Break-In Oil. Theories.

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I would say that changing the filter is also important. IF you changed it as often as the oil, you're looking at over 10% of the total rebuild basically accomplishing nothing. If the rebuild is as bad as you observe, you will likely end up using oil no matter what you try.

I wouldn't expect any rebuilt engine to last to even half the original life from the factory. I do like the suggestion of picking up long block from a salvage yard, especially on an appliance vehicle. It would last you longer than a rebuild in all likelihood.

On the way back from the pool last night, my daughter asked me why our Civic didn't have AC vents in the rear like our BMW. I had to try to explain to her the concept of an economy car and how they try to save money. A big part of the conversation was trying to get her to use a different word than cheap and having her understand the difference between economical and cheap.

Good luck with your efforts, I would save your oil for reuse, especially the 2nd-5th fills. Since you like reading up on things so much, perhaps consider a bypass filter. That would go far to extend the life of everything, including the oil. If it turns out to be a burner, you actually would never need to change the oil, just keep it topped up.

On the break in trip, I would avoid too much highway even at the expense of expediency. The more variation in load early on, the better. As mileage builds up, the RPM limit would too. Of course, with a Civic you need to rev the [censored] out of it just to move. Are in still in NOLA or transplanted?


Originally Posted By: nola000
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It looks like you are spending more on the break in oil by changing it six times in 500 miles than the rebuild itself.


I calculated with 4qt/change x 6 changes @ $6/quart = $144. No bad at all. Motor was $1400.

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The first life was 197k,


Actually, it was like 297k.
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What driving environment are you in (city/highway. traffic, etc)?


Almost 100% interstate/highway.

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How long can you take for the first 500 miles?


I was going to take a road trip on the local highways to break it in. Maybe a trip down US-90 along the Gulf Coast.
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Originally Posted By: Coprolite
I wouldn't expect any rebuilt engine to last to even half the original life from the factory. I do like the suggestion of picking up long block from a salvage yard, especially on an appliance vehicle. It would last you longer than a rebuild in all likelihood.


I agree with most of what you said, however there are people I know personally who are capable of rebuilding an engine better than OE. Assuming cost is not an issue. That unfortunately wasn't the OP's case, but people do exist that can do it.
 
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call LKQ to find a low milage long block from a wreck.


At ~$600 for a JDM spec D17A1 on the Fleabay, I seriously considered this but then I thought about the way I see other people treat their vehicles and I thought better of it. I would have no idea what kind of abuse a used engine took. Maybe they never changed the oil, ever, and its a ticking time bomb. For example. Most people now lease their vehicles and trade them in which means they couldnt care less what their vehicle looks like on the inside as long as the paint is shiny. Like the rest of society today, we are beautiful on the outside and rotten in the core.
 
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I would say that changing the filter is also important.


Plan to for every change. Will use the cheapest filter for the break-in oil changes. Switch to a good model for the rest of the engines life.

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was trying to get her to use a different word than cheap and having her understand the difference between economical and cheap.


I prefer "financially expedient".
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Good luck with your efforts, I would save your oil for reuse, especially the 2nd-5th fills.


I might do that. Let the solids settle out and then pour off the top for reuse.

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Of course, with a Civic you need to rev the [censored] out of it just to move.


Yeah. This was another point that attracted me to a hard break-in but I was reluctant to mention it here because I knew I would get flamed and it would distract from my original questions. This anemic 4 banger really struggles to get on the interstate and passing people on 2-lane highways is straight-up scary. My wife turns the AC off to merge.
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Are in still in NOLA or transplanted?


Of course. Well, across the Lake but yeah. I tried other places but when you grow up here everywhere else is just plain and boring.
 
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I agree with most of what you said, however there are people I know personally who are capable of rebuilding an engine better than OE. Assuming cost is not an issue. That unfortunately wasn't the OP's case, but people do exist that can do it.


Im pretty anal and have an extensive tool collection so I feel I would have done an excellent job but due to a lack of space in my garage and large investment I dont possess any of the large stationary equipment so I would still have to send it out for things like pressure testing, deck milling, valve cutting, honing, etc. So I just bought one from JIS instead. I wanted to use someone local but I couldnt find a rebuilder here in southeast Louisiana/Southern Mississippi.
 
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It's been years since I was a mechanic so LKQ may have changed their policy, but when I used them their used engines were tested before being removed from the vehicle and warranted for 6 months. I've done several swaps with LKQ engines and never had an issue. In fact one of them was for my own car, a 2.2 EcoTec that snapped a timing chain 8K out of warranty. GM said to pound sand and having the cylinder head rebuilt was more expensive than an LKQ pull. That motor was still running perfect when I sold the car with 160K miles on the clock.

Even with the out of spec rod bearing clearance and stripped bell bolt holes, you're going to install and run this engine?

As far as off-lease cars, I wouldn't be so quick to judge. I just purchased an off-lease fully loaded 2015 Fusion with the 2.0 EcoBoost. I paid almost 2K less than current blue book value, it came complete with dealer service records, brand new tires all the way around, 5-year 100K mile bumper to bumper warranty, the car looks brand new inside and out, and under the oil fill cap the engine looks like it's never even been run.

Originally Posted By: nola000
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call LKQ to find a low milage long block from a wreck.


At ~$600 for a JDM spec D17A1 on the Fleabay, I seriously considered this but then I thought about the way I see other people treat their vehicles and I thought better of it. I would have no idea what kind of abuse a used engine took. Maybe they never changed the oil, ever, and its a ticking time bomb. For example. Most people now lease their vehicles and trade them in which means they couldnt care less what their vehicle looks like on the inside as long as the paint is shiny. Like the rest of society today, we are beautiful on the outside and rotten in the core.
 
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Originally Posted By: nola000
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I agree with most of what you said, however there are people I know personally who are capable of rebuilding an engine better than OE. Assuming cost is not an issue. That unfortunately wasn't the OP's case, but people do exist that can do it.


Im pretty anal and have an extensive tool collection so I feel I would have done an excellent job but due to a lack of space in my garage and large investment I dont possess any of the large stationary equipment so I would still have to send it out for things like pressure testing, deck milling, valve cutting, honing, etc. So I just bought one from JIS instead. I wanted to use someone local but I couldnt find a rebuilder here in southeast Louisiana/Southern Mississippi.


My point was it can be done, even with farming portions of the job out. It's just a matter of using the right people.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: nola000
Quote:
I agree with most of what you said, however there are people I know personally who are capable of rebuilding an engine better than OE. Assuming cost is not an issue. That unfortunately wasn't the OP's case, but people do exist that can do it.


Im pretty anal and have an extensive tool collection so I feel I would have done an excellent job but due to a lack of space in my garage and large investment I dont possess any of the large stationary equipment so I would still have to send it out for things like pressure testing, deck milling, valve cutting, honing, etc. So I just bought one from JIS instead. I wanted to use someone local but I couldnt find a rebuilder here in southeast Louisiana/Southern Mississippi.


My point was it can be done, even with farming portions of the job out. It's just a matter of using the right people.


My point was from the actuarial side of the coin. I know that it can be done better, it just isn't likely. The bell curve of reliability is usually in the OEM factory favor.
 
Just use whatever oil you plan on using full time.
Change oil at 700-1000 miles and you are good to go.
You are really overthinking this my friend.
 
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: nola000
Quote:
I agree with most of what you said, however there are people I know personally who are capable of rebuilding an engine better than OE. Assuming cost is not an issue. That unfortunately wasn't the OP's case, but people do exist that can do it.


Im pretty anal and have an extensive tool collection so I feel I would have done an excellent job but due to a lack of space in my garage and large investment I dont possess any of the large stationary equipment so I would still have to send it out for things like pressure testing, deck milling, valve cutting, honing, etc. So I just bought one from JIS instead. I wanted to use someone local but I couldnt find a rebuilder here in southeast Louisiana/Southern Mississippi.


My point was it can be done, even with farming portions of the job out. It's just a matter of using the right people.


My point was from the actuarial side of the coin. I know that it can be done better, it just isn't likely. The bell curve of reliability is usually in the OEM factory favor.


I agree with that.
 
I have to wonder sometimes about the factory using a 'special' oil in new
engines.
Seems some, perhaps most, of the Japanese mfgs have or are using a 'break-in'
oil or additive.
I say that because I've never heard of an American brand car going 4, 5 or 6 hundred thousand
miles without being cracked open. I've read of several, even numerous Japanese
autos doing that.
I'm skeptical that their factories are that much different than ours are, even if they
pay more attention to details.


Just my wandering mind expression a thought here.
 
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I've never had a domestic engine go boom on me. I have blown a head gasket or two in my time. I fully intend to run the fusion in my signature at least 350k. I've done basic maintenance. Spark plugs, oil changes, air filters. I probably will need to do a fuel filter at some point. She runs great and still makes good power.
 
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I say that because I've never heard of an American brand car going 4, 5 or 6 hundred thousand
miles without being cracked open. I've read of several, even numerous Japanese
autos doing that.
I'm skeptical that their factories are that much different than ours are, even if they
pay more attention to details.


Just my wandering mind expression a thought here.


I read a really good article years ago about why Japan is so good in the manufacturing realm and while its too long to post here its basically summed up by saying that in the US you go to school and get an MBA and you get employed initially and forever in upper management, you go to school and get an engineering degree you get employed initially and forever in R&D. In Japan, everyone cross-trains in multiple disciplines within the corporation so before you even enter upper management you have a firm grasp of how the products are built and what it takes. This manifest itself as an overall company philosophy as dedicated to reliability and quality as it is to counting-beans and designing 4-color brochures. Add in the fact that the Japanese value honor and the Americans value the almighty dollar and you end up with two completely different results at the consumer product level.
 
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I've never had a domestic engine go boom on me. I have blown a head gasket or two in my time. I fully intend to run the fusion in my signature at least 350k. I've done basic maintenance. Spark plugs, oil changes, air filters. I probably will need to do a fuel filter at some point. She runs great and still makes good power.


I dont want this to turn into an import vs. domestic flame war, as my initial questions still havent been addressed but Ive owned many vehicle makes and worked on many more and U.S. and British cars are complete garbage at every level. Ford isnt bad and has had some real winners and all the domestic brands seem to be improving but historically GM, Chrysler, Land Rover, Jaguar, MG, all garbage and always have been.

I dont guess Im going to get any answers to my questions now am I??
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Originally Posted By: nola000
Quote:
call LKQ to find a low milage long block from a wreck.


At ~$600 for a JDM spec D17A1 on the Fleabay, I seriously considered this but then I thought about the way I see other people treat their vehicles and I thought better of it. I would have no idea what kind of abuse a used engine took. Maybe they never changed the oil, ever, and its a ticking time bomb. For example. Most people now lease their vehicles and trade them in which means they couldnt care less what their vehicle looks like on the inside as long as the paint is shiny. Like the rest of society today, we are beautiful on the outside and rotten in the core.


I bought a JDM engine years ago for an '86 Civic Wagon I bought cheaply suspecting (knowing) that it had either a cracked head or blown head gasket. I decided that a JDM for about the same money would be a better bet than fixing the original.
I bought the engine, swapped it in and ran it for another hundred K.
The engine came with a new timing belt, tensioner and water pump that were to be installed if the warranty the engine came with were to be maintained prior to install, easy when the engine is out of the car.
The engine came with a good-looking compression test and had only 35K on it but looked quite dirty through the fill hole. A few short runs of whatever oil cleaned that right up.
My point is that a JDM or yard engine might have been a better bet than the suspect rebuild that you paid good money for.
 
Originally Posted By: nola000
Ford isnt bad and has had some real winners and all the domestic brands seem to be improving but historically GM, Chrysler, Land Rover, Jaguar, MG, all garbage and always have been.


Yes.

But it's our garbage.
 
Ridiculous prejudicial baloney being spewed, no more usable info of any kind.

Just because someone hasn't heard of an American car going 500k miles doesn't mean it's going to happen.

It's happened here. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

2004 GMC Savana 3500 extended wheelbase van, weighs just shy of 6k pounds new and empty. Load it with 3k of cleaning equipment driven directly off the engine (6.0 gas) and then use it in all urban driving and thousands of hours of stationary operation. Sold at 500k miles with no smoke, no leaks, and nil consumption. Always changed per OLM. STILL WORKING TODAY!

Try that with any import, you'll not even get close...
 
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Originally Posted By: nola000


I dont guess Im going to get any answers to my questions now am I??
blush.gif


If you're looking for a consensus about oil you're not going to get one here.
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There is a lot of good advice in this thread so you just have to decide which advice to follow.

Oil advice in a Subaru rebuild is all over the place as well. Some go with conventional 5W30, some go with Rotella T6 5W40, and some go with Rotella 15W40. This is what a popular Subaru (and other makes) tuner recommends for rebuilds:

https://www.cobbtuning.com/support/how-to-break-in-your-newly-built-engine-v1-03/
 
IMHO, just use a good assembly lube when building the engine, and whatever oil you plan on using.

As for used JDM motors, I highly recommend them. Have installed many, they are seriously like new motors.
 
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