Remanufactured engines and break-in oils

[goblin]

So I was diving down rabbit holes - a favorite hobby of mine, and ended up torturing a few poor artificial brains online with random questions.

Namely - why would a manufacturer's TSB pertaining to a warranty engine replacement explicitly state "Fill wih synthetic ILSAC GF6" (basically - the synthetic recommended in the user manual) - wouldn't something like Motul 10W40 Break-in oil be better (note that this one is technically SL) ?

The answers were interesting. While one of the artificial gizmos said basically "Hey, the Motul is perfect for that, go through the ring sealing break-in procedure then dump it quickly, before 1000 miles"). the other one went full blown ballistic.

And it went into details that I am 110% sure it pulled out of its electronic behind. Stuff about what process they go through on the bench, etc etc etc. When I asked for specifics on that one - it went evasive.

"No no no, you should not do it, remanufactured engines that come in warranty packages are NOT rebuilt engines by a mom and pop shop, they are tested on bench, the rings get mostly sealed while on bench, you're just gonna make things worse, blah blah".

Which slightly puzzles me. While I'm absolutely sure that the manufacturers know what they're doing, I also strongly suspect that they'll never take the risk of a client messing up things with break-in oil (like keeping it for too long), vs the risks of starting with full synth on day one - hence the instructions.

NOTE: My logic goes that manufacturers won't be rebuilding waranted engies themselves, but would subcontract this. So a reman is not a brand new engine in my book. Or am I wrong ?

Thoughts ?
Thanks

 

[CleanSump]

As far as the ring/cylinder wall, bearings/crank, timing chain/sprockets, and tappets/cam go, it is a new engine. Or should be if it was really remanufactured.

 

[Nessism1]

Namely - why would a manufacturer's TSB pertaining to a warranty engine replacement explicitly state "Fill wih synthetic ILSAC GF6" (basically - the synthetic recommended in the user manual) - wouldn't something like Motul 10W40 Break-in oil be better (note that this one is technically SL) ?

If you get a rebuilt engine from a manufacturer, I would fully expect them to recommend the same oil they used originally, which in your instance they did. They don't recommend a break-in oil, because they don't use break-in oil at the factory.

 

[goblin]

So where would that stand relative to the right thing to do
The manufacturer would clearly steer away from any special oils the first XYZ miles because of the possible complications. But does that mean the synth is the best choice ? And most important - does that mean that a dedicated break-in oil would be the wrong one ?

 

[Astro14]

A reman claim to be basically new. New pistons, rings, bearings, valve stem sleeves, everything.

If you need break in oil for a new engine, with new parts, why doesn’t every single car engine built come with break in oil from the factory?

 

[Mainia]

I myself would run the break-in oil, run it for 500 miles and dump it, the ring bed in will be done by then anyways. No way they dynoed the engine. You would of paid another $1000 for the dyno, mount time on dyno, dyno run time and take down. It is not a must, but if you can, why not.

 

[Astro14]

I would run regular oil, as recommended, and change it early. No special oil, but an early change.

 

[Zee09]

I'd also change the gas often too

 

[Nessism1]

I realize this is somewhat contrary to what most OEM's do, but I run conventional oil for break-in. Change over to synthetic after a few hundred miles.

 

[goblin]

...
If you need break in oil for a new engine, with new parts, why doesn’t every single car engine built come with break in oil from the factory?

Because of the hassle, and the potential for issues if the first oil change is not made on time ?
Plus, how do I know what exactly gets in the engine at the factory on first fill for a brand new car ? It could be some frankenstein oil of sorts ?

Just wondering out loud. My main point is why would they require the full-blown synthetic on first fill on the reman engine. I would have expected some dino or specific oil, and a requirement for a short OCI. That was a Hyundai TSB I stumbled on, could be different for other brands.

 

[Astro14]

Because of the hassle, and the potential for issues if the first oil change is not made on time ?
Plus, how do I know what exactly gets in the engine at the factory on first fill for a brand new car ? It could be some frankenstein oil of sorts ?

Just wondering out loud. My main point is why would they require the full-blown synthetic on first fill on the reman engine. I would have expected some dino or specific oil, and a requirement for a short OCI. That was a Hyundai TSB I stumbled on, could be different for other brands.

Maybe it’s not the hassle - maybe it’s even simpler - that break in oil is not needed.

 

[Mainia]

Maybe it’s not the hassle - maybe it’s even simpler - that break in oil is not needed.

I would of said that too, but after seeing Lake's videos "from a ring manufacture" on the positive use of true dedicated break in oils, I would at least put an effort into using "their expertise on ring break in" over internet posters that are not ring manufactures. Just like I learned here, aftermarket additives are not need with modern quality motor oil.

 

[Astro14]

Here is another thought - production engine vs. high performance engine. For the high performance engine, yeah, perhaps a break in oil for those rings, which often have moly coatings, and other design/materials differences, but for a regular production engine (which includes the reman, because my understanding of remanufactured engines is they not buying the highest performance components) - ring seating is straightforward.

 

[goblin]

...(which includes the reman, because my understanding of remanufactured engines is they not buying the highest performance components) - ring seating is straightforward.

Is there any info out there on how manufacturers handle their reman engines ?
Are these rebuilt at the same factory where the new engines are made, to the same specs (or updated) ?
Are they subcontracted ?

In a previous life I had a short sting in personal watercraft sales, and I believe SeaDoo's reman engines came from some independent factory, was it in Florida. These guys would remanufacture all brands and work with individual clients as well, but also handled the warranty engines. At least that's how I remember it.

Is it the same for automotive manufacturers ?

I will agree that a stock, brand new engine fresh off the line at the car manufacturer's plant will not benefit from specific break-in oils enough for it to matter on a large scale.

But what is the coverage on a reman engine ?
I would suspect - If a manufacturer replaces an engine under warranty - the replacement engine will be covered for the remaining time/mileage.
But if it's a 100k miles powertrain warranty and the engine croaks and gets replaced at 99000 miles - or if a reman engine is bought outright and dropped into a vehicle no longer under warranty, most will cover it for 12mo/12000 miles. Which, to be honest, an engine will borderline survive with any oil in the sump and any type of driving.

 

[Mainia]

Here is another thought - production engine vs. high performance engine. For the high performance engine, yeah, perhaps a break in oil for those rings, which often have moly coatings, and other design/materials differences, but for a regular production engine (which includes the reman, because my understanding of remanufactured engines is they not buying the highest performance components) - ring seating is straightforward.

I see your point to a degree, softer metallurgy is assumed. It would be interesting to hear if that is across the board valid on OEM/re manufactured products.

 

[CleanSump]

The remanufacturer will have directions. Follow them.

 

[mrsilv04]

Well... you know.... lucky me... I had the opportunity to break in 3 (three) remanufactured engines in one year.

Here's what Jasper specifies (at least what they did in 2019). First oil change at 500 miles, then oil changes every 3-4 months or 3000-4000 miles (whichever comes first) for life. This guidance is for gasoline engines, used on the road (not in marine service). There was not any mention of using synthetic or conventional or weight... so one would assume that means to follow whatever is specified in the owner's manual for the vehicle when it was new.

For break-in oils:
Engines #1 & #2, I used Quaker State Ultimate Durability full synthetic 5w-30.
Engine #3, I used Formula Shell 5w-30, which was a conventional oil.

All OCIs for all three engines met Jasper's first 500 miles, then every 3-4 months or 3000-4000 mile requirements while under warranty.... or at least as long as it was under the hood. I don't think engines 1 and 2 even made it past oil change #2.

I ran OUA's on all three engines, first out of curiosity, then out of necessity... when it was obvious that things were not going well. Of course, the used oil analysis picked up on the coolant in the oil on engine #2, and the shedding of lead in engine #3. Engine #1 had a collapsed lifter on day 1. Picked it up from the shop, drove it to the office, and listened to the tapping in the parking lot at the office. It had less than 10 miles on the engine.

So... I used both a name brand synthetic for break-in, as well as a traditional conventional as a break in oil. In my case, it made no difference, as engines #1 and #2 failed for non-oil related issues. Both engines had defects out of the crate, and not related to the break-in oil that was used.

 

[anndel01]

In 2014, I overhauled a 22R-E engine on our 1993 Toyota truck. Top end, block were true and the machine shop just cleaned the block, valves, camshaft, rocker arms, etc. I filled with Joe Gibbs Driven Break in oil then drained it at 300 miles.