Briggs & Stratton better than Honda

[jsharp]

If anyone can design an aluminum cylinder engine and make it last it's Honda.

Given the marginal difference in cost between a Briggs and a Honda, the Honda is likely worth it. If nothing else you'll probably see the money back in reduced fuel costs.

 

[flatlandtacoma]

Honda engines designated for 'commercial' use (GX OHV and GS OHC series) have cast-iron sleeves. Honda 'residential' use entry level GC series have aluminum bores.

It's the same way with B&S. Unless the engine is from the I/C or Extended Life line or specifically says it has a "Durabore" cast iron sleeve, it don't got one.

 

[dwendt44]

The Chevy Vega will live forever in infamy.

Cylinder treatments and general machining practices have improved markedly in the last few years.
I'm suspicious of piston rings running on aluminum cylinders and won't buy a motor that does that.
BMW has a good quality coating, and do some outboards(2 strokes maybe a different animal in this regard).
If, and that's a big if, the cylinder is machines properly, the coating, if any, is done right, and the rings/pistons are engineered and fitted properly, then MAYBE.
I'll wait and see.

 

[Shannow]

This thread is like asking a bunch of people whether they like dogd or cats.

My first 4 stroke I bought 7 or 8 years ago. Victa Mulch and Catch with B&S quantum. Ran Castrol syntec 0W-30 'till I ran out, and M1 0W-40 at present.

Doesn't burn any. (the usual blue puff when it starts first pull is all). Oil stays clean all though the mowing season. Uses way less fuel than any two stroke mower.

I love it...pity that the mulching part leads to clogging up under the deck. Flipping it to clear it DOES flood the carb funnily enough.

FILs Honda mower (whole mower is Honda) is ridiculously heavy starts second pull every time. He likes it. And as he's the one pushing it, I'm cool with that.

The Honda engine in his mulcher is a cantankerous pig to start on the two or three occasions that it's called into service each year.

 

[1999nick]

Originally Posted By: Gilitar
Originally Posted By: 1999nick

Quite obviously, none of you has bought or used the Honda 160 OHC engine that is used on many brands of mower in addition to low end Hondas. They do not cost much of a premium over a flathead B&S or Tecumseh. They can be had on push mowers for just a little over $200 and in self-propelled mode for less than $300.True, they are aluminum, just like most low priced OPE engines, and many automobile engines. What's wrong with that?


From my understanding aluminum sleeves were tried by GM once and it didn't take them long to find out they had actually made mosquito killers instead.


Yeh, that's right. Which was the worse engine -- the aluminum Vega engine or the infamous v-8 Diesel or the Cadillac 4-6-8? Don't compare GM aluminum engines of the past to modern aluminum engines. My Honda 5.5 hp OHC engine burns NO oil in a one year 60+ hour OCI, and it is 7.5 years old. I have a Tecumseh 4.5 hp flathead on a yard vac that has 47 hours on it(I have a thing about putting hour meters on my major OPE) that uses about an ounce of oil every hour of use.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: 1999nick
Quite obviously, none of you has bought or used the Honda 160 OHC engine that is used on many brands of mower in addition to low end Hondas. They do not cost much of a premium over a flathead B&S or Tecumseh. They can be had on push mowers for just a little over $200 and in self-propelled mode for less than $300.True, they are aluminum, just like most low priced OPE engines, and many automobile engines. What's wrong with that?They seem to cost about $20 more than either flat head on these low priced machines, and they are well worth that.


Right, Ive not paid a premium for the GC consumer line honda engines. However I have paid a premium for a superior honda GX engine.

I still see no good reason to buy a honda engined mower. My mower purchased when I bought my house in 2006 cost $134 including a 4.5hp B&S flathead. Runs whatever fuel I want to dispose into it, uses no oil, starts first pull, and the 2-3 gal. of fuel that I use a year will never be recouped in the $90-$150+ premium that Id pay for the GC engine. Ill get as long a life from the engine as I want, and only if I get lazy and want a self-propelled will I get rid of it. I have 75-100 hours on it and 3 oil changes.

You made my exact point, they cost more, other parts wear out first anyway, and so there is no perceivable benefit that I can tell, considering that we are able to get >1000 hours out of our small and large flathead B&S egines on small rider and a self-propelled pushmower without significant issues.

But some people like other brands... That is a decision they are free to make. Value and waste are simply perceptions, and the key is to be happy with the purchase.

JMH

 

[Dad2leia]

JHZR2, that's exactly what I stated saying that I liked my Honda way back earlier in this thread.

To each his own. I like Honda, you like B&S, someone else in here likes Subaru or Robin.

Eveybody's happy with their engine on their equipment. So is one better than another, "the world may never know..."

 

[GMBoy]

I hate my new Husqvarna mower with the Honda engine. It is very sensitive to gas. The old mower (still runs, so its a backup) has a Briggs in it and will burn any gas you put it in. The honda won't run unless that gas is fresh. Happened 3x to me and I even use fuel stabilizer. Honda wouldn't run - put same gas in old Briggs mower and it runs fine. Go to gas station - get fresh gas - than HOnda will run. Not to mention the cheap plastic fuel cutoff that broke the 1st week. I don't see the hype on these Honda engines. They do seem to be clean running, however.

 

[TNpowerstroke]

I have some experience with the small Honda and Briggs engines and only 1 has started the first every time I have pulled the starter rope. It is a Briggs Intek 206 on a Troy Bilt tiller. First time every time 5 or 6 times a year for 3 years.

For what its worth I have these engines, some older, some newer than 3 years that will never start the first pull. These Honda engines listed all take more pulls to start than my 20 year old John Deere mower with a 4hp 2cycle Briggs motor:
Honda FG100 tiller Honda GX31
2 Honda EU 2000 Generators Honda GX100
Excell Pressure Washer Honda GC190
The GX100's and the GC190 usually take 3 to 6 pulls to start. Too Many.

Reliability and longevity may be a different issue but a heavily used mower with a 20 year old Briggs 2 cycle still running tells me a lot.

I have always heard how good the Honda engines were but I definitely like the Intek 206 the best for starting ease. It is the easiest starting small motor I have ever owned. The GC190 Honda is undoubtably the hardest small engine, I have owned, to start.
These are my 1st hand experiences.
The generators and the FG100 tiller I would purchase again for the whole package. If I were looking for another full size tiller or a push mower it would be Briggs all the way for me.

 

[double vanos]

I've gotta jump in here. In 1982 I bought a Honda HR 214 self propelled mower to replace a B&S that was destined to give me a heart attack just trying to start it. SOB was 2 years old.

That Honda got traded in 2 years ago when his transmission died. The parts price to repair the thing had me half way to a new Masters series with hydrostatic drive so I got a new Honda mower.

I do believe that a Honda is more complex than a B&S and surely it costs more to repair or overhaul it, but there's only one thing that must be noted in my case - in the 23 years I used my Honda it never went to the shop for repairs.

All it ever got was oil changes and air filters. It was traded in running perfectly fine with the same spark plug, never adjusted the valves or carb, nada, zilch, nothing. To me that negates all this talk of difficulty to service/repair/overhaul etc.

In the 23 years I owned my Honda, I watched my next door neighbor go through 1 Yardman, 2 Sears, 1 Lawnboy and numerous $100 cheapies.

My current Honda is only 2 years old so it is virtually new. If I get another 23 years out of this mower I'll be 77 years old and probably give up mowing. My .02. Cheers!

 

[boomtower]

thats true, anything with aluminum cylinders dont last long period.

 

[1999nick]

Originally Posted By: boomtower
thats true, anything with aluminum cylinders dont last long period.



Yeh, right. I suppose that's why my mower with the Honda GCV 160 consumer grade aluminum engine still does not use ANY oil from one year to the next, about a 60 hour OCI. It was purchased in 2000, and has never used any oil (always Mobil 1 5W30) from one year to the next. According to the hour meter I have on it, it is pushing 440 hours of use.

As far as being hard to start, that depends to a large extent on how hard you pull the cord. I am a fairly old guy, 71. Sometimes when my shoulder is bothering me, it takes me two or three pulls to start. Yesterday, however, I used it to clean up leaves, and felt pretty good. I gave it a good yank, and it started on the first pull. Point is, its hard to tell just how hard an individual mower is to start when you have these variations in the energy one gives when pulling the starter cord.

 

[TNpowerstroke]

In my opinion the Kawasaki engines are the one to go for. I have not had any engine problems or failures with any of my small motors, just regular maintenance. The Briggs Intek on my tiller starts practically effortless.
I also have a 14hp Kawasaki on a John Deere LX172 that has been problem free for 18 years and has never burned or leaked a drop of oil. This Kawasaki gets used about 30 times a year for 2 hours X 18 years = 1080 hours.
I would think there are good and bad of all brands. It is just strange to me that I wound up with 3 out of 4 Honda engines that are a bear to start. All of the small motors have Stabil added to every gallon of gas used in them so it should not be varnish as they all get regular workouts.

 

[dwendt44]

"..anything with aluminum cylinders dont last long period. "

Perhaps he was referring to the aluminum cylinder without a iron liner. Me thinks. :???:

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: boomtower
thats true, anything with aluminum cylinders dont last long period.


True, if you are limited to the level of technology available in a blacksmith shop.

More advanced engine manufacturers get long life from aluminum cylinder linings.

 

[flatlandtacoma]

This is as good as those GM vs Toyota threads over on Automotive general.

Run what you like, and be happy. Let others run what they like. All the typing in the world isn't going to turn one brand into a sow's ear or the other into a silk purse.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

 

[Dad2leia]

Yeah, what flatlandtacoma said...

Gobble gobble!!

 

[Curious Kid]

When talking engines, that doesn't include carburetors and mufflers, and there effects upon starting and operation.

When the last time one checked a/f ratios, operating temps and sampled the oil, or even knew what compression ratio the engine had?

I'm getting to the point I'm just glad the engines start and appear to run clean. They're relatively efficient and have not required much of me. And I'd agree it's usually not the engine that gives me trouble when things arise, such as deposits in the carb, stiffened fuel control diaphram on the chain saw and line trimmer, restricted air filters, etc.

Enjoy whatever it is you use. Opinion will forever be opinion.

 

[Bror Jace]

I've had Honda engines that were not easy to start ... but none that are a bear to start ... unless you count the ones that are over 20 years old that get run only about 15-20 minutes per year.

Last weekend I had to visit my Dad and help him with his wood splitter. The thing is about a year old, maybe 20 hours on it and the engine has had at least 3 oil changes already.

The engine? A 12.5hp B&S OHV I/C (don't have the model handy, if there is one). The problem? Dad couldn't get it started. Recoil requires a fair amount of muscle and the kick-back is the worst of any outdoor power equipment that I have ever tried to start.

Machine was flooded when I got there ... some ether and about a dozen pulls with the choke off and I got it running OK. It works well enough but hesitates and stumbles now and then for no apparent reason.

I broke it in thoroughly with some top lubes and frequent oil chnages. Running it wide-open for about an hour didn't seem to consume a drop of oil. I'm running 15W-40 in it now.

 

[Vaca]

Maybe the 15w-40 oil made it tougher to pull start than a lighter weight oil would?