Are there any boutique oils out there (Red Line, Amsoil, Klotz, royal purple, Lucas, etc.) that actually have the API license? Seems most these lubes, be they engine or gearbox oil, all say something to the effect of "recommended for APL SL applications." Whats the story why these lubes do not have the API License? Just too expensive to do whats needed to get certification?
Boutique Oils With No API License
- Thread starter BBDartCA
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My bad, I see Amzoil, RP and others have some license agreements, but have no products currently with a license. Nice tool here to search. Full Bore, Amalie, Brad Penn, Cam 2, Max 1, Flamingo Oil and some real strange brands I've never heard of have synthetics with current licenses.
http://eolcs.api.org/FindCompanies.asp
http://eolcs.api.org/FindCompanies.asp
Amsoil has one licensed product line which is their XL-7500 series. All their other oils while they aren't certified IMO are better than a certified oil.
They choose not to certify their oils because it gives them greater flexibility and control because they can formulate it how they want.
If it were a company that didn't stand behind their product I wouldn't use it but Redline, Amsoil and RP all are excellent companies.
RP does have SL rated oil.
They choose not to certify their oils because it gives them greater flexibility and control because they can formulate it how they want.
If it were a company that didn't stand behind their product I wouldn't use it but Redline, Amsoil and RP all are excellent companies.
RP does have SL rated oil.
People using these oils know about the oils; they are usually backed up by documented extreme real world use; an API license, in these cases, wouldn't add any credibility to them IMHO.
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API license and starburst means the oil meets the minimum requirements for the spec, such as chemical limits to protect emissions systems, lower viscosity for energy conserving, Noack volitility limits, cold cranking, HTHS, wear protection, shear stability etc. Also, oil companies pay dearly to have their oils licensed, tested, etc. and pay some type of royalty per gallon or quart over a certain amount sold. Non-licensed oils may be better than the spec in some or every way or worse. You have to decide if you trust the company blending/selling the non-licensed oil.
Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
API license and starburst means the oil meets the minimum requirements for the spec, such as chemical limits to protect emissions systems, lower viscosity for energy conserving, Noack volitility limits, cold cranking, HTHS, wear protection, shear stability etc. Also, oil companies pay dearly to have their oils licensed, tested, etc. and pay some type of royalty per gallon or quart over a certain amount sold. Non-licensed oils may be better than the spec in some or every way or worse. You have to decide if you trust the company blending/selling the non-licensed oil.
Well Said
That being said if you choose to go with a non licensed oil company I would choose one based on the length of time they have been around, the fact that they are increasing in sales each year and the fact that they have not FTC rulings against them.
Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple are good to go with that respect.
API license and starburst means the oil meets the minimum requirements for the spec, such as chemical limits to protect emissions systems, lower viscosity for energy conserving, Noack volitility limits, cold cranking, HTHS, wear protection, shear stability etc. Also, oil companies pay dearly to have their oils licensed, tested, etc. and pay some type of royalty per gallon or quart over a certain amount sold. Non-licensed oils may be better than the spec in some or every way or worse. You have to decide if you trust the company blending/selling the non-licensed oil.
Well Said
That being said if you choose to go with a non licensed oil company I would choose one based on the length of time they have been around, the fact that they are increasing in sales each year and the fact that they have not FTC rulings against them.
Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple are good to go with that respect.
StevieC wrote: "...the fact that they have not FTC rulings against them. Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple are good to go with that respect."
I think that you will find that Royal Purple does have an FTC ruling against them.
BP vs. Royal Purple
I think that you will find that Royal Purple does have an FTC ruling against them.
BP vs. Royal Purple
I was talking about because it was snake-oil and was damaging engines etc. not because of advertising practices.
All oil companies can be guilty of this to some extreme.
All oil companies can be guilty of this to some extreme.
Originally Posted By: BBDartCA
My bad, I see Amzoil, RP and others have some license agreements, but have no products currently with a license. Nice tool here to search. Full Bore, Amalie, Brad Penn, Cam 2, Max 1, Flamingo Oil and some real strange brands I've never heard of have synthetics with current licenses.
Sure they do. Check the RP section of your link and you'll see that 5w-40 and 0w-40 meet SM. Lots meet SL. That's been superseded, but is not considered an obsolete spec.
RP's licences happen to expire tomorrow, but they're still current today.
My bad, I see Amzoil, RP and others have some license agreements, but have no products currently with a license. Nice tool here to search. Full Bore, Amalie, Brad Penn, Cam 2, Max 1, Flamingo Oil and some real strange brands I've never heard of have synthetics with current licenses.
Sure they do. Check the RP section of your link and you'll see that 5w-40 and 0w-40 meet SM. Lots meet SL. That's been superseded, but is not considered an obsolete spec.
RP's licences happen to expire tomorrow, but they're still current today.
bmwtechguy says it well. When an oil meets API certification, it only proves that it meets MINIMUM standards. Certification costs hundred of thousands of dollars, restricts the additive package, discourages updates to formulas, suits the large sales numbers of major oil companies (not small companies), etc.
As with any small business, boutique oils have the freedom to be better or worse, use cutting edge research or outdated technology, and offer performance that is overpriced or underpriced. Never rely on customer testimonials alone. Look for a solid reputation among oil nuts (that's us), independent testing, used oil analysis, expert consultation such as Terry Dyson, etc. Boutique oils aren't for everyone on BITOG, but neither is Pennzoil conventional.
As with any small business, boutique oils have the freedom to be better or worse, use cutting edge research or outdated technology, and offer performance that is overpriced or underpriced. Never rely on customer testimonials alone. Look for a solid reputation among oil nuts (that's us), independent testing, used oil analysis, expert consultation such as Terry Dyson, etc. Boutique oils aren't for everyone on BITOG, but neither is Pennzoil conventional.
Originally Posted By: GMorg
StevieC wrote: "...the fact that they have not FTC rulings against them. Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple are good to go with that respect."
I think that you will find that Royal Purple does have an FTC ruling against them.
BP vs. Royal Purple
That is not the FTC. RP has no FTC issues.
StevieC wrote: "...the fact that they have not FTC rulings against them. Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple are good to go with that respect."
I think that you will find that Royal Purple does have an FTC ruling against them.
BP vs. Royal Purple
That is not the FTC. RP has no FTC issues.
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NHHEMI is absolutely correct! BP took a route through the Better Business Bureau (BBB) to resolve the false advertising issue. Since RP complied with the BBB recommendations, the case did not escalate further. My mistake unfairly misrepresented the facts related to this case.
Thanks for the correction!
Thanks for the correction!
MolaKule
Staff member
Please read the LNG article again and you will see the recurring word "RECOMMENDED."
"The National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus recommended Porter, Texas-based Royal Purple modify or discontinue numerous advertising claims for its synthetic motor oil, following a challenge by Wayne, N.J.-based BP Lubricants."
RP recended it's claims.
NO LEGAL proceedings, no legal case involved.
"The National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus recommended Porter, Texas-based Royal Purple modify or discontinue numerous advertising claims for its synthetic motor oil, following a challenge by Wayne, N.J.-based BP Lubricants."
RP recended it's claims.
NO LEGAL proceedings, no legal case involved.
I see it like this, would you rather trust a licensed 16-year old to drive your 200,000 dollar racecar around the track, or an experienced racecar driver who's license was suspended for (eg.) speeding but was obviously extremely skilled in handling a race vehicle?
On paper and theoretically, the teen that meets the 'minimum requirements' for vehicle operation is more preferred to operate a vehicle, while the other guy has no 'reason to be driving'.
Of course, there is theory and there is the real world. These two things are most often not congruent. As an 'end-consumer', engine wear is more of a tangible consequence than a theoretical one. I would rather have 7% of the acceptable wear limit during warranty period than say 37% of the acceptable wear (before a warranty claim can be issued). I'd also like to know that more of the cost of an oil formulation was spent on the actual formula, instead of diverted to the cost of paying for bureaucratic sanctioning.
On paper and theoretically, the teen that meets the 'minimum requirements' for vehicle operation is more preferred to operate a vehicle, while the other guy has no 'reason to be driving'.
Of course, there is theory and there is the real world. These two things are most often not congruent. As an 'end-consumer', engine wear is more of a tangible consequence than a theoretical one. I would rather have 7% of the acceptable wear limit during warranty period than say 37% of the acceptable wear (before a warranty claim can be issued). I'd also like to know that more of the cost of an oil formulation was spent on the actual formula, instead of diverted to the cost of paying for bureaucratic sanctioning.
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