Both drowning and you can save 1. Dog or stranger?
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Originally Posted By: mcrn
Now what if it was a really hot girl?
Dog for sure. Wife would kill me if hot girl.
Maybe it's conditional on the reward.
Now what if it was a really hot girl?
Dog for sure. Wife would kill me if hot girl.
Maybe it's conditional on the reward.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Dog for sure.
If it was a PITBULL i would let it drown for sure.
Dog for sure.
If it was a PITBULL i would let it drown for sure.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
A Pyr will lay down his life protecting you.
Will any stranger do that?
Not as long as people are choosing their dogs over other people. Don't you think the world would be a better place if we (voluntarily) looked out for each other more than we do?
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Don't you owe the dog the same level of loyalty?
Yes, that's exactly right. And since the dog's loyalty is a simple function of base impulses, "the same level of loyalty" is not very high.
A Pyr will lay down his life protecting you.
Will any stranger do that?
Not as long as people are choosing their dogs over other people. Don't you think the world would be a better place if we (voluntarily) looked out for each other more than we do?
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Don't you owe the dog the same level of loyalty?
Yes, that's exactly right. And since the dog's loyalty is a simple function of base impulses, "the same level of loyalty" is not very high.
These types of scenarios are really pointless anyway. Not much in life requires that sort of decision making without many other variables and conditions/choices available. Kind of fun for discussions sake I guess...but not truly realistic. I know that if I chose my dog over saving a stranger that I would me something less than ideal as a fellow human being to most folks....but I've got to be honest. If it was a child or a female I would probably save the human first....then do all I could to save my dog. It's sort of common around here that every summer (this one included) several people drown in our area lakes and rivers. Most are from being stupid and drinking too much or operating a boat like a total fool.....those people I would most positively save my dog before lending them a hand. Someones complete stupity is not a good enough reason for my dog to die.
I don't think there would be any thinking going on and I'd jump in and save which / who ever is closer to me physically in distance, then jump in trying to save the other one.
Now if I know one of them and dislike him/her/it, I might intentionally save the other first, but would still jump in again to save one more.
Now if I know one of them and dislike him/her/it, I might intentionally save the other first, but would still jump in again to save one more.
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Call for help. I'm too beat to really ever see myself as the hero scenario in any situation anymore. I'm one of the screaming stampede of panic driven people in all the movies I watch.
Dog first then im sure he would go in and save her for me because he loves me that much!
You apparently don't understand dogs very well.
Perhaps the best description of canine mental abilities I have heard is that they are roughly comparable to a two year old child.
As anyone who has lived with a dog knows, they learn, they have emotions, and they are social animals.
If you keep a dog as part of the family, the dog will consider itself an equal member.
The dog will enjoy weekend trips with you, and will resent being boarded.
The dog will expect to eat what you eat (well, if you let him, and I always did let him have the inevitable leftovers).
A dog is an enjoyable and undemanding friend.
And yes, a Pyreness will die protecting his flock, and his family is his flock.
Perhaps the best description of canine mental abilities I have heard is that they are roughly comparable to a two year old child.
As anyone who has lived with a dog knows, they learn, they have emotions, and they are social animals.
If you keep a dog as part of the family, the dog will consider itself an equal member.
The dog will enjoy weekend trips with you, and will resent being boarded.
The dog will expect to eat what you eat (well, if you let him, and I always did let him have the inevitable leftovers).
A dog is an enjoyable and undemanding friend.
And yes, a Pyreness will die protecting his flock, and his family is his flock.
I was going to say "the person" but based on some of the comments here, I've changed it to "the dog"
I don't feel I should have to mention, but I will, that the death of a person is a life long game changer for the people left behind. From my perspective, it is a simple case of humanity, whether you will choose for your own selfishness or for the benefit of others.
The people choosing "dog" should understand that if ever in need, careless disregard by others is understandable.
I don't feel I should have to mention, but I will, that the death of a person is a life long game changer for the people left behind. From my perspective, it is a simple case of humanity, whether you will choose for your own selfishness or for the benefit of others.
The people choosing "dog" should understand that if ever in need, careless disregard by others is understandable.
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Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You apparently don't understand dogs very well.
Perhaps the best description of canine mental abilities I have heard is that they are roughly comparable to a two year old child.
As anyone who has lived with a dog knows, they learn, they have emotions, and they are social animals.
If you keep a dog as part of the family, the dog will consider itself an equal member.
The dog will enjoy weekend trips with you, and will resent being boarded.
The dog will expect to eat what you eat (well, if you let him, and I always did let him have the inevitable leftovers).
A dog is an enjoyable and undemanding friend.
And yes, a Pyreness will die protecting his flock, and his family is his flock.
I almost teared up after reading this "NOT"
The dog is still going to the bottom of the lake over a human.
The emotion of losing your dog and you missing your dog is why you pick take this view. Take emotin out of your dission and you will make the right one saving the six year old girl with a loving family is the right one.
You apparently don't understand dogs very well.
Perhaps the best description of canine mental abilities I have heard is that they are roughly comparable to a two year old child.
As anyone who has lived with a dog knows, they learn, they have emotions, and they are social animals.
If you keep a dog as part of the family, the dog will consider itself an equal member.
The dog will enjoy weekend trips with you, and will resent being boarded.
The dog will expect to eat what you eat (well, if you let him, and I always did let him have the inevitable leftovers).
A dog is an enjoyable and undemanding friend.
And yes, a Pyreness will die protecting his flock, and his family is his flock.
I almost teared up after reading this "NOT"
The dog is still going to the bottom of the lake over a human.
The emotion of losing your dog and you missing your dog is why you pick take this view. Take emotin out of your dission and you will make the right one saving the six year old girl with a loving family is the right one.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
My friend, it was not you I was refering to when I used the term "poor white trash"
No problems at all man.....I see that now.
As for dogs considering themselves as "equal members". I think sometimes my dogs are the boss of this house.....
My friend, it was not you I was refering to when I used the term "poor white trash"
No problems at all man.....I see that now.
As for dogs considering themselves as "equal members". I think sometimes my dogs are the boss of this house.....
The simple truth is that having five dogs in one's backyard is not the same as having a house dog or two.
You are also making the leap that we are talking about a six year old girl.
We could just as well be speaking of a child molester or a rapist.
The point being that we know the dog, while we have no idea who or what the person in question might be.
In any event, why wouldn't the six year old girl's family save her?
They don't have the stones?
It does take some courage to take the physical risks involved in any rescue.
Why would I sacrifice a member of my own family to save a member of one too lacking in intestinal fortitude to do anything?
You are also making the leap that we are talking about a six year old girl.
We could just as well be speaking of a child molester or a rapist.
The point being that we know the dog, while we have no idea who or what the person in question might be.
In any event, why wouldn't the six year old girl's family save her?
They don't have the stones?
It does take some courage to take the physical risks involved in any rescue.
Why would I sacrifice a member of my own family to save a member of one too lacking in intestinal fortitude to do anything?
I could only find summaries of the "Dog intelligence" study that you mention such as this one:
http://mgtutoring.com/blog/2009/08/11/mental-abilities-of-dogs/
and it says "But we have to use “mental abilities” loosely. The child has a consciousness that is developing into a rational consciousness; dogs do not. The child is going through this state of development of his/her consciousness; the dog is stuck there, and will develop no further."
I haven't found any evidence that dogs can "love", "enjoy", and "resent", which I view as different than happy/sad, which is acknowledged in the article.
Undemanding???? Hah. All of my dogs have demanded to be let out every morning or they leave a present on the carpet for me. Even my wife doesn't do that.
This animal "emotions" argument will never be settled. I think of the Walt Disney educated group that thinks Raccoons are cuddly, friendly creatures. But, I know, as a farmer, that Raccoons are vicious and will pull body parts off live, caged chickens.
http://mgtutoring.com/blog/2009/08/11/mental-abilities-of-dogs/
and it says "But we have to use “mental abilities” loosely. The child has a consciousness that is developing into a rational consciousness; dogs do not. The child is going through this state of development of his/her consciousness; the dog is stuck there, and will develop no further."
I haven't found any evidence that dogs can "love", "enjoy", and "resent", which I view as different than happy/sad, which is acknowledged in the article.
Undemanding???? Hah. All of my dogs have demanded to be let out every morning or they leave a present on the carpet for me. Even my wife doesn't do that.
This animal "emotions" argument will never be settled. I think of the Walt Disney educated group that thinks Raccoons are cuddly, friendly creatures. But, I know, as a farmer, that Raccoons are vicious and will pull body parts off live, caged chickens.
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Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You apparently don't understand dogs very well.
Perhaps the best description of canine mental abilities I have heard is that they are roughly comparable to a two year old child.
As anyone who has lived with a dog knows, they learn, they have emotions, and they are social animals.
If you keep a dog as part of the family, the dog will consider itself an equal member.
The dog will enjoy weekend trips with you, and will resent being boarded.
The dog will expect to eat what you eat (well, if you let him, and I always did let him have the inevitable leftovers).
A dog is an enjoyable and undemanding friend.
And yes, a Pyreness will die protecting his flock, and his family is his flock.
I have actually have flock/herd of goats and a pair of Maremma's in with them. I do like them very much and they like me, but the reality is they are out there to keep the bears and coyotes away who often are just on the side of 3 strands of electric fence... It's very possible they could get killed or injured, but they are just dogs doing what they are bred to do. I'm sure they wouldn't have it any other way if they had a choice, so if one gets killed I will be sad but the next day I'm going to track down another one to put in the pasture. Dogs are dogs, they do have their own personalities but almost any Pyr you have will protect your family as much as any other.
I do sort of understand where your coming from, most people who drown around here usually do something dumb to get into that situation. But I don't know how you could face a family after choosing your dog over their relative...
You apparently don't understand dogs very well.
Perhaps the best description of canine mental abilities I have heard is that they are roughly comparable to a two year old child.
As anyone who has lived with a dog knows, they learn, they have emotions, and they are social animals.
If you keep a dog as part of the family, the dog will consider itself an equal member.
The dog will enjoy weekend trips with you, and will resent being boarded.
The dog will expect to eat what you eat (well, if you let him, and I always did let him have the inevitable leftovers).
A dog is an enjoyable and undemanding friend.
And yes, a Pyreness will die protecting his flock, and his family is his flock.
I have actually have flock/herd of goats and a pair of Maremma's in with them. I do like them very much and they like me, but the reality is they are out there to keep the bears and coyotes away who often are just on the side of 3 strands of electric fence... It's very possible they could get killed or injured, but they are just dogs doing what they are bred to do. I'm sure they wouldn't have it any other way if they had a choice, so if one gets killed I will be sad but the next day I'm going to track down another one to put in the pasture. Dogs are dogs, they do have their own personalities but almost any Pyr you have will protect your family as much as any other.
I do sort of understand where your coming from, most people who drown around here usually do something dumb to get into that situation. But I don't know how you could face a family after choosing your dog over their relative...
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