Hmmm...what a passionate subject! The Mexican-assembled Honda 5.5s seem to be a little suspect. Much like the 3.5 - 4.5 HP Briggs Quatro (tank-mounted carb) engines. You get what you pay for. I wouldn't put up a 6 HP Quantum engine against a Japanese/American-assembled Honda engine if my life hung in the balance, but feel like they're fairly close on the quality scale. I see as many as 80 different engines in those sizes (all the different brands) in the course of a Summer. Tecumseh is the engine I always loved that has severely fallen from grace due to cost-cutting measures and ninkompoop answers to meeting EPA standards.
Briggs & Stratton better than Honda
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Originally Posted By: yeehaw1960
Hmmm...what a passionate subject! The Mexican-assembled Honda 5.5s seem to be a little suspect. Much like the 3.5 - 4.5 HP Briggs Quatro (tank-mounted carb) engines. You get what you pay for. I wouldn't put up a 6 HP Quantum engine against a Japanese/American-assembled Honda engine if my life hung in the balance, but feel like they're fairly close on the quality scale. I see as many as 80 different engines in those sizes (all the different brands) in the course of a Summer. Tecumseh is the engine I always loved that has severely fallen from grace due to cost-cutting measures and ninkompoop answers to meeting EPA standards.
This is the first I have heard of a Mexican assembled Honda 5.5 engine. I would imagine that all of the Honda 5.5's sold in the US are made in North Carolina, as they just, in 2004, expanded that plant to a production capacity of 1,500,000 engines annually. Are you by any chance suggesting that they have a Mexican workforce in that plant>
Hmmm...what a passionate subject! The Mexican-assembled Honda 5.5s seem to be a little suspect. Much like the 3.5 - 4.5 HP Briggs Quatro (tank-mounted carb) engines. You get what you pay for. I wouldn't put up a 6 HP Quantum engine against a Japanese/American-assembled Honda engine if my life hung in the balance, but feel like they're fairly close on the quality scale. I see as many as 80 different engines in those sizes (all the different brands) in the course of a Summer. Tecumseh is the engine I always loved that has severely fallen from grace due to cost-cutting measures and ninkompoop answers to meeting EPA standards.
This is the first I have heard of a Mexican assembled Honda 5.5 engine. I would imagine that all of the Honda 5.5's sold in the US are made in North Carolina, as they just, in 2004, expanded that plant to a production capacity of 1,500,000 engines annually. Are you by any chance suggesting that they have a Mexican workforce in that plant>
Oops...my mistake. Not the engines themselves, but the cheaper, belt-driven, flimsy-deck Hondas and other brands you might find at Home Depot. AND, by the way, illegal immigrants can't get a job in the United States...that would be against the law. Oops again!
"Maybe the 15w-40 oil made it tougher to pull start than a lighter weight oil would?"
Vaca, it pulled over easy enough ... just won't fire reliably in cool weather. Had to hit it with ether to get it started.
It's not without its charms, though. We ran it about two hours at WOT ... didn't consume a drop of oil.
Vaca, it pulled over easy enough ... just won't fire reliably in cool weather. Had to hit it with ether to get it started.
It's not without its charms, though. We ran it about two hours at WOT ... didn't consume a drop of oil.
2 year old briggs 18hp v twin in a Deere lawn tractor. Thing cranks and cranks but won't start and ends up killing the battery . Come to find out from the dealer(s) the valves stick and "they all do it". I was presented 2 options. The official Deere solution of putting a bigger battery in it (what they did to the following years instead of fixing the problem!). owner just cranks and cranks until the valve shakes loose. Or I can manually lift the hood and roll the flywheel CCW before each cold start, which seems to work. Wouldn't buy another one, deere or v twin briggs.
When it came time to replace the 35 yo Briggs engine on a 1970 Ariens Sno Thro, we found that Honda does not sell snow engines - although they make snow throwers.
By contrast, Briggs had an engine that bolted up to the Tecumseh mounting holes, with the same shaft height and diameter. I was able to call their customer support team and get answers on dimensions. they even had a data sheet on the one change required: rerouting the chute crank with a u-joint. Honda will not take calls, referring everyone to the dealer, who had no one on staff that could answer any questions. I thought $425 was a little dear for a 6.5hp motor, to boot.
I bought a Briggs Intek Snow 7.5hp online for less than $300. It turned that old Ariens into a monster.
By contrast, Briggs had an engine that bolted up to the Tecumseh mounting holes, with the same shaft height and diameter. I was able to call their customer support team and get answers on dimensions. they even had a data sheet on the one change required: rerouting the chute crank with a u-joint. Honda will not take calls, referring everyone to the dealer, who had no one on staff that could answer any questions. I thought $425 was a little dear for a 6.5hp motor, to boot.
I bought a Briggs Intek Snow 7.5hp online for less than $300. It turned that old Ariens into a monster.
Hey Garandman, that's really cool. I'm not surprised you got no help from Honda retrofitting an engine to some other machine. I AM surprised you got such excellent service from ANY company on such a project.
That 35 year-old Ariens looks super. Did you repaint it?
Hey, I just realized, you're one person that managed to wear out an small engine before the machine it's attached to rotted away or fell apart. What's your secret?
That 35 year-old Ariens looks super. Did you repaint it?
Hey, I just realized, you're one person that managed to wear out an small engine before the machine it's attached to rotted away or fell apart. What's your secret?
No doubt, that thing looks brand spanking new!
Does it ever get any use or is it a museum piece?
Does it ever get any use or is it a museum piece?
Funny topic!
I can rebuild a Honda OHV/OHC just as fast as I can a OHV/flathead Briggs. Difference is that you talked to an old man that has worked on the briggs for years and is new to the Hondas.
For the guys that say Briggs will last just as long as the Hondas, Hate to break it to you but your wrong. You can get engines to last a very long time with maintanence but the Hondas will generally last longer.
Before I get jumped on by everyone for the last paragraph - I was at a Briggs meeting the other day and they have some new Generators, Air compressors, Water Pumps coming out. They are going to 3 different series (Basically Good, Better, Best) Do any of you know what engine will be on the "Best"(vox i think they call it) line???????
Yes it is the Honda engine!
I'll get my popcorn and wait for the responces!! haha
I can rebuild a Honda OHV/OHC just as fast as I can a OHV/flathead Briggs. Difference is that you talked to an old man that has worked on the briggs for years and is new to the Hondas.
For the guys that say Briggs will last just as long as the Hondas, Hate to break it to you but your wrong. You can get engines to last a very long time with maintanence but the Hondas will generally last longer.
Before I get jumped on by everyone for the last paragraph - I was at a Briggs meeting the other day and they have some new Generators, Air compressors, Water Pumps coming out. They are going to 3 different series (Basically Good, Better, Best) Do any of you know what engine will be on the "Best"(vox i think they call it) line???????
Yes it is the Honda engine!
I'll get my popcorn and wait for the responces!! haha
Originally Posted By: yeehaw1960
Oops...my mistake. Not the engines themselves, but the cheaper, belt-driven, flimsy-deck Hondas and other brands you might find at Home Depot. AND, by the way, illegal immigrants can't get a job in the United States...that would be against the law. Oops again!
I would like to hear more about this "flimsy deck" Honda mower that you say exists?
Oops...my mistake. Not the engines themselves, but the cheaper, belt-driven, flimsy-deck Hondas and other brands you might find at Home Depot. AND, by the way, illegal immigrants can't get a job in the United States...that would be against the law. Oops again!
I would like to hear more about this "flimsy deck" Honda mower that you say exists?
Originally Posted By: NThomas
I was at a Briggs meeting the other day and they have some new Generators, Air compressors, Water Pumps coming out. They are going to 3 different series (Basically Good, Better, Best) Do any of you know what engine will be on the "Best"(vox i think they call it) line???????
Yes it is the Honda engine!
NThomas, I think you just posted a topic-killer! I doubt this thread will see many more posts...
I think, while even this point may be debated, it can generally be said that Hondas utilize "better" engineering and are appropriately more expensive. Those who are concerned mostly with cost vs. benefit will scoff at the more expensive Honda that can "do the same thing" as other engines.
But Briggs & Stratton doesn't seem to think so. It makes sense that the pricier Honda engine is for the top model, for consumers who have extra money to throw into such a purchase. Is there any website where we can find out more about the new B&S line-up?
I was at a Briggs meeting the other day and they have some new Generators, Air compressors, Water Pumps coming out. They are going to 3 different series (Basically Good, Better, Best) Do any of you know what engine will be on the "Best"(vox i think they call it) line???????
Yes it is the Honda engine!
NThomas, I think you just posted a topic-killer! I doubt this thread will see many more posts...
I think, while even this point may be debated, it can generally be said that Hondas utilize "better" engineering and are appropriately more expensive. Those who are concerned mostly with cost vs. benefit will scoff at the more expensive Honda that can "do the same thing" as other engines.
But Briggs & Stratton doesn't seem to think so. It makes sense that the pricier Honda engine is for the top model, for consumers who have extra money to throw into such a purchase. Is there any website where we can find out more about the new B&S line-up?
Another thing that was interesting in this meeting that some of you may be interested in.
We had to sit through a video presentation and a speaker talk about how it was "ok" for them to make engines in China. They were trying hard to make it look like a good deal for everyone.
I just wonder why Honda and Kawasaki can make engines here and make money but these "American" companies have to go to China to make money.
Oh well
We had to sit through a video presentation and a speaker talk about how it was "ok" for them to make engines in China. They were trying hard to make it look like a good deal for everyone.
I just wonder why Honda and Kawasaki can make engines here and make money but these "American" companies have to go to China to make money.
Oh well
JTK
$100 Site Donor 2025
Originally Posted By: NThomas
I just wonder why Honda and Kawasaki can make engines here and make money but these "American" companies have to go to China to make money.
Mis-management and greed are probably #1 and 2. If Honda and Kawi were to mass produce and slap engines on every price-point piece of OPE sold everywhere, they too would have to have the engines built in China to turn a meager profit. Generally speaking, Kawi and Honda engines are only on higher end equipment. Items with a bigger profit margin.
Joel
I just wonder why Honda and Kawasaki can make engines here and make money but these "American" companies have to go to China to make money.
Mis-management and greed are probably #1 and 2. If Honda and Kawi were to mass produce and slap engines on every price-point piece of OPE sold everywhere, they too would have to have the engines built in China to turn a meager profit. Generally speaking, Kawi and Honda engines are only on higher end equipment. Items with a bigger profit margin.
Joel
Last edited:
Honda does have engines on Crapsman units, so that doesnt always apply.
I would just say Honda and Kawi. are smarter.
Instead of making an engine to the manufacture spec. Honda and Kawi. make an engine and say "Here it is, if you want it then build around it"
They are generally on better pieces of equipment which is what people want. They all make a decent engine but some are better than others.
I would just say Honda and Kawi. are smarter.
Instead of making an engine to the manufacture spec. Honda and Kawi. make an engine and say "Here it is, if you want it then build around it"
They are generally on better pieces of equipment which is what people want. They all make a decent engine but some are better than others.
JTK
$100 Site Donor 2025
Originally Posted By: NThomas
Honda does have engines on Crapsman units, so that doesnt always apply.
Yep, Honda GC series are on lots of mid-range OPE now. I'm not positive, but I don't think the GC series engines are made in the US or Japan. In other words, GC's are quickly going the way of Briggs and others.
Joel
Honda does have engines on Crapsman units, so that doesnt always apply.
Yep, Honda GC series are on lots of mid-range OPE now. I'm not positive, but I don't think the GC series engines are made in the US or Japan. In other words, GC's are quickly going the way of Briggs and others.
Joel
JTK
$100 Site Donor 2025
Ahh.. Thanks. I'm confusing the GC's with those OHV Kawasaki (sort-of)look-a-likes from China that you see on lots of push mowers now.
Joel
Joel
Originally Posted By: NThomas
Funny topic!
I can rebuild a Honda OHV/OHC just as fast as I can a OHV/flathead Briggs. Difference is that you talked to an old man that has worked on the briggs for years and is new to the Hondas.
For the guys that say Briggs will last just as long as the Hondas, Hate to break it to you but your wrong. You can get engines to last a very long time with maintanence but the Hondas will generally last longer.
Before I get jumped on by everyone for the last paragraph - I was at a Briggs meeting the other day and they have some new Generators, Air compressors, Water Pumps coming out. They are going to 3 different series (Basically Good, Better, Best) Do any of you know what engine will be on the "Best"(vox i think they call it) line???????
Yes it is the Honda engine!
I'll get my popcorn and wait for the responces!! haha
Well, you'll get no flame from me. I just reported what I was told by the old guy.
Agreed. If you say that you can rebuild a B&S as fast as a Honda, then I have no reason to doubt you.
What are the cost differences between the two makes, anyway? Comparing apples to apples that is (Good, Better, Best). If those variables are close, as well as rebuild costs then I may be swayed to a Honda or Kawi. I went into that shop believing Honda was best and left it rethinking those beliefs.
I, personally just use my mower to cut the yard, I don't make a living using it. If I was in that boat, I'd probably think differently and get better equipment for the job. I doubt that I'd be using that flat-head Briggs that I cut my yard with either.
Still, a 2hp edger that ran for 30 years without a rebuild and with poor maintenance (dad wasn't the best at oil changes) has some merit. It was a Briggs built in 1970 or 1972 and we used it to edge the yards at my folks house plus a rent house. It's hard for me to dismiss that engine longevity. Maybe as you said the Honda would have lasted as long or longer.
Funny topic!
I can rebuild a Honda OHV/OHC just as fast as I can a OHV/flathead Briggs. Difference is that you talked to an old man that has worked on the briggs for years and is new to the Hondas.
For the guys that say Briggs will last just as long as the Hondas, Hate to break it to you but your wrong. You can get engines to last a very long time with maintanence but the Hondas will generally last longer.
Before I get jumped on by everyone for the last paragraph - I was at a Briggs meeting the other day and they have some new Generators, Air compressors, Water Pumps coming out. They are going to 3 different series (Basically Good, Better, Best) Do any of you know what engine will be on the "Best"(vox i think they call it) line???????
Yes it is the Honda engine!
I'll get my popcorn and wait for the responces!! haha
Well, you'll get no flame from me. I just reported what I was told by the old guy.
Agreed. If you say that you can rebuild a B&S as fast as a Honda, then I have no reason to doubt you.
What are the cost differences between the two makes, anyway? Comparing apples to apples that is (Good, Better, Best). If those variables are close, as well as rebuild costs then I may be swayed to a Honda or Kawi. I went into that shop believing Honda was best and left it rethinking those beliefs.
I, personally just use my mower to cut the yard, I don't make a living using it. If I was in that boat, I'd probably think differently and get better equipment for the job. I doubt that I'd be using that flat-head Briggs that I cut my yard with either.
Still, a 2hp edger that ran for 30 years without a rebuild and with poor maintenance (dad wasn't the best at oil changes) has some merit. It was a Briggs built in 1970 or 1972 and we used it to edge the yards at my folks house plus a rent house. It's hard for me to dismiss that engine longevity. Maybe as you said the Honda would have lasted as long or longer.
Really it has some to do with luck! I have some people that will kill their machine in 5 years, others will have it for 20+ years. Some people will have problems with gas varnishing and others wont. It is really hard to tell.
The major thing with a mower, for example, is the rest of the machine. Yes, the Briggs can last 20 years but will the rest of the machine? Generally the mowers that I have seen last the longest is Honda, Toro and Snapper. I would put the Toro at the bottom of the 3 for reliability. It is still a good machine and better than most just more repairs than the others. Honda is the only machine that will come in 25 years later that will roll like it is brand new. But they also cost a little more for the better units.
Anyway, prolly not answering any questions. On to price.
Lets just take the Honda GC OHC compared to a OHV or flathead Briggs(because thats what most homeowners will use). Cost = Retail they are about the same $250 for the engine. You can get a Briggs for a little less when sales come about, around $200.
Lets now talk ease of repair and parts cost -
Lets say you break a rope / Briggs = Take top cover off undo 3 screws, maybe 4 if you want to take the whole gas tank off, then 4 more screw to get to the starter housing, restring OR buy new pulley and spring Maybe $15 or so for pulley and spring and the time it takes you to do it.
Honda = 3 nuts on to and the whole assy. comes off restring OR just buy the whole assy. for $20 and replace. 5 min. max
Carb. issues with Briggs lets say you need a new one $40 - $60
Not to bad to replace, few screws for AF cover a couple for the carb.
The Honda you have 2 screws which releases everything and is a bit trickier to put back together but really not a big deal. $20 for the whole carb!
To replace one on each it should take you the same amount of time, if you are good the Honda will take slightly less.
So much for Honda being expensive! They are more $ on comm. units but we were strictly talking homeowner units.
I get a lot of people that say "I just use it for home" But they have a big lifted Ford that they "just use to drive around town"
We all want a nice car "to drive around" or a nice house "to sleep" so why not a mower or trimmer or blower? I can say if you buy a nice mower/trimmer/blower you will have more fun, be happier and not dred doing yardwork. I had a corner lot and would trim the whole thing in 5-10 min. the neighbor across the street (same corner type lot) would take 30 min. Commercial pieces will only make your job easier and save you in the long run! Not just by it lasting longer but time it takes and how you feel when you use it.
The major thing with a mower, for example, is the rest of the machine. Yes, the Briggs can last 20 years but will the rest of the machine? Generally the mowers that I have seen last the longest is Honda, Toro and Snapper. I would put the Toro at the bottom of the 3 for reliability. It is still a good machine and better than most just more repairs than the others. Honda is the only machine that will come in 25 years later that will roll like it is brand new. But they also cost a little more for the better units.
Anyway, prolly not answering any questions. On to price.
Lets just take the Honda GC OHC compared to a OHV or flathead Briggs(because thats what most homeowners will use). Cost = Retail they are about the same $250 for the engine. You can get a Briggs for a little less when sales come about, around $200.
Lets now talk ease of repair and parts cost -
Lets say you break a rope / Briggs = Take top cover off undo 3 screws, maybe 4 if you want to take the whole gas tank off, then 4 more screw to get to the starter housing, restring OR buy new pulley and spring Maybe $15 or so for pulley and spring and the time it takes you to do it.
Honda = 3 nuts on to and the whole assy. comes off restring OR just buy the whole assy. for $20 and replace. 5 min. max
Carb. issues with Briggs lets say you need a new one $40 - $60
Not to bad to replace, few screws for AF cover a couple for the carb.
The Honda you have 2 screws which releases everything and is a bit trickier to put back together but really not a big deal. $20 for the whole carb!
To replace one on each it should take you the same amount of time, if you are good the Honda will take slightly less.
So much for Honda being expensive! They are more $ on comm. units but we were strictly talking homeowner units.
I get a lot of people that say "I just use it for home" But they have a big lifted Ford that they "just use to drive around town"
We all want a nice car "to drive around" or a nice house "to sleep" so why not a mower or trimmer or blower? I can say if you buy a nice mower/trimmer/blower you will have more fun, be happier and not dred doing yardwork. I had a corner lot and would trim the whole thing in 5-10 min. the neighbor across the street (same corner type lot) would take 30 min. Commercial pieces will only make your job easier and save you in the long run! Not just by it lasting longer but time it takes and how you feel when you use it.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: NThomas
I just wonder why Honda and Kawasaki can make engines here and make money but these "American" companies have to go to China to make money.
Mis-management and greed are probably #1 and 2. If Honda and Kawi were to mass produce and slap engines on every price-point piece of OPE sold everywhere, they too would have to have the engines built in China to turn a meager profit. Generally speaking, Kawi and Honda engines are only on higher end equipment. Items with a bigger profit margin.
Joel
Yep, in reality, folks will shell out more $$$ for honda products on a so-called "smart" buy... so in the big scheme of things, they can afford to have a more expensive product on their line, since in the aggregate, they are making more per unit. THis doesnt discount greed, etc. of course.
The real intelligence, IMO? If you want low-end, get a flathead briggs that you can run old, sale gas, 2-cycle mix, even some kerosine, etc. in without a big issue. If you want good engines, buy a robin subaru. IMO, even the GX hondas do not compare.
I for one have never seen a $130 honda lawnmower, or even a no-name brand with a honda engine. I have seen at least three different power levels (and at least two different engine designs) of briggs engines by the time you hit $200. It just isnt as 1:1 as people want to claim.
JMH
Originally Posted By: NThomas
I just wonder why Honda and Kawasaki can make engines here and make money but these "American" companies have to go to China to make money.
Mis-management and greed are probably #1 and 2. If Honda and Kawi were to mass produce and slap engines on every price-point piece of OPE sold everywhere, they too would have to have the engines built in China to turn a meager profit. Generally speaking, Kawi and Honda engines are only on higher end equipment. Items with a bigger profit margin.
Joel
Yep, in reality, folks will shell out more $$$ for honda products on a so-called "smart" buy... so in the big scheme of things, they can afford to have a more expensive product on their line, since in the aggregate, they are making more per unit. THis doesnt discount greed, etc. of course.
The real intelligence, IMO? If you want low-end, get a flathead briggs that you can run old, sale gas, 2-cycle mix, even some kerosine, etc. in without a big issue. If you want good engines, buy a robin subaru. IMO, even the GX hondas do not compare.
I for one have never seen a $130 honda lawnmower, or even a no-name brand with a honda engine. I have seen at least three different power levels (and at least two different engine designs) of briggs engines by the time you hit $200. It just isnt as 1:1 as people want to claim.
JMH
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