Briggs & Stratton better than Honda

[benjamming]

SM,

Provide some side-by-side comparison data to help me see your point. A lot of generalizations. Give me a table of what you are trying to prove. As of right now, the only thing you have proven is Master ACid's comment above with you getting all bent out of shape calling me basically stupid b/c they aren't as "smart" as you.

B&S designs and manages them? They brand label them so I guess they might design the label.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
SM,

Provide some side-by-side comparison data to help me see your point. A lot of generalizations...


Ben, I'm not sure it's worth the bandwidth! This poster has been trying to fluff & spin this topic since his/her first post. A troll just like any other we've seen come/go over the years.

Joel

 

[Rickey]

What an unfair comparison!....
Honda OHV VS: side valve Briggs... SILLY...Ha!
The Briggs would outlive two Honda plastic timing belts.
No brainier 'nuff said.

Rickey.

 

[RTexasF]

This thread is like trying to wizz up a rope.....there's no point to it.

 

[Rickey]

Originally Posted By: RTexasF
This thread is like trying to wizz up a rope.....there's no point to it.



Yes...any decent Small engine usually outlives the equipment its attached to in average service.
I have experience to back this up.
I have saved several of the survivor engines for spares which will probably never be used.

I still maintain that given enough replacement and maintenance of external parts that the Briggs side valve is superior in durability, serviceability, and longevity to the Honda OHV.
Now if you bring emissions, noise, or fuel economy into this, well its another story.

Rickey.

 

[flatlandtacoma]

Originally Posted By: Dad2leia
Just to interject here flatlandtacoma, I didn't even realize that Honda ever made flathead small engines. When did they, and were they comparable to the B&S engines in discussion?


I think Honda stopped making the G-series flatheads 20 or 25 years ago I guess. Probably about the time the OHV GX engines became proven. I think they were high quality, long lasting engines with bearings and such like the GX series are now.

Power output was directly comparable, about 2.5hp per 100cc of displacement. Honda G200 and GV200 were 5hp.

 

[flatlandtacoma]

Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
Oh my [censored], you're so clueless it hurts!

It is STUPID to try and compare a flathead briggs to an OHV honda.

Are you really that dense?

Again, comparing an OHV engine to a flathead is stupid.

Again, you're the only one who's wrong here. Comparing a flathead to an OHV is stupidity.


My, aren't you the little name caller.

Bottom line, people were discussing entry level consumer grade Hondas vs. entry level consumer grade B&S small engines.

If you buy a $200 MTD push mower powered by Honda, you are going to get an overhead cam engine. If you buy a $200 MTD push mower powered by Briggs, you are getting a flathead engine, NOT an Intek.

If you can't deal with that, I can't help you.

 

[Panzerman]

For mowing your lawn, you cant beat a Briggs, things are bullet proof, 80% of them never get their oil changed their whole life and run 10 years or more, before the deck rusts out. Honda motors are like high maintence woman, theyll do a good job but they need pampered and loved, mow that grass, throw it in the barn, put gas in it and that Briggs starts every time a puff of blue smoke and its off again. We threw one away once, found after 3 years of being in dump, changed the oil and put fresh gas in it and it ran like it was run everyday. Ive had the same one for 13 years, a 3.5 HP, cheap 80$ Murray, same air filter, oil changed once a year, thing starts first pull, no other maintence. Got a Honda Generator every 3 months have to start it, in about 3 pulls or its a extensive get it running ordeal, Briggs, old gas, used oil, puff of blue smoke and its running, one pull, everytime, every year.

 

[1999nick]

Originally Posted By: Rickey
What an unfair comparison!....
Honda OHV VS: side valve Briggs... SILLY...Ha!
The Briggs would outlive two Honda plastic timing belts.
No brainier 'nuff said.

Rickey.


I don't have any experience with a Honda OHV engine. They have a reputation for being extremely durable. I do have experience with the consumer grade Honda OHC 160 engine, which is found on many brands of lawnmowers, in addition to low end Hondas. You can find them on push mowers for as low as $200.

My Honda OHC is on a Craftsman mower, front wheel drive, that I purchased in 2000 for just under $300. I have an hour meter on it, and it now has about 420 hours on it. I use it about 60 hours a year. I use it year 'round, cleaning up leaves throughout the winter months. It is recommended to change the oil every 25 hours, but I only do it once a year.

The oil(I have always used Mobil 1 5W30) always looks really good after a year's usage, but I always change it anyway. The engine has never used ANY oil in a one year 60 hour OCI. It has never been down more than a sixteenth of an inch, which I attribut to regularly checking the oil level and wiping the dipstick.

Have you, or do you know of anyone who has had the timing belt break on one of these engines? Honda says they should need no replacement during their normal lifetime. Somewhere I read that they might need a valve clearance adjustment, but I can't imagine anyone having that done. For one thing, you would need to replace the cam cover, as it is impossible to remove without warping it. Anyway, mine has never been adjusted, and probably never will as it would cost too much to have it done professionally.

I have other OPE equipped with B&S and Tecumseh engines, and they are definitely not as smooth and quiet as the Honda.

 

[JTK]

Same here Nick. Had my GC160 since 1999, it's actually a 1998 model. It's on the second cheapest Honda Harmony you can buy. Steel deck, single speed self propelled. I've beat the [censored] out of it. Have only pulled and checked the spark plug (looks new yet) and replaced the a/f once. I typically just shop vac the filter. You'll notice with a side valve briggs you will stink of gas after using it. Not so with this OHC engine. Less stanky exhaust so I'd say it's safe to assume they have more efficient combustion than similar HP side valve engines.

Joel

 

[kargo27]

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
We threw one away once, found after 3 years of being in dump, changed the oil and put fresh gas in it and it ran like it was run everyday.


Panzer,

You should seriously call B&S and tell them that story. I'd bet they'd do a write up on it!

Karl

 

[Bror Jace]

I don't have a beef with any particular brand. My Dad has about a dozen pieces of OPE with a myriad of brands of engines ... new and old.

Other than a couple pieces of old equipment that were whooped before I started maintaining them, I have not had any longevity issues with any brand. Not a single engine has seized or blown up while I was the operator.

However, in my experience, the Hondas have been the class of the field. They are: easier to start, run quieter with less vibration and use less fuel than (seemingly comparable) Briggs & Stratton and Tecumseh engines.

Most notable is a 12.5hp B&S with their AVS system attached to a wood splitter. Engine has less than 20 hours on it, has had 3-4 oil changes and is already a bear to start.

He has a Honda 214 (Harmony?) mower that's about 25 years old and still runs pretty well and usually starts on the 2nd or third (easy) pull.

I cannot make direct comparisons between exact conterpart engines ... very few of us can do that ... but those are my impressions after using OPE heavily for a couple decades.

 

[flatlandtacoma]

Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
I cannot make direct comparisons between exact conterpart engines ... very few of us can do that ... but those are my impressions after using OPE heavily for a couple decades.

Agreed. And I've run a few of the different brands myself. If people want to believe the B&S is superior to the Honda, I guess they will.

But for the record, the Honda GX OHV engine is no more complicated than the B&S OHV Intek. They both have the same number of moving parts in the exact same place. Is the Honda entry level GC more complicated than a Briggs entry level Intek or flathead? Yes, but I don't ever intend to take it apart, and probably won't ever have a reason to.

I especially love this quote:
Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
It is STUPID to try and compare a flathead briggs to an OHV honda. They are different machines, designed to do different things!

They are both designed to spin a mower blade at 3000 rpm. Or run a pump, generator, compressor or what-have-you. "designed to do different things" ??

 

[Gilitar]

I think the main issue in small engines is whether the cylinder is cast iron or aluminum. This, IMO, makes the biggest difference in life expectancy.

Briggs vs Honda?

If I'm buying a cheap mower I'll take the Briggs or Tecumseh because I know that the mower will wear out before the engine anyway.

Also, the Toro that I bought last summer has a Tecumseh and I have to say that it is quiter and easier on gas than the Briggs I had before.

 

[jsharp]

Originally Posted By: Master ACiD
the honda ohv isnt any more complicated than a briggs ohv, or a tecumseh ohv. is he talking about briggs flathead engines? yeah those are simple motors.

its the same argument that old shop owners make for the chevy 350 engine. you will never convence them anything but an american engine is better.
iffn you want a low performance flat head thats 1920's technology, gulps gas like its free and never really runs good or starts good then yeah buy a flathead.
but the rest of the world has moved onto better technology.

can you even buy flatheads anymore?


Isn't it the truth. If you want 50's technology buy a flat head Briggs. The only thing that's changed on them since that time is their begrudging addition of electronic ignition.

Briggs flatheads = hard to start, gas guzzling, oil sucking, 200 hour life (if you're lucky!) disposable engines.

To answer some of the other comments - Honda did make 3.5 and 5 HP flathead engines in the late 70's and early 80's. Yet they still had electronic ignition, pressurized lubrication, and long life. I had a 21" Honda mower with a 3.5 HP flathead engine and it used less than 1/2 the fuel of the Tecumseh engined mower it replaced while having substantially more power. Maybe Honda horses are bigger?

Whoever posted to stay away from aluminum cylinders is right. Even Honda has gone to building cheap aluminum cylinder models now. Obviously they see the disposable Briggs engines as some benchmark in short life/cheap and figure they too can build one and get away with it.

And as far as the people claiming the Briggs Vanguards are great and trying to use them to illustrate Briggs quality, give up. They are are good engines. But the only thing Briggs and Stratton on them are the nameplates. They're made in Japan by Mitsubishi or Daihatsu depending on cylinder configuration...

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: jsharp
Even Honda has gone to building cheap aluminum cylinder models now. Obviously they see the disposable Briggs engines as some benchmark in short life/cheap and figure they too can build one and get away with it.


The difference is that Honda will charge a premium for [censored] technology, because you get the joy of seeing their logo on the sticker on the engine. For me? No thanks.

Ill take as simple an engine as I can, one that I can run practically any fuel into, and not have a worry or care about (besides the same rigorous PM that any rotating machinery I own gets).

And our flathead briggs have been able to last much longer than 200 hours in severe home service. Maintenance is the key on ANY engine.

For a generator, power washer, etc? give me a robin or honda Preferably robin though, IMO they are the better pick for longevity, qualty and fuel economy, even over the better Honda GX line. For a mower? Honda is way overpriced, and youll never make up the difference on fuel savings or longevity for a home user. Especially since youre getting their GC line of engines which arent built to cater to the more demanding crown that the GX line does. If your need isnt that demanding, again, why pay the premium? Youll never recoup it over a flathead cheapo B&S. YMMV, and I appreciate reading others' opinions.

JMH

 

[Gilitar]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: jsharp
Even Honda has gone to building cheap aluminum cylinder models now. Obviously they see the disposable Briggs engines as some benchmark in short life/cheap and figure they too can build one and get away with it.


The difference is that Honda will charge a premium for [censored] technology, because you get the joy of seeing their logo on the sticker on the engine. For me? No thanks.

Ill take as simple an engine as I can, one that I can run practically any fuel into, and not have a worry or care about (besides the same rigorous PM that any rotating machinery I own gets).

And our flathead briggs have been able to last much longer than 200 hours in severe home service. Maintenance is the key on ANY engine.

For a generator, power washer, etc? give me a robin or honda Preferably robin though, IMO they are the better pick for longevity, qualty and fuel economy, even over the better Honda GX line. For a mower? Honda is way overpriced, and youll never make up the difference on fuel savings or longevity for a home user. Especially since youre getting their GC line of engines which arent built to cater to the more demanding crown that the GX line does. If your need isnt that demanding, again, why pay the premium? Youll never recoup it over a flathead cheapo B&S. YMMV, and I appreciate reading others' opinions.

JMH


Very good post! I agree with you completely.

 

[dwendt44]

Part of the reason that Honda gets better 'mileage' is their use of better carburetors.
Had similar results with my snowmobile back in the day.
Put a Mikuni on and it get noticeable better mileage.

 

[1999nick]

Originally Posted By: Gilitar
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: jsharp
Even Honda has gone to building cheap aluminum cylinder models now. Obviously they see the disposable Briggs engines as some benchmark in short life/cheap and figure they too can build one and get away with it.


The difference is that Honda will charge a premium for [censored] technology, because you get the joy of seeing their logo on the sticker on the engine. For me? No thanks.

Ill take as simple an engine as I can, one that I can run practically any fuel into, and not have a worry or care about (besides the same rigorous PM that any rotating machinery I own gets).

And our flathead briggs have been able to last much longer than 200 hours in severe home service. Maintenance is the key on ANY engine.

For a generator, power washer, etc? give me a robin or honda Preferably robin though, IMO they are the better pick for longevity, qualty and fuel economy, even over the better Honda GX line. For a mower? Honda is way overpriced, and youll never make up the difference on fuel savings or longevity for a home user. Especially since youre getting their GC line of engines which arent built to cater to the more demanding crown that the GX line does. If your need isnt that demanding, again, why pay the premium? Youll never recoup it over a flathead cheapo B&S. YMMV, and I appreciate reading others' opinions.

JMH


Very good post! I agree with you completely.


Quite obviously, none of you has bought or used the Honda 160 OHC engine that is used on many brands of mower in addition to low end Hondas. They do not cost much of a premium over a flathead B&S or Tecumseh. They can be had on push mowers for just a little over $200 and in self-propelled mode for less than $300.True, they are aluminum, just like most low priced OPE engines, and many automobile engines. What's wrong with that?They seem to cost about $20 more than either flat head on these low priced machines, and they are well worth that.

My Honda OHC is on a Craftsman mower I purchased in 2000. First thing I did after using the 30 weight oil that it came with for 5 hours, was to change it over to Mobil 1 5W30, and have changed it yearly ever since. I also installed an hour meter on it, and it obviously going to last much longer than 200 hours. It presently has something over 420 hours on it, and it has yet to use any oil in a one year, 60 to 65 hour OCI.

This Sears mower has required some repairs. I have replaced all 4 wheels. The rear wheels split apart, about a year apart, at the 4 to 5 year mark. The transmission had the gears wear almost smooth at the 5 year mark, and I replaced it. In the past, I would have junked and replaced a mower requiring these repairs, but I am now retired and have plenty of time, and I want to see just how long this Honda engine will last. So far, there is no indication that it has suffered any significant wear at all. The oil still stays pretty clean from one year to the next, and I am always tempted to let it go one more year, but I always end up changing it.

Give me the choice, and I'll always take the good old Honda made in North Carolina.

 

[Gilitar]

Originally Posted By: 1999nick

Quite obviously, none of you has bought or used the Honda 160 OHC engine that is used on many brands of mower in addition to low end Hondas. They do not cost much of a premium over a flathead B&S or Tecumseh. They can be had on push mowers for just a little over $200 and in self-propelled mode for less than $300.True, they are aluminum, just like most low priced OPE engines, and many automobile engines. What's wrong with that?


From my understanding aluminum sleeves were tried by GM once and it didn't take them long to find out they had actually made mosquito killers instead.