Current Briggs & Stratton small engines any good?

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Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
Originally Posted By: yeehaw1960
I used to be a staunch supporter of everything Honda, but the 160 just doesn't live up to the Honda name as one would expect. I'm speaking as someone who works on 20 - 30 of them a year. Now, when you consider they make thousands, that's kind of a small number, but I'm talking 3 out of 10 (unheard of odds for a Honda) don't run smoothly no matter what I do with them. I remember the first Honda I ever worked with. The mower was on it's side for 45 minutes while I replaced a hard to reach cable. I flipped it over (it was 40 degrees outside), pulled the cord once and it fired right up. The 160 just doesn't stack up even to the next up in the Honda food chain. I have to admit I haven't worked on a Kawasaki for a couple Summers since I started shying away from working on commercial equipment (except for that of a few friends). They could have raised a little on the sh*t meter too. I like Kohler and have to admit that I mostly, these days, see them to get the oil changed, the fuel system evacuated and for general cleanup after the end of the season. My opinion of them could be because I've seen so many worn out ones. Ah...another year really gets started tomorrow. Lots of mowers, lots of work. Plenty of scantily clad (middle-aged--my speed)ladies dropping them off!


Check out my post just above yours. I keep asking on this forum and others about the Honda 160 which I have owned for 10 yeaqrs,: Just what is their failure mode? Mine has been perfect for 10 years and almost 550 hours. It has never had any engine or carburetor work. It goes 50 to 60 hours without burning any oil.

I have been wanting to get a rear wheel drive mower for some time now, but I don't believe this Honda is ever going to wear out.

A Honda engine would be my first choice for any new mower.


And I have a cheapie 20 year old lawn mower with B&S that never needed any carburetor or engine work. I passed it on to a relative and it still runs. I bought a Honda and it did need carburetor work and it always smokes oil on startup. I never liked it, and I got a new mower with a B&S and I like it a lot better. Hondas residential mower engines being better than B&S is an old wive's tale.


I'm not an old wife, but you see my personal Honda tale above. Ten years and about 530 to 550 hours (I have an hour meter on it) and still uses no oil in a 55 to 60 hour yearly OCI. And, no carbutetor adjustment and only one new spark plug. Only yearly oil changes and new air filters. Maybe the Mobil One oil I have always used has something to do with it..

Now, once again, for the umpteenth time, can you guys who work on them and don't like them tell me what the usual failure mode is. Maybe you work on them too much. I've never, in 10 years, touched the carburetor on mine. Other parts of my mower have needed work. I have replaced the gearbox one time, about 5 years ago, and I replaced all 4 wheels about 5 years ago. The fronts have worn off smooth again, and I'm going to replace them again this week.

I'll be 74 years old this year, and I might have one more new mower left in me. I woulde like to have a new mower with rear wheel drive, as it would probably make these hot summers a little easier on me.
 
I'm not saying that the Honda residential engine is no good, although I don't like the carburetor. You seemed to have good luck with yours. I don't work on OPE much but I'd assume the timing belt in the Honda residential engine would eventually go at some point. I just think the B&S is a lot better than it gets credit for and is a good value. I prefer them. If we're talking Honda commercial then maybe there is an advantage to the Honda.

Rear wheel driver self-propelled mowers are a lot better than the front wheel drive. I wouldn't hesitate to buy or recommended a RWD B&S powered mower. Lowe's was carrying, if they still are, a John Deere RWD B&S and I think it's a nice mower for about $400. I've heard good things about the Craftsman versions as well.
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Honda make some very good engines abd thr GX series are good. Every spring I see lawnmowers with B&S motors out at the curb waiting to be picked up for garbage. They likely wont start and and rather than fix them the owners just buy a new mower. In 30 years I have not seen a Honda mower at the curb...



Probably because the owners feel bad throwing it out since the Honda cost at least twice as much.
 
I agree. How can you really adjust a Honda carb anyway? if you take the air cleaner housing off to get to the mixture screws the carb falls off. Plus the rebuild kit seems to cost about as much as the complete carb. Are these OEM carbs? Are they bolt on and set to go?
 
I owned a Honda pushmower back in the mid 80's for 5 years. It was a basic mower with the OHV engine. I religiously used Stabil in the fall in the last tank of gas, then ran it dry. I changed the oil, cleaned the spark plug, changed the air filter, and adjusted the valves every season. Then one spring it ran like [censored]. I disassembled and cleaned the carb and changed the spark plug. It still ran like [censored]. I sold it (easily) and bought a Walmart special with a B&S engine. It's still going strong and the carb has never given me problems.
 
Has Honda even been making OPE for 30 years??

On a side note, all the older B&S units my dad owned ran perfectly for YEARS with no oil changes.

We bought a Craftsman mower with a 6.75tq B&S so we'll see how long it lasts. If it [censored] out too soon, I'll replace it with a Honda. If not, I'll just keep using the good ol' Briggs.
 
Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
Has Honda even been making OPE for 30 years??


They were in Canada. I bought that Honda mower in 1984.
 
With nothing truly scientific to offer, I would say that 3 out of 10 GVC 160s I see won't run perfect even after a good cleaning of the carb and installation of new plug, air filter, etc. The adjustment screw just needs a moron-engineered screwdriver to get to it. It doesn't help much though. I'll bet if they had a manual choke like the Chondas, they would run perfect with that little extra choke.

It's hard to swallow because Honda is supposed to be the best or, at least, one of the best. Not this bottom of the line 160 by any means. Buy the step up from the bottom Toro or Honda mower or buy a cheapy with a Briggs on it, and rear wheel drive.
 
Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
Has Honda even been making OPE for 30 years??



While not OPE, seems Honda has been building engines since 1946

http://corporate.honda.com/america/history.aspx

Quote:

In October 1946, Soichiro Honda established the Honda Technical Research Institute in Hamamatsu, Japan, to develop and produce small 2-cycle motorbike engines. Two years later, Honda Motor Company, Ltd. was born, and in 1959 Honda opened its first storefront in Los Angeles with six industrious employees.
 
Originally Posted By: yeehaw1960
With nothing truly scientific to offer, I would say that 3 out of 10 GVC 160s I see won't run perfect even after a good cleaning of the carb and installation of new plug, air filter, etc. The adjustment screw just needs a moron-engineered screwdriver to get to it. It doesn't help much though. I'll bet if they had a manual choke like the Chondas, they would run perfect with that little extra choke.

It's hard to swallow because Honda is supposed to be the best or, at least, one of the best. Not this bottom of the line 160 by any means. Buy the step up from the bottom Toro or Honda mower or buy a cheapy with a Briggs on it, and rear wheel drive.


Come on guys, quit messing with these Honda carburetors and getting them to where they won't run right. I've never even seen the carburetor on my 10 year old 160 GCV, and it still starts on the first pull, even after sitting two or three weeks in the winter. I do change filters yearly, along with the oil, and I never put any of those carburetor clogging fuel additives in it..
 
I hate to say this since I am the OP but I own a Honda HR215 (model #?)self propelled lawn mower which I have owned for 4-5 years. It ran fine until (!) my idiot son in law who was cutting our lawn decided to "work" on it since it kept bogging down in 14" grass, imagine that! I imagine he did something to the carb, it starts right up but soon as you take the choke off, it begins to stumble, then you have to choke it again to get it to idol, I checked the plug, emptied the carb bowel and all I can figure is he adjusted some screw on the carb, any suggestions?
 
I had to "mess" with the Honda carb to get the mower to even start and run. I wouldn't have taken it apart if I didn't have to.
 
Probably your best bet is to get a new carb and gaskets. If you can get to the mixture screws and adjusted them it might run better, but on the GCV engines I've seen this isn't really possible.
 
Originally Posted By: BayouTodd
I checked the plug, emptied the carb bowel and all I can figure is he adjusted some screw on the carb, any suggestions?


bought a honda mower hrx217hxa few years ago, has gcv190 engine. it's been an ok mower considering it's price tag. i would agree that all small 4-stroke engines are running on the lean side, mine would have slight surging and i could tell when cutting high thick grass the engine would bog out and lose rpms more that i thought it would. The solution is to simply bend the tab on the float so there is more fuel in the bowl, that will result in a richer mixture just enough. There is really no other way to do it, other than hog out jets if there are any to get at and like was said that's a risky procedure and usually ends up bad.
Without seeing the carb on your hrx215 i cant give you accurate advice, but the carb is generally simple and easy to work on, hardest thing is getting it off the engine and onto a bench. and all you have to do is pull the bowl off, clean it out with some carb cleaner and compressed air, and it's generally a good idea to pull the gas tank and clean that out too. the only external adjustment on the carb i'm aware off is the idle speed so if that's the problem crank that cw and you'll see the trottle stop move and open the throttle plate in the carb throat more. And if there is another adjustment, such as an adjustable mixture screw coming out the bottom of the bowl, set that by closing all the way cw then opening 1.25 turns ccw. if there's a mixture screw up on the side of the carb, so same thing.

the thing i dislike about briggs & tecumseh, and i don't know all the models they make now, are that they are generally side valve engines. And it is a fact that side valve geometry flows worse than overhead valves, so a side valve engine will always have less power than the same displacement overhead valve (OHV) engine, which is why i basically like honda engines. The reason the side valves are still made is because of cost, they are cheaper. And they are also louder, or which is why ovh (honda) engines are generally quieter, either the side valve uses a less restrictive muffler to make power so it's louder, or the OHV engine can use a more restrictive muffler and be quieter.

and the biggest thing i hate about the recent line of engines is the carbs on them having a primer bulb and no throttle and absolutely no kind of adjustment. once again it's done for cost, the engine only needs to run at one speed all the time so technically you can really simplify the carb and make it cheap, but then the user loses functionality such as throttling the engine. and when i see a carb with a primer bulb on a 4-stroke engine, that immediately tells me they built it as cheap as possible. i really don't care much for the engine brand or manuf. so much as I do that it's an OHV engine and has a traditional carb that can be throttled and has a bowl with a float- it's just reality that you eventually have to clean them and it's not hard to do.
 
I have a rule of thumb when it comes to carburetors. NEVER mess with a properly operating float. One little tweak can lead to hours of getting it back to where it was. I had a two horse Evinrude outboard motor that I had adjusted the float on. Took me forever to get that float right again. I finally had to take the engine into the garage, take it apart, remove the carb and calibrate the float level to exact specification. That was the worst one I've come across but there have been a few others that were finicky to get the float just right.
 
I just bought a new lawnmower the other day. The fact that the B&S engines are still using the side valve design really turned me off. It's 2010 for Pete's sake-- Use the design that's proven to yield better power, less emissions and decreased fuel consumption, even if it costs a few bucks extra.

Despite not needing anything better than the cheapest non-self propelled mower available, I opted for a Troy Bilt 21" mower with the Honda GCV160 engine even though it was about $100 more than the cheapest B&S and still not self-propelled.

I really wanted a mower with the new Kohler Courage XT-6 since it has no timing belt and a cast iron sleeve. It was too expensive on in-stock models. Sears wanted 30 days to deliver a $199 Husqvarna that was ideal-- non self-propelled with the Kohler engine. I wish I hadn't needed one so quickly.

I'm amazed at the Honda engine's power. After defeating the automatic throttle (by varying spring tension), I'm able to cut and mulch the grass at walking speed with the engine running at near-idle. When the grass is thick/high the engine labors at the lower speed, but never stalls or slows down. Overall it runs cool, is quiet and smooth, exactly what I was looking for. I look forward to many years of owning/using it.
 
Despite the archaic technology of the side valve engine it's been a proven workhorse over the years and the B&S/Tecumseh side valve engines are virtually indestructible if reasonable amounts of oil are kept in them.

I have the same negative response when I see a side valve engine on a new product. It's strictly because I'm a bit of a technology enthusiast and appreciate modern design provided it's not over the top.

I'd be willing to venture that those side valve engines being produced today will likely have very long service lives despite their antiquated technology. If one can get that behind them, they're probably better off buying one.
 
Originally Posted By: BayouTodd
I hate to say this since I am the OP but I own a Honda HR215 (model #?)self propelled lawn mower which I have owned for 4-5 years. It ran fine until (!) my idiot son in law who was cutting our lawn decided to "work" on it since it kept bogging down in 14" grass, imagine that! I imagine he did something to the carb, it starts right up but soon as you take the choke off, it begins to stumble, then you have to choke it again to get it to idol, I checked the plug, emptied the carb bowel and all I can figure is he adjusted some screw on the carb, any suggestions?

Well good news, spent an hour on it over this past weekend; the mixture screw is not adjustable, its "locked in position" but it appears he did fool with the only other screw on the throttle linkage, he apparently ran it all the way in so I backed it off until it began to run fine and idol. It runs like new again. I can't understand what made him fool with it in the first place? Maybe it was the fact that he was trying to cut 14" grass on the wide open "speed" setting and the mower was bogging down/dying? DUH!
18.gif
IDIOT, glad their divorced now...
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