BMW 7
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It sounds like a Monday morning car, the workers are still hanging over from the weekend.
This is what scares me about the German brands. Great to drive but when they go bad they go so very, very bad. Entirely unacceptable in the worse case examples. Fingers crossed that I have a good one?!
This is not so easily blamed on a Monday morning scenario. The suppliers to BMW would all have to align their individual quality failures ~ virtually impossible. However, the scope of problems does suggest this car is a total lemon which speaks to a bigger problem that the OEM has spec'd inferior components.
The Monday morning thing is just a saying, don't over think it.
They should consider the Lexus LS
Originally Posted by Trav
It sounds like a Monday morning car, the workers are still hanging over from the weekend.
The Monday and Friday thing started from the seventies. I don't think it applies much these days. Robots don't have the problems that humans do.
It sounds like a Monday morning car, the workers are still hanging over from the weekend.
The Monday and Friday thing started from the seventies. I don't think it applies much these days. Robots don't have the problems that humans do.
I travelled to Germany for work once and had a software salesman take me out to lunch (as part of a big group) in his fairly new Mercedes sedan.
It was a really nice vehicle inside and I told him so, he replied that he liked it but it was much better with the 3l programming it came with instead of the 2l setting it was on during that drive.
I had no idea what he was talking about and he said that the vehicle was supposed to be programmed to act like a 2l engine based on the price he paid but he got 3l programming by mistake...he was very happy about the performance until he took it in for service and the techs noticed the mistake and changed it to the 2l programming. Apparently a common engine was used for a number of variants and software was used to change the performance to be appropriate for the particular "model" that was purchased, and that he was very disappointed to find that his car was less peppy AND got worse fuel mileage when he got it back with the undesired 2l programming (not sure it if was gas or diesel).
I told him that sounded pretty crazy and he agreed...I have honestly never heard of anything quite like that since and I am still not sure if he was just messing with me. Obviously there is lots of tuning through adjusting software and very similar engines can have somewhat different power performance numbers in different applications...I knew from some Italian friends that 2l was a major inflection point in taxation levels based on engine displacement in their country, but the idea of using a bigger engine and detuning it so much through software that it was legally considered to be a smaller engine really perplexed me.
Or, maybe it was a turbo with the boost being adjusted and the 2l/3l levels just represented equivalent performance somehow?
That guy was the best salesman I ever met, BTW, he came to that office prepared to make his sales pitch in German and switched to absolutely perfect English on the fly when he realized there were Americans visiting. His presentation was thorough and delivered flawlessly, plus he knew his products inside and out.
It was a really nice vehicle inside and I told him so, he replied that he liked it but it was much better with the 3l programming it came with instead of the 2l setting it was on during that drive.
I had no idea what he was talking about and he said that the vehicle was supposed to be programmed to act like a 2l engine based on the price he paid but he got 3l programming by mistake...he was very happy about the performance until he took it in for service and the techs noticed the mistake and changed it to the 2l programming. Apparently a common engine was used for a number of variants and software was used to change the performance to be appropriate for the particular "model" that was purchased, and that he was very disappointed to find that his car was less peppy AND got worse fuel mileage when he got it back with the undesired 2l programming (not sure it if was gas or diesel).
I told him that sounded pretty crazy and he agreed...I have honestly never heard of anything quite like that since and I am still not sure if he was just messing with me. Obviously there is lots of tuning through adjusting software and very similar engines can have somewhat different power performance numbers in different applications...I knew from some Italian friends that 2l was a major inflection point in taxation levels based on engine displacement in their country, but the idea of using a bigger engine and detuning it so much through software that it was legally considered to be a smaller engine really perplexed me.
Or, maybe it was a turbo with the boost being adjusted and the 2l/3l levels just represented equivalent performance somehow?
That guy was the best salesman I ever met, BTW, he came to that office prepared to make his sales pitch in German and switched to absolutely perfect English on the fly when he realized there were Americans visiting. His presentation was thorough and delivered flawlessly, plus he knew his products inside and out.
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
I travelled to Germany for work once and had a software salesman take me out to lunch (as part of a big group) in his fairly new Mercedes sedan.
It was a really nice vehicle inside and I told him so, he replied that he liked it but it was much better with the 3l programming it came with instead of the 2l setting it was on during that drive.
I had no idea what he was talking about and he said that the vehicle was supposed to be programmed to act like a 2l engine based on the price he paid but he got 3l programming by mistake...he was very happy about the performance until he took it in for service and the techs noticed the mistake and changed it to the 2l programming. Apparently a common engine was used for a number of variants and software was used to change the performance to be appropriate for the particular "model" that was purchased, and that he was very disappointed to find that his car was less peppy AND got worse fuel mileage when he got it back with the undesired 2l programming (not sure it if was gas or diesel).
I told him that sounded pretty crazy and he agreed...I have honestly never heard of anything quite like that since and I am still not sure if he was just messing with me. Obviously there is lots of tuning through adjusting software and very similar engines can have somewhat different power performance numbers in different applications...I knew from some Italian friends that 2l was a major inflection point in taxation levels based on engine displacement in their country, but the idea of using a bigger engine and detuning it so much through software that it was legally considered to be a smaller engine really perplexed me.
Or, maybe it was a turbo with the boost being adjusted and the 2l/3l levels just represented equivalent performance somehow?
That guy was the best salesman I ever met, BTW, he came to that office prepared to make his sales pitch in German and switched to absolutely perfect English on the fly when he realized there were Americans visiting. His presentation was thorough and delivered flawlessly, plus he knew his products inside and out.
Companies do that all the time, BMW 420 and 428 share the same engine, the 428 has just a bigger intercooler. So is in the CPU world, your Intel I5 might of started its life like an I7, but had a core that was not performing up to specs, so it gets dumbed down and sold as an I5
I travelled to Germany for work once and had a software salesman take me out to lunch (as part of a big group) in his fairly new Mercedes sedan.
It was a really nice vehicle inside and I told him so, he replied that he liked it but it was much better with the 3l programming it came with instead of the 2l setting it was on during that drive.
I had no idea what he was talking about and he said that the vehicle was supposed to be programmed to act like a 2l engine based on the price he paid but he got 3l programming by mistake...he was very happy about the performance until he took it in for service and the techs noticed the mistake and changed it to the 2l programming. Apparently a common engine was used for a number of variants and software was used to change the performance to be appropriate for the particular "model" that was purchased, and that he was very disappointed to find that his car was less peppy AND got worse fuel mileage when he got it back with the undesired 2l programming (not sure it if was gas or diesel).
I told him that sounded pretty crazy and he agreed...I have honestly never heard of anything quite like that since and I am still not sure if he was just messing with me. Obviously there is lots of tuning through adjusting software and very similar engines can have somewhat different power performance numbers in different applications...I knew from some Italian friends that 2l was a major inflection point in taxation levels based on engine displacement in their country, but the idea of using a bigger engine and detuning it so much through software that it was legally considered to be a smaller engine really perplexed me.
Or, maybe it was a turbo with the boost being adjusted and the 2l/3l levels just represented equivalent performance somehow?
That guy was the best salesman I ever met, BTW, he came to that office prepared to make his sales pitch in German and switched to absolutely perfect English on the fly when he realized there were Americans visiting. His presentation was thorough and delivered flawlessly, plus he knew his products inside and out.
Companies do that all the time, BMW 420 and 428 share the same engine, the 428 has just a bigger intercooler. So is in the CPU world, your Intel I5 might of started its life like an I7, but had a core that was not performing up to specs, so it gets dumbed down and sold as an I5
That's pretty much my experience with BMW (and Mercedes) too.
Originally Posted by PimTac
The Monday and Friday thing started from the seventies. I don't think it applies much these days. Robots don't have the problems that humans do.
The Monday and Friday thing started from the seventies. I don't think it applies much these days. Robots don't have the problems that humans do.
The top models of MB S class and BMW 7 series are (over)complex machines and historically have the worst reliability. I don't think I'd apply this across the entire BMW line as 1,2 3 series and 5 series save the M models are significantly less complex cars and pretty reliable.
Originally Posted by DB_Cooper
Seems like customer complaints go back many years..this one on a M6 in 2008
There has never been a shortage of stupid people. His little protest only hurts him financially.
I have had no real issues with my Interlagos Blue Metallic '10 M6. But it does have the 6-speed manual.
Seems like customer complaints go back many years..this one on a M6 in 2008
There has never been a shortage of stupid people. His little protest only hurts him financially.
I have had no real issues with my Interlagos Blue Metallic '10 M6. But it does have the 6-speed manual.
The owner mistook buil-to-lease vehicle for a real thing.
Link for the latest TÃœV-Report
Porsche rules there.
Link for the latest TÃœV-Report
Porsche rules there.
Over the years I have got a few big newer BMW's for relatively short money because they were problem riddled and at that time out of their one year (Euro) warranty.
I got an 850 with low km because it was in the shop more than it drove for a skip shift fault with the manual transmission.
Some of the best big ones were the rental fleet equipped models like the old 728i stick shift, they had much less equipment than their fully outfitted retail counterparts. Those things ran forever and had very little trouble.
I got an 850 with low km because it was in the shop more than it drove for a skip shift fault with the manual transmission.
Some of the best big ones were the rental fleet equipped models like the old 728i stick shift, they had much less equipment than their fully outfitted retail counterparts. Those things ran forever and had very little trouble.
Awesome !!
Years ago I remember reading a story about a less than pleased BMW owner who decided to protest across the street from BMW NA office in NJ with his/her S54 engine sitting in the grass. I also remember a story about a owner whose BMW caught fire in his garage (faulty fan switch) and had the carcass transported/dumped at the BMW dealership.
Years ago I remember reading a story about a less than pleased BMW owner who decided to protest across the street from BMW NA office in NJ with his/her S54 engine sitting in the grass. I also remember a story about a owner whose BMW caught fire in his garage (faulty fan switch) and had the carcass transported/dumped at the BMW dealership.
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Originally Posted by Cardiobuck
This is what scares me about the German brands. Great to drive but when they go bad they go so very, very bad. Entirely unacceptable in the worse case examples. Fingers crossed that I have a good one?!
In all my years of ownership it's usually a tale of extremes. Either very reliable or problem ridden.
This is what scares me about the German brands. Great to drive but when they go bad they go so very, very bad. Entirely unacceptable in the worse case examples. Fingers crossed that I have a good one?!
In all my years of ownership it's usually a tale of extremes. Either very reliable or problem ridden.
Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by DB_Cooper
Seems like customer complaints go back many years..this one on a M6 in 2008
There has never been a shortage of stupid people. His little protest only hurts him financially.
I have had no real issues with my Interlagos Blue Metallic '10 M6. But it does have the 6-speed manual.
Did ya notice that they brought a broom to sweep up debris?
Originally Posted by DB_Cooper
Seems like customer complaints go back many years..this one on a M6 in 2008
There has never been a shortage of stupid people. His little protest only hurts him financially.
I have had no real issues with my Interlagos Blue Metallic '10 M6. But it does have the 6-speed manual.
Did ya notice that they brought a broom to sweep up debris?
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