Someone would have to pay me to own a Camry or Accord. Mazdas are ok but they are nowhere near luxury class.

For people who suggest such nonsense a bit of leather means luxury. Forget that their body is made as thick as beer can, and that is how they drive, like a beer can down the road.
My Sienna goes from 72 degrees inside to ambient temperature in like 5 minutes after I park it, and there are no holes in the body.


Fairly arrogant of you to assume that folks define luxury as you do...leather surfaces. To many others it's significantly more. Mostly design, technological advances, safety features and appearance Design is clearly something which has eluded the Toyota brand for decades. Camrys may be reliable cars but they are butt ugly and a sheeple mobile no matter how you slice it. Same goes for the Accord. Historically, automobile design and styling as well technological innovation starts with European and US auto makers and Japanese and Korean manufacturers quickly scramble to copy and somehow incorporate. Those are just plain facts.

 

[Joe1]

You asked why you should not get one.

I'd need additional information before attempting to talk you out of buying one of these nice vehicles.

These vehicles can be costly to repair as they age, but you probably already know that. If you have the financial wherewithal to deal with repairs and maintenance costs of the vehicle, l do not see any reason not to get a vehicle you will be happy with.

The vehicle might be reliable and only require basic maintenance for many years. It could also be problematic and require costly repairs. If it turns out to be a money pit, will your happiness of driving the car compared to a generic boring reliable make offset the added cost? If yes, buy the Mercedes.

I've known people that absolutely love the driving experience of Euro vehicles and don't complain about the cost. Others that aren't car enthusiasts often lament the cost of ownership and go back to driving a boring reliable make.

If your happiness level of driving the used Mercedes is 10 vs a 1 for a new Camry, l would buy the Mercedes. If it was 6 vs 5, l would say buy the new Toyota.

In the end, only you know how much joy you will get from driving the E class. It is difficult for me to talk you out of a purchase without knowing your utility of demand for this vehicle.

 

[Toros]

Originally Posted by Joe1
You asked why you should not get one.

I'd need additional information before attempting to talk you out of buying one of these nice vehicles.

These vehicles can be costly to repair as they age, but you probably already know that. If you have the financial wherewithal to deal with repairs and maintenance costs of the vehicle, l do not see any reason not to get a vehicle you will be happy with.

The vehicle might be reliable and only require basic maintenance for many years. It could also be problematic and require costly repairs. If it turns out to be a money pit, will your happiness of driving the car compared to a generic boring reliable make offset the added cost? If yes, buy the Mercedes.

I've known people that absolutely love the driving experience of Euro vehicles and don't complain about the cost. Others that aren't car enthusiasts often lament the cost of ownership and go back to driving a boring reliable make.

If your happiness level of driving the used Mercedes is 10 vs a 1 for a new Camry, l would buy the Mercedes. If it was 6 vs 5, l would say buy the new Toyota.

In the end, only you know how much joy you will get from driving the E class. It is difficult for me to talk you out of a purchase without knowing your utility of demand for this vehicle.







I agree with your assessment here. It will be a vehicle that is not driven much. 6k miles/ year at most. Cost of service/repairs is not an issue. I have done well purchasing used vehicles utilizing US News and World Report's ratings. They give the 2012-2014 E350 a 5out of 5 in reliability.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by Joe1

I've known people that absolutely love the driving experience of Euro vehicles and don't complain about the cost. Others that aren't car enthusiasts often lament the cost of ownership and go back to driving a boring reliable make.

If your happiness level of driving the used Mercedes is 10 vs a 1 for a new Camry, l would buy the Mercedes. If it was 6 vs 5, l would say buy the new Toyota.


I think that's a valid point; in my case, European or not, my car has to be an entertaining and involving drive(before I bought my 2er I looked at everything from a supercharged Elise to an E39 M5 to a Challenger SRT). If someone considers a car to be just an anodyne transport pod then an appliance is the obvious choice for them. As for me, the enjoyment I derive from driving an interesting car is the primary factor I use when I evaluate a new/used car.

 

[Toros]

Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by Joe1

I've known people that absolutely love the driving experience of Euro vehicles and don't complain about the cost. Others that aren't car enthusiasts often lament the cost of ownership and go back to driving a boring reliable make.

If your happiness level of driving the used Mercedes is 10 vs a 1 for a new Camry, l would buy the Mercedes. If it was 6 vs 5, l would say buy the new Toyota.


I think that's a valid point; in my case, European or not, my car has to be an entertaining and involving drive(before I bought my 2er I looked at everything from a supercharged Elise to an E39 M5 to a Challenger SRT). If someone considers a car to be just an anodyne transport pod then an appliance is the obvious choice for them. As for me, the enjoyment I derive from driving an interesting car is the primary factor I use when I evaluate a new/used car.

Agreed.

 

[edyvw]

Quote
Fairly arrogant of you to assume that folks define luxury as you do...leather surfaces. To many others it's significantly more. Mostly design, technological advances, safety features and appearance Design is clearly something which has eluded the Toyota brand for decades. Camrys may be reliable cars but they are butt ugly and a sheeple mobile no matter how you slice it. Same goes for the Accord. Historically, automobile design and styling as well technological innovation starts with European and US auto makers and Japanese and Korean manufacturers quickly scramble to copy and somehow incorporate. Those are just plain facts.

Most folks here do. Why would someone on thread about luxury SUV suggest Hyundai Santa Fe?
Do please tell me with what technological advances best equipped Toyota comes? All Japanese manufacturers usually wait decade to start applying technology offered by brands like Mercedes. Today in Sienna you can find safety features that were standard on Mercedes S class in some 2002.
As what eluded people to Toyota I am not sure, as it is worst assembled vehicle I owned in last two decades. Since I am living in hail capital of the US, I am literally afraid hail might go through the roof.
But since you made suggestion, let me ask you what part of Toyota etc. is equal to E350?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Personally, I think Toyotas are very technology advanced. That's why their cars run so good.
Most other manufacturers have never caught up.

You do know that Lexus cars made Mercedes change their business and make better cars, right?
Just sayin...

The TSX (Honda) in my signature has over 190K miles. It has been serviced regularly. I have replaced the water pump and alternator.
I will rebuild the power steering pump soon as it is leaking. The car has never left us stranded.
My Tundra has almost 200K; it looks and runs like new. Regular service; I did replace the shocks.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Personally, I think Toyotas are very technology advanced. That's why their cars run so good.
Most other manufacturers have never caught up.

You do know that Lexus cars made Mercedes change their business and make better cars, right?
Just sayin...

The TSX (Honda) in my signature has over 190K miles. It has been serviced regularly. I have replaced the water pump and alternator.
I will rebuild the power steering pump soon as it is leaking. The car has never left us stranded.
My Tundra has almost 200K; it looks and runs like new. Regular service; I did replace the shocks.

I have Land Cruiser 3.0 D-4D in Europe. It was more problematic than my BMW E61 525d and X5 35d combined, and X5 had first generation SCR technology, which is by no means reliable.
Toyota offers in US reliable products because they offer old products. 99.9% of Toyota drivers want something that is slapped on the four wheels and somehow moves forward, how it does , is irrelevant to them. Give AWD or truck bed, and they become very confident in hugging left lane 20mph below speed limit.
In Europe, where engines have to be extremely sophisticated due to very high gas and diesel prices, one cannot offer 5.7 V8 that runs technology from time when Soviet troops invaded Afghanistan. They have to offer more sophisticated products, and that is why Toyota, listen now, buy diesels from BMW, or Honda has to offer diesels etc. And their reliability is nowhere near what is here. In 2000's the most unreliable diesel engines were both from Toyota, 1.4d which kind of required laboratory clean diesel, and 2.2d which could not make 100k km before piston rings were worn out and rod bearings shoot.
But, I guess on this side f the pond, .7 V8 or 3.5 V6 are still technologically "advanced."
And do tell us, how did Mercedes changed its line up due to Lexus? Advertised to people who are not 50 years old on average, but 80?

 

[DoubleWasp]

Modern E-Class is a great car. My girl loves hers, and we have only ever had one problem. Radar for the side warning malfunctioned and they fixed it in a couple of days.

I'll always be a little apprehensive of the complexity of European cars, but I own a car made by Fiat Group, so caution has been thrown into the wind.

 

[KCJeep]

Lexus did not make Mercedes better, but the new competition forced MB to start considering cost more than ever before, essentially resulting in Mercedes that were less MB than ever before. Some improvement....

Toyota/Lexus have no corner on anything except successful brain washing of countless appliance buyers. I recently purchased a new car and spent more time driving candidates than ever before. The KIA Cadenza is a better car than the Lexus ES350.

EdyVw is right, it is startling how many inane left lane hoarding puttering around clueless drivers are in Toyotas.