BMW against short-term measures by the German government

[Rand]

Going "all in" on something is rarely a good business strategy.

that article close to being propaganda.. do you see the author of the bottom one?

 

[SC Maintenance]

that article close to being propaganda.. do you see the author of the bottom one?

If your referring to "oilprice.com", it is a very well respected energy data consolidation website which includes alternate energy. The name is "oilprice" because its been around before green energy was even a thing. Authors are mostly banker / professor / investor types, not producers, and any article can always have a bias or slant, the data is well vetted and that site is extremely well respected in the investment community. List of authors: https://oilprice.com/authors

Don't judge the book by its cover.

Now, if you want real bias, go to the EIA or any other government backed website

 

[Oillover]

People live closer to work, public transportation is better, in general they drive more fuel efficient cars (diesels were the vast majority until maybe 10 years ago?). A lot of people ride there bike to work and other places, even older people. Fuel is expensive but in general the average person uses less than here.

+1
I live and work in a downtown area comparable to that of a major European city.
We walk almost everywhere and our Honda is used maybe twice a week.
As a result, I only fill my tank once every two months so the price of fuel is of little concern.

 

[Rand]

If your referring to "oilprice.com", it is a very well respected energy data consolidation website which includes alternate energy. T

the author? rystad energy?
they are in the market of selling renewable power solutions.. almost an infomercial of an article.

 

[SC Maintenance]

the author? rystad energy?
they are in the market of selling renewable power solutions.. almost an infomercial of an article.

View attachment 242175

Maybe.

They post data of progress to date. I am guessing those were vetted.

They are pretty clear that this is their forward projection "Of course, these auctions are not set in stone, and achieving 100% of these targets is unlikely, but recent progress is a promising start"

So they believe they will make it. Others (including me) think they won't. You can disagree with their projections but calling it oilprice.com propoganda is a stretch. Infomercial maybe.

 

[Rand]

Maybe.

They post data of progress to date. I am guessing those were vetted.

They are pretty clear that this is their forward projection "Of course, these auctions are not set in stone, and achieving 100% of these targets is unlikely, but recent progress is a promising start"

So they believe they will make it. Others (including me) think they won't. You can disagree with their projections but calling it oilprice.com propoganda is a stretch. Infomercial maybe.

I was calling the article authored by rystad energy "almost propaganda"

Are you missing my point?.. I have not mentioned anything about oilprice.com yet.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I was calling the article authored by rystad energy "almost propaganda"

Are you missing my point?.. I have not mentioned anything about oilprice.com yet.

I don't think so. You believe the article is biased. Probably true, but its not propaganda. There clear its a projection.

I think your missing the point of why they were posted on this thread originally. It gives accurate data of what has happened to date and context as to why BMW is doing what they are doing. Just because you and I think there wrong doesn't make our projections any more correct. Time will tell.

 

[Bjornviken]

I think a tax per kWh used in EV is the most equitable, as a heavier, less efficient EV will use more kWh to go the same distance as a lighter, more efficient one, and this parallels with how gas tax works. The charge ports all contain bidirectional communication capability, so I don't see it as overly difficult for the EV to report its consumption to the smart meter at your house so that you can be billed for EV charging kWh with a road tax as part of it.

That could be an good alternative. But for example in my country i pay already a fixed sum
road tax based on the vehicle total weight (higher tax on bigger vehicles vs a lighter ) once a year. Plus tax on fuel. Since EV cars don't contribute any fuel taxes, they will be taxed per km to compensate tax losses.

 

[Torrid]

That could be an good alternative. But for example in my country i pay already a fixed sum
road tax based on the vehicle total weight (higher tax on bigger vehicles vs a lighter ) once a year. Plus tax on fuel. Since EV cars don't contribute any fuel taxes, they will be taxed per km to compensate tax losses.

That requires tracking the mileage or honesty from the driver. Here they're just implementing much higher road taxes for EVs to the point that cost way more than paying for fuel tax for the average driver. It's $200 a year now which is probably about $100 too high.

 

[Bjornviken]

That requires tracking the mileage or honesty from the driver. Here they're just implementing much higher road taxes for EVs to the point that cost way more than paying for fuel tax for the average driver. It's $200 a year now which is probably about $100 too high.

Correct! wich they do already in my country at yearly inspection. With a modern car, the car manufacturers can send driving data to the government,. That's what they do in China for example.

 

[Trav]

It is unless you understand the reasoning behind it. The German govt and a portion of the German people have determined that they must fulfill their responsibility in reducing global fossil fuel emissions in order to stave of catastrophic climate change at some point in the distant future. EV's must be part of the strategy and the German govt has directed automakers to get on board and provided hundreds of millions in subsidies.

The problem is that it's expensive. Kinda like how it was expensive when automobiles first came out and began to replace horses. Cities like NYC were dealing with 500 tons of horse manure a day. Using a horse in the city was cheap because you didn't have to clean up its manure and take it with you. Cities just dumped it in the river or landfill and the owners of said horses didn't really bare the full cost of the manure because it floated downstream for someone else to worry about. Ban horses in NYC and the cost of everything goes up because people must now use the more expensive ICE/steam engine. NYC is comparatively cleaner but it now costs more to live there.

ICE today is the horse of yesterday. It's comparatively cheap because there's no immediate* cost of the emissions. Like horse manure dumped in the river ICE emissions are blown downwind and out of the minds of the user for someone a couple of generations to deal with.

Some people care about these things and others do not. I'm rather ambivalent.


*Other than localized air pollution like Ozone.

I understand it completely, the "man made climate change" fraud has been going on for decades, sure there is climate change there always has been but it certainly is not man made. The earth did not warm up from the ice age due to any sort of industry, transportation or animal digestive gas. In reality there is only one way to stop the natural cycles of global warming or cooling would be to extinguish the sun. Watch later this week as a hurricane bares down on FL, the climate change nut jobs will go into their best act but in this lunatic world we live in instead of someone giving these idiot a dope slap and throwing them in the paddy wagon they will be protesting and demonstrating or holding up traffic or tossing soup on priceless works of art all for a good cause. LOL

Historically most Germans will blindly believe and follow anyone with a title like Dr or Prof or god forbid (Prof, DDr then it may as well come from the mouth of JC himself) regardless if its some kind of crackpot or even just a crackpot with a good spiel, history proves that out. This character trait is embedded from birth all the way through school, old Dr Goebbels knew how to work it like nobodies business, he looked for and found the most vulnerable weakness in the German psyche and used it against them and look at the problems that caused.

In the 1980's the guy who authored an inconvenient truth was spewing the dangers of global cooling in readers digest and other publications, one problem though, he soon realized there was no money in that. The rest is history if anyone cares to did just a little deeper, much of the evidence has been swept under the rug over the years due to political and activist threats and pressures.
I would like to relate something that happened to me in the mid 1980's, it is something I will never forget. My wife and I were invited to a BBQ, when we got there it seemed a little strange so I asked the woman what is going on here, she said after the meeting we will have the BBQ, what meeting I asked, the reply was a communist/socialist meeting. With that I was the ef out of there like a shot.

Some years went by and after the wall fell I saw the woman again going into the bank, I said hello and said so much for the communist/socialist thing eh? he reply was chilling. She said oh no now we are with the green party, same thing, same ideology and goals just another name. I was married for over 20 years to a woman and my kids mother who had a PhD in clinical psychology, mind games, button pushing and mental gymnastics were the order of the day in my house.
Just my own thoughts and experiences, if the mods feel it is political then please remove it.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I understand it completely, the "man made climate change" fraud has been going on for decades, sure there is climate change there always has been but it certainly is not man made. The earth did not warm up from the ice age due to any sort of industry, transportation or animal digestive gas. In reality there is only one way to stop the natural cycles of global warming or cooling would be to extinguish the sun. Watch later this week as a hurricane bares down on FL, the climate change nut jobs will go into their best act but in this lunatic world we live in instead of someone giving these idiot a dope slap and throwing them in the paddy wagon they will be protesting and demonstrating or holding up traffic or tossing soup on priceless works of art all for a good cause. LOL

Historically most Germans will blindly believe and follow anyone with a title like Dr or Prof or god forbid (Prof, DDr then it may as well come from the mouth of JC himself) regardless if its some kind of crackpot or even just a crackpot with a good spiel, history proves that out. This character trait is embedded from birth all the way through school, old Dr Goebbels knew how to work it like nobodies business, he looked for and found the most vulnerable weakness in the German psyche and used it against them and look at the problems that caused.

In the 1980's the guy who authored an inconvenient truth was spewing the dangers of global cooling in readers digest and other publications, one problem though, he soon realized there was no money in that. The rest is history if anyone cares to did just a little deeper, much of the evidence has been swept under the run over the years due to political and activist threats and pressures.
I would like to relate something that happened to me in the mid 1980's, it is something I will never forget. My wife and I were invited to a BBQ, when we got there it seemed a little strange so I asked the woman what is going on here, she said after the meeting we will have the BBQ, what meeting I asked, the reply was a communist/socialist meeting. With that I was the ef out of there like a shot.

Some years went by and after the wall fell I saw the woman again going into the bank, I said hello and said so much for the communist/socialist thing eh? he reply was chilling. She said oh no now we are with the green party, same thing, same ideology and goals just another name. I was married for over 20 years to a woman and my kids mother who had a PhD in clinical psychology, mind games, button pushing and mental gymnastics were the order of the day in my house.
Just my own thoughts and experiences, if the mods feel it is political then please remove it.

Ya I remember the news articles back then and the books on the next ice age. Of course scientists will say that the scientific method involves challenging of current theories. Theories change

 

[Trav]

Follow the $$$. Time to put more work into honest Travs carbon credit scheme.

 

[OVERKILL]

That requires tracking the mileage or honesty from the driver. Here they're just implementing much higher road taxes for EVs to the point that cost way more than paying for fuel tax for the average driver. It's $200 a year now which is probably about $100 too high.

I mean, the vehicle can report it to your smart meter or to the charge stations, so unless you are Kevin Mitnick, if we implement that as the source for the data, it would be pretty fool proof IMHO.

 

[edyvw]

I mean, the vehicle can report it to your smart meter or to the charge stations, so unless you are Kevin Mitnick, if we implement that as the source for the data, it would be pretty fool proof IMHO.

In Germany it is not problem to monitor as they have annual technical checks to register car. You pay at registration what you drove previous year.

 

[OVERKILL]

People live closer to work, public transportation is better, in general they drive more fuel efficient cars (diesels were the vast majority until maybe 10 years ago?). A lot of people ride there bike to work and other places, even older people. Fuel is expensive but in general the average person uses less than here.

They also use massively less electricity, due to the cost, and heat with gas. Of course Germany can fit in Ontario 3x, so there's a geography aspect to it as well.

 

[Torrid]

Correct! wich they do already in my country at yearly inspection. With a modern car, the car manufacturers can send driving data to the government,. That's what they do in China for example.

There's been backlash here about tracking drivers, whether they're aware their phones already do that. Anything EV already possesses the capability.

 

[OVERKILL]

I don't think so. You believe the article is biased. Probably true, but its not propaganda. There clear its a projection.

I think your missing the point of why they were posted on this thread originally. It gives accurate data of what has happened to date and context as to why BMW is doing what they are doing. Just because you and I think there wrong doesn't make our projections any more correct. Time will tell.

I mean, this is pretty "advert"-ish:

Now, let's add some context to the above, they show an increase from 55TWh to ~150TWh from solar. Germany has 46GW of solar, demand at the time of this reply is 17.1GW and peak demand today was around 22GW, so already they have too much solar during the day. Now, 55TWh from 46GW is a 13.6% capacity factor, so to generate 150TWh they'd need 126GW of solar, does that not seem slightly problematic?

Now, let's do wind. Wind generated 142TWh in 2023 and the expectation is 300TWh. They have 46.2GW of wind right now, so that's a CF of 35%, so 300TWh would require 98GW. So, on a windy sunny summer day they'll have 224GW of wind and solar to deal with on a grid that might be drawing 25-30GW? That'll be loads of fun, talk about curtailment city, and they do not have anything remotely close to 200GW of export capacity, not that they could use it, because both wind and solar are widely geographically correlated, so if it's sunny and windy in Germany, it's going to be the same in all its neighbours too.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I mean, this is pretty "advert"-ish:
View attachment 242207

Now, let's add some context to the above, they show an increase from 55TWh to ~150TWh from solar. Germany has 46GW of solar, demand at the time of this reply is 17.1GW and peak demand today was around 22GW, so already they have too much solar during the day. Now, 55TWh from 46GW is a 13.6% capacity factor, so to generate 150TWh they'd need 126GW of solar, does that not seem slightly problematic?

Now, let's do wind. Wind generated 142TWh in 2023 and the expectation is 300TWh. They have 46.2GW of wind right now, so that's a CF of 35%, so 300TWh would require 98GW. So, on a windy sunny summer day they'll have 224GW of wind and solar to deal with on a grid that might be drawing 25-30GW? That'll be loads of fun, talk about curtailment city, and they do not have anything remotely close to 200GW of export capacity, not that they could use it, because both wind and solar are widely geographically correlated, so if it's sunny and windy in Germany, it's going to be the same in all its neighbours too.

All true likely. But it doesn't really matter, a significant majority of the German population believes they can get there. Hence they will continue to try.

I am not agreeing with them. I simply try to understand the other side of the argument, even if I do not agree with it. Of course no one does this anymore. They simply pick their team, and yell a the other team.

 

[edyvw]

All true likely. But it doesn't really matter, a significant majority of the German population believes they can get there. Hence they will continue to try.

I am not agreeing with them. I simply try to understand the other side of the argument, even if I do not agree with it. Of course no one does this anymore. They simply pick their team, and yell a the other team.

They will keep trying, no doubt.