Break-In Oil. Theories.

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Ridiculous prejudicial baloney being spewed, no more usable info of any kind.

Just because someone hasn't heard of an American car going 500k miles doesn't mean it's going to happen.

It's happened here. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

2004 GMC Savana 3500 extended wheelbase van, weighs just shy of 6k pounds new and empty. Load it with 3k of cleaning equipment driven directly off the engine (6.0 gas) and then use it in all urban driving and thousands of hours of stationary operation. Sold at 500k miles with no smoke, no leaks, and nil consumption. Always changed per OLM. STILL WORKING TODAY!

Try that with any import, you'll not even get close...


You sure about that?

http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/heres-what-a-toyota-truck-looks-like-after-1-000-000-mi-1776141464

Toyota even tore it down.

http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/project-trucks/1705-million-mile-tundra-the-tear-down/

 

[bunnspecial]

I've known of many Ford Modulars in Crown Vics, Grand Marquis, and Town Cars that made it well past 400K without having had the engine opened.

As for the comment about all British being junk, I could pull the head off my MG, lap in new valves, and have it running in an evening. I tend to work at a slower pace than that, but it can be done. Now that I've basically gone through every system on the car and taken care of problems related to age and neglect(an issue on cars of any origin) I'd have no problem hopping in it and driving it across the country or depending on it as a DD. The engine has ~100K miles-it gives me 50psi of hot idle oil pressure and 170psi across the board of compression(yes, I've modified the engine for higher compression). I expect that there's probably 50K more miles on the engine before needing a full rebuild.

 

[AirgunSavant]

Said tongue and cheek to elicit nonsense from a drama queen such as you.
No manufacturer ever back spec'd another oil or had TSB's after the car left the manufacturer's facility..... Right? lol!
All engineering is perfection right out of the gate... What world do you live in?
Why would you even need break in oil on a new OEM car?


Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Bud
Yes, that just has to be Honda's reason. Engineering defect in all the engines they produce. Makes sense.

And not only that, a specific and ongoing engineering defect that is correctable by using a special break-in oil.

 

[HondaRULZ]

Originally Posted By: nola000
Quote:
I say that because I've never heard of an American brand car going 4, 5 or 6 hundred thousand
miles without being cracked open. I've read of several, even numerous Japanese
autos doing that.
I'm skeptical that their factories are that much different than ours are, even if they
pay more attention to details.


Just my wandering mind expression a thought here.


I read a really good article years ago about why Japan is so good in the manufacturing realm and while its too long to post here its basically summed up by saying that in the US you go to school and get an MBA and you get employed initially and forever in upper management, you go to school and get an engineering degree you get employed initially and forever in R&D. In Japan, everyone cross-trains in multiple disciplines within the corporation so before you even enter upper management you have a firm grasp of how the products are built and what it takes. This manifest itself as an overall company philosophy as dedicated to reliability and quality as it is to counting-beans and designing 4-color brochures. Add in the fact that the Japanese value honor and the Americans value the almighty dollar and you end up with two completely different results at the consumer product level.


^this

 

[AirgunSavant]

Japanese make excellent machines and tooling in my industry but honestly it took the Japanese 30 years to get a good paint job here and some rust protection. It ain't all roses. Honda was about the last to get SS exhaust. It took Subaru 30 years to build a quirk-less mainstream car for our market. Funky was the word. The Japanese got great gas mileage by building light weight tin cans in the day. Today I'll stick with American cars but I buy what I like. To each his own.

Originally Posted By: HondaRULZ
Originally Posted By: nola000
Quote:
I say that because I've never heard of an American brand car going 4, 5 or 6 hundred thousand
miles without being cracked open. I've read of several, even numerous Japanese
autos doing that.
I'm skeptical that their factories are that much different than ours are, even if they
pay more attention to details.


Just my wandering mind expression a thought here.


I read a really good article years ago about why Japan is so good in the manufacturing realm and while its too long to post here its basically summed up by saying that in the US you go to school and get an MBA and you get employed initially and forever in upper management, you go to school and get an engineering degree you get employed initially and forever in R&D. In Japan, everyone cross-trains in multiple disciplines within the corporation so before you even enter upper management you have a firm grasp of how the products are built and what it takes. This manifest itself as an overall company philosophy as dedicated to reliability and quality as it is to counting-beans and designing 4-color brochures. Add in the fact that the Japanese value honor and the Americans value the almighty dollar and you end up with two completely different results at the consumer product level.


^this

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Ridiculous prejudicial baloney being spewed, no more usable info of any kind.

Just because someone hasn't heard of an American car going 500k miles doesn't mean it's going to happen.

It's happened here. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

2004 GMC Savana 3500 extended wheelbase van, weighs just shy of 6k pounds new and empty. Load it with 3k of cleaning equipment driven directly off the engine (6.0 gas) and then use it in all urban driving and thousands of hours of stationary operation. Sold at 500k miles with no smoke, no leaks, and nil consumption. Always changed per OLM. STILL WORKING TODAY!

Try that with any import, you'll not even get close...

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Said tongue and cheek to elicit nonsense from a drama queen such as you.
No manufacturer ever back spec'd another oil or had TSB's after the car left the manufacturer's facility..... Right? lol!
All engineering is perfection right out of the gate... What world do you live in?
Why would you even need break in oil on a new OEM car?


What are you going on about?

 

[AirgunSavant]

Not addressed to you as you may see at the top.

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Said tongue and cheek to elicit nonsense from a drama queen such as you.
No manufacturer ever back spec'd another oil or had TSB's after the car left the manufacturer's facility..... Right? lol!
All engineering is perfection right out of the gate... What world do you live in?
Why would you even need break in oil on a new OEM car?


What are you going on about?

 

[Mainia]

Honda has a high moly factory fill.

Mazda with Sky Active motor does too.

Those are the two I know of.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Said tongue and cheek to elicit nonsense from a drama queen such as you

You're the one who makes a goofy statement with nothing obvious to indicate that it's "tongue and cheek" and I'm the drama queen. Right.

I'm not the only one who called you out, why not respond to them too?

 

[BrocLuno]

There is a lot of stuff being tossed about here. The break-in oil for any engine depends on the build - period.

You take a mild OEM engine and just rebuild it - use normal oil. It got to a couple of 100K that way, no change needed.

You take an OEM head(s) and block and do much to step up the power curve and you have introduced new forces at play. Cams and lifters are experiencing higher pressure and the whole engine is experiencing more sustained high RPM running. Fuel consumption curves have changed, so the heat cycles have changed. Chains and gear tuning those higher load components are under higher stress, etc. You need to up your oil game to meet those new demands.

GM used to sell a product called EOS to add to regular oil during break-in. Don't know if they still do ... Was very well respected among the hot-rod community for doing break-ins w/o failures.

Most mildly modded motors I build will get SAE 30 HD (no VII's, all oil) and 2 ounces ounces of ZDDP additive from Rislone. I have about 20 bottles left from race motor build days. This is because I can not get Valvoline VR-1 Silver Bottle in Calif...

All the stock'ish engines I build get Chevron Delo 400 15W-30 SD (severe duty) because it's a fine quality dino oil with as good an add pak as you can get on a store shelf around here. Since it's an new rebuild, I know the bearing clearances and 30 will work fine for them.

A full race engine will get Red Line or Motul 300V and not look back. But that's bordering on $16+/L around here and not needed for OEM or mild modded motors ...

As to whether a rebuild can out-live an OEM, sure they can. One, they have seasoned blocks and heads. It all depends on parts selection and mostly machine work. You get the right shop to build your motor, it can run circles around the OEM motor and out last it. But most folks won't pay for that level of work ...

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
GM used to sell a product called EOS to add to regular oil during break-in. Don't know if they still do ... Was very well respected among the hot-rod community for doing break-ins w/o failures.

I saw it on an AC Delco affiliated store shelf here recently.