BMW against short-term measures by the German government

[burbguy82]

Germany must be energy dependant due to the lack of king oil in Europe always has been.

It was one of the reasons for the implementation of "Blitzkrieg" tactics in WW2, as the German could not sustain long campaigns without victory and immediate resupply. They heavily relied on horses, nearly 90% of their ground troops were horseback, little known fact.

They would rather have Russian oil, For obvious reasons, but cant admit that to the rest of their buddies, namely us, US.

IMO, these companies know that the regulation put forward are dumb, and un realistc.

 

[Trav]

Perhaps better to leave the science to those who are appropriately educated. It's a complicated subject.

Good question why not? The problem is we don't, instead we listen to and act on the ramblings of burned out old political hacks and self proclaimed scientist.

 

[4WD]

True. Depends also what generates steam. I lived in a city that had steel mill employing 22,000 workers. The steam was their byproduct. Usually, the problem is too much heat, so you end up trying to figure out how many radiators you need to shut off. But, if there is a cold spell in September (usually there is), you will be freezing for a few days as it takes time to start boilers.
Cities that have dedicated power plants usually have OK heating.

Yes, most often too much heat - thankfully they like real windows!

 

[tcp71]

Alright, must be annoying to heat with gas, a nightmare if it leaks, here we use water or electricity.

Over half of Canada heats with natural gas so 20 million Canadians would disagree.

 

[Strumpan_]

Over half of Canada heats with natural gas so 20 million Canadians would disagree.

View attachment 242446

most of them probably didnt chose to heat with gas. The house was just setup to be heated and it's costs a fortune to change. But seems like gas is a good source of heat. Still spectical about it though.

 

[tcp71]

Saudis killed fracking 10 years ago by pumping excessive oil, and with that, bankrupting numerous small companies in the US. I think at that time, to break even, they needed the price of the barrel at $75. Could be less today.
People don't understand that it is actually in their interest to have gas above $2.50 for a gallon.

The last figure I heard (2months ago or so) was there were 226 wells completions happening in the US. Frac operations are integral to those completions. Saudi's didn't kill the actual operations.

https://www.ipaa.org/fracking/

 

[tcp71]

most of them probably didnt chose to heat with gas. The house was just setup to be heated and it's costs a fortune to change. But seems like gas is a good source of heat. Still spectical about it though.

I chose just last year. Replaced my 47 year old forced air gas furnace with a new gas furnace. Gas is still the most efficient and cleanest (based on average Canadian heating emissions) way to heat here. Minimum furnace efficiencies are now 96% mandated when replacing them.

https://phas.ubc.ca/~james/teaching/phys333/module2_lesson4.pdf

Summary:

In comparison, burning natural gas emits 50.4 g CO2 / MJ of heat released [12]. Taking the 80%
efficiency of a natural gas furnace into account, we can estimate that a natural gas furnace
emits 63 g CO2/ MJ of heat, much more than an electric heater in BC, but a little bit less than an
electric heater in Canada. Given that the US gets 50% of their electricity from coal, the
emissions there will be much higher.

 

[OVERKILL]

most of them probably didnt chose to heat with gas. The house was just setup to be heated and it's costs a fortune to change. But seems like gas is a good source of heat. Still spectical about it though.

No, most of them chose to switch from oil or electricity to gas because it was considerably less expensive.

I have a hybrid setup which uses my multi-stage gas furnace below -5C. This gives me more progressive heat, and capitalizes on the efficiency of the heat pump as well as its ability to cool the home during the summer, without going with one that would require a service and panel upgrade to be able to heat my house when it's -30C.

 

[Torrid]

I chose just last year. Replaced my 47 year old forced air gas furnace with a new gas furnace. Gas is still the most efficient and cleanest (based on average Canadian heating emissions) way to heat here. Minimum furnace efficiencies are now 96% mandated when replacing them.

https://phas.ubc.ca/~james/teaching/phys333/module2_lesson4.pdf

Summary:

In comparison, burning natural gas emits 50.4 g CO2 / MJ of heat released [12]. Taking the 80%
efficiency of a natural gas furnace into account, we can estimate that a natural gas furnace
emits 63 g CO2/ MJ of heat, much more than an electric heater in BC, but a little bit less than an
electric heater in Canada. Given that the US gets 50% of their electricity from coal, the
emissions there will be much higher.

I replaced mine 6 years ago. I didn't see a reason to go away from gas at the time either. When the hardware is there and it's going to be more efficient than the last, it still saves me money regardless.

 

[Strumpan_]

No, most of them chose to switch from oil or electricity to gas because it was considerably less expensive.

I have a hybrid setup which uses my multi-stage gas furnace below -5C. This gives me more progressive heat, and capitalizes on the efficiency of the heat pump as well as its ability to cool the home during the summer, without going with one that would require a service and panel upgrade to be able to heat my house when it's -30C.

heat pumps are also common here, really nice to have.

 

[OVERKILL]

heat pumps are also common here, really nice to have.

Yup, it's hilarious, but I can cool my entire house for less than it cost to operate my old window shaker, which really only cooled one room effectively.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

War in Ukraine affected Germany only since Germany was forced and willing to join sanctions against Russia and is spending money on that war. If they stayed out of it business would be as usual.

Yeah. It just gets me that we helped Russia and China survive wars and both being attacked by Germany + Japan. Yet now we basically have our guns aimed at Russia and China while they have theirs aimed at us too. All the while we are now allies with Germany + Japan. Crazy world we live in.

 

[tcp71]

heat pumps are also common here, really nice to have.

A heat pump is lovely and efficient. When it's below -30C for a week or two, the heat pump can't keep up so in actual cold climates we use a forced air furnace as backup, or skip the heat pump altogether and heat with gas, which is most efficient and economical. I think we've come full circle.

edit: even "arctic" heat pumps are rated to -25C. The largest I can find is 60k BTU. My furnace is 90k BTU.

 

[Bjornviken]

heat pumps are also common here, really nice to have.

geothermal heat are common in north parts in Finland, and aslo district heating

 

[OVERKILL]

A heat pump is lovely and efficient. When it's below -30C for a week or two, the heat pump can't keep up so in actual cold climates we use a forced air furnace as backup, or skip the heat pump altogether and heat with gas, which is most efficient and economical. I think we've come full circle.

edit: even "arctic" heat pumps are rated to -25C. The largest I can find is 60k BTU. My furnace is 90k BTU.

View attachment 242462

My "Cold Climate" heat pump is "rated" for -35C, but good luck getting much out of it at that temperature. My gas furnace is 2-stage and high is 115,000 BTU.

 

[Bjornviken]

A heat pump is lovely and efficient. When it's below -30C for a week or two, the heat pump can't keep up so in actual cold climates we use a forced air furnace as backup, or skip the heat pump altogether and heat with gas, which is most efficient and economical. I think we've come full circle.

edit: even "arctic" heat pumps are rated to -25C. The largest I can find is 60k BTU. My furnace is 90k BTU.

View attachment 242462

that's really depends where you live. I understand it's cheap in northern America. But in northern Europe it's not.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Yeah. It just gets me that we helped Russia and China survive wars and both being attacked by Germany + Japan. Yet now we basically have our guns aimed at Russia and China while they have theirs aimed at us too. All the while we are now allies with Germany + Japan. Crazy world we live in.

Uh. Not really

 

[SC Maintenance]

geothermal heat are common in north parts in Finland, and aslo district heating

District heating is a pretty good setup, but wouldn't work in USA - our population density is too low.

43% of US electricity is produced with natural gas. So we can ship natural gas to a power plant, burn it to spin a turbine, to generate electricity, step it up, ship it down a long wire, step it down, run it through a resistive heater or heat pump, to heat a house.

Or, burn the natural gas in a furnace and blow the hot air directly into the house.

Take a wild guess which is more efficient - in BTU to heat terms.

Natural gas heat is awesome.