Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Prohibitions do nothing.
They create crime and inflation!
Prohibitions do nothing.
They create crime and inflation!
bill in 18 states to remove your ammo
- Thread starter mcshooter
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"Wrong. We still can."
Wrong, one cannot mail a Thompson machine gun, no questions asked, a state of law that many want to change. If a person does not want to see anyone being to buy any type of weapon no questions asked then they are 'for gun control', and it's just a question of how much. If they want to see anyone being able to buy anything they they want no questions asked then please rise and be counted, so all can see and hear.
Wrong, one cannot mail a Thompson machine gun, no questions asked, a state of law that many want to change. If a person does not want to see anyone being to buy any type of weapon no questions asked then they are 'for gun control', and it's just a question of how much. If they want to see anyone being able to buy anything they they want no questions asked then please rise and be counted, so all can see and hear.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Prohibitions do nothing.
They create crime and inflation!
Very true, they only help criminals and hurt legitimate businesses and people.
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Prohibitions do nothing.
They create crime and inflation!
Very true, they only help criminals and hurt legitimate businesses and people.
Just curious: What happens to the guy that sold a legally obtained (store bought all paperwork filled out at time of sale) rifle/shotgun face to face without an FFL involved? It happens all the time here in NY and is perfectly legal. When it comes time to turn them in what does that person who sold the weapon do? Its no longer in his/her possession, a cash transaction no receipt?
Frank D
Support the NRA!
Frank D
Support the NRA!
Whenever it comes time to turn them in all of mine will have been stolen. Too bad I can't turn them in.
Quote:
Wrong, one cannot mail a Thompson machine gun
Wrong yet again. A private citizen can sell and mail a long gun to another citizen of the same state under federal law, and under state law here. One can also mail a long gun to an FFL even across state lines under federal law. Only state law in some states prohibits this. The fact that a particular gun is a class 3 weapon (SMGs and MGs) merely means that you have to pay the $200 tax on the transfer and fill out the forms for DOJ. It does not impact anything else about the transfer method.
Wrong, one cannot mail a Thompson machine gun
Wrong yet again. A private citizen can sell and mail a long gun to another citizen of the same state under federal law, and under state law here. One can also mail a long gun to an FFL even across state lines under federal law. Only state law in some states prohibits this. The fact that a particular gun is a class 3 weapon (SMGs and MGs) merely means that you have to pay the $200 tax on the transfer and fill out the forms for DOJ. It does not impact anything else about the transfer method.
JHZR2
Staff member
Ill be doing my civic duty to protect what precious litle rights we still have in NJ by writing to the senators and reps for both federal and state levels.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Just curious: What happens to the guy that sold a legally obtained (store bought all paperwork filled out at time of sale) rifle/shotgun face to face without an FFL involved? It happens all the time here in NY and is perfectly legal. When it comes time to turn them in what does that person who sold the weapon do? Its no longer in his/her possession, a cash transaction no receipt?
Frank D
Support the NRA!
Some states it is legal (as it should) that a private party can sell another one a weapon as long as they are of age. If the buyer is not legal to own, then once they get caught, throw the book at them.
That happened here, a person sold a underage person a weapon and then the buyer used it in a crime. While the book was not thrown at him, he did get jail time and his loss of ownership for life.
Since that case, EVERYBODY checks for age and most people require a bill of sale for their own records verifying with a drivers license or CCW permit.
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Whenever it comes time to turn them in all of mine will have been stolen. Too bad I can't turn them in.
Some states have/are passing laws that if you don't notify the police with all the info WITHIN 24 hours of said robbery of a weapon YOU will be charged and do jail time.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Ill be doing my civic duty to protect what precious litle rights we still have in NJ by writing to the senators and reps for both federal and state levels.
THANK YOU! Plus join a association that works for your 2nd amendment rights. (I like the one Frank D has above and am a life Member for decades)
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Let's keep it simple. Keep your hands off my guns.
Love SIMPLE! Been that way here for oil and most other things!
take care all! Bill
Just curious: What happens to the guy that sold a legally obtained (store bought all paperwork filled out at time of sale) rifle/shotgun face to face without an FFL involved? It happens all the time here in NY and is perfectly legal. When it comes time to turn them in what does that person who sold the weapon do? Its no longer in his/her possession, a cash transaction no receipt?
Frank D
Support the NRA!
Some states it is legal (as it should) that a private party can sell another one a weapon as long as they are of age. If the buyer is not legal to own, then once they get caught, throw the book at them.
That happened here, a person sold a underage person a weapon and then the buyer used it in a crime. While the book was not thrown at him, he did get jail time and his loss of ownership for life.
Since that case, EVERYBODY checks for age and most people require a bill of sale for their own records verifying with a drivers license or CCW permit.
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Whenever it comes time to turn them in all of mine will have been stolen. Too bad I can't turn them in.
Some states have/are passing laws that if you don't notify the police with all the info WITHIN 24 hours of said robbery of a weapon YOU will be charged and do jail time.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Ill be doing my civic duty to protect what precious litle rights we still have in NJ by writing to the senators and reps for both federal and state levels.
THANK YOU! Plus join a association that works for your 2nd amendment rights. (I like the one Frank D has above and am a life Member for decades)
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Let's keep it simple. Keep your hands off my guns.
Love SIMPLE! Been that way here for oil and most other things!
take care all! Bill
Bill in Utah - good man, you're telling the truth here. Just wish the liberal news media would do the same, but that's asking for too much. By the way, whenever I have discussions with gun control people I say one thing that always shuts them up: "The definition of a criminal is one who does not obey the law - so how is this new gun control law you support going to stop crime?"
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Just curious: What happens to the guy that sold a legally obtained (store bought all paperwork filled out at time of sale) rifle/shotgun face to face without an FFL involved? It happens all the time here in NY and is perfectly legal. When it comes time to turn them in what does that person who sold the weapon do? Its no longer in his/her possession, a cash transaction no receipt?
Frank D
Support the NRA!
Some states it is legal (as it should) that a private party can sell another one a weapon as long as they are of age. If the buyer is not legal to own, then once they get caught, throw the book at them.
That happened here, a person sold a underage person a weapon and then the buyer used it in a crime. While the book was not thrown at him, he did get jail time and his loss of ownership for life.
Since that case, EVERYBODY checks for age and most people require a bill of sale for their own records verifying with a drivers license or CCW permit.
Thanks Bill,
To make it a little clearer. I am referring to long guns leagally sold years ago to a co-worker who resided in NYS. I no longer see this person or have any idea where he is now. No bill of sale or copy of his DL. If/when it comes time to turn them in what happens to a person who sold a rifle/shotgun under those conditions? Are they going to search his property for the gun/guns?
The NRA better be working OT for the next 4 years!
Frank D
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Just curious: What happens to the guy that sold a legally obtained (store bought all paperwork filled out at time of sale) rifle/shotgun face to face without an FFL involved? It happens all the time here in NY and is perfectly legal. When it comes time to turn them in what does that person who sold the weapon do? Its no longer in his/her possession, a cash transaction no receipt?
Frank D
Support the NRA!
Some states it is legal (as it should) that a private party can sell another one a weapon as long as they are of age. If the buyer is not legal to own, then once they get caught, throw the book at them.
That happened here, a person sold a underage person a weapon and then the buyer used it in a crime. While the book was not thrown at him, he did get jail time and his loss of ownership for life.
Since that case, EVERYBODY checks for age and most people require a bill of sale for their own records verifying with a drivers license or CCW permit.
Thanks Bill,
To make it a little clearer. I am referring to long guns leagally sold years ago to a co-worker who resided in NYS. I no longer see this person or have any idea where he is now. No bill of sale or copy of his DL. If/when it comes time to turn them in what happens to a person who sold a rifle/shotgun under those conditions? Are they going to search his property for the gun/guns?
The NRA better be working OT for the next 4 years!
Frank D
Police minister put it so succinctly seconds ago on the idjit box.
"If Australians are continually prepared to pay such high prices for their recreational drugs, criminals will continue to target Australia with their drugs"
Whattthe ?
"If Australians are continually prepared to pay such high prices for their recreational drugs, criminals will continue to target Australia with their drugs"
Whattthe ?
"I am referring to long guns leagally sold years ago to a co-worker who resided in NYS. I no longer see this person or have any idea where he is now." Frank D.
According to federal law, those records are sealed and are not to be opened unless the serial # is found on a criminally confiscated weapon. Them mfgr. records are checked, the distributor records, and finally the retailers forms are opened to find original purchaser. This is all supposed to require warrant from fed judge.
Bob
According to federal law, those records are sealed and are not to be opened unless the serial # is found on a criminally confiscated weapon. Them mfgr. records are checked, the distributor records, and finally the retailers forms are opened to find original purchaser. This is all supposed to require warrant from fed judge.
Bob
"Wrong yet again. A private citizen can sell and mail a long gun to another citizen of the same state under federal law, and under state law here. One can also mail a long gun to an FFL even across state lines under federal law. Only state law in some states prohibits this. The fact that a particular gun is a class 3 weapon (SMGs and MGs) merely means that you have to pay the $200 tax on the transfer and fill out the forms for DOJ. It does not impact anything else about the transfer method."
Mail order to anyone, no questions asked..... right.....
http://www.targetworld.net/Steps for buying NFA (Class III Weaponry) 11-3-07.pdf
THE PAPERWORK SPECIFICS:
Class III includes, but is not limited to: machine guns, silencers, destructive devices, all other weapons (AOW: cane guns, pen guns, etc.), short-barreled rifles (SBR), short-barrel shotguns (SBS).
1. You must be at least 21 old and legal buy a handgun (meaning no felonies, violent misdemeanors, dishonorable discharges, etc.).
2. Call your local CLEO (chief law enforcement officer - sheriff, police chief, etc.) and ask what his procedure is for signing Form 4 (federal applications for NFA transfer and ownership-the dealers supplies).
Make sure that he will sign for you BEFORE you buy the firearm. If he won't sign, you can't get the gun. Make sure you can own it BEFORE you buy it, as payment must be made in full before the firearm is ordered. (You have to have the serial number before any paperwork can be processed to begin the transfer.)
3. Get two 2" X 2" color passport photographs. Attach one to the reverse side of each of the two copies of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) Form 4 (Target World supplied). These photos typically cost $5 to $10 and are commonly done at places like Kinkos and Walgreens.
4. Complete a small section on the reverse side of the BATF Form 4 that declares why you wish to possess the item. Most folks say "collector of firearms" or “target shooting.”
5. Take the two copies of the Form 4, with pictures attached and your section completed, to your local law enforcement agency. Also take the two FBI FD-258 fingerprint cards we will give you. Ask the agency to officially take your fingerprints. This will usually cost $10 to $15.
You have to get a local CLEO to sign off and complete the section on the reverse side of the Form 4. This merely attests that you are not wanted locally and that the official knows of no law which will be broken if you are approved by the government. The official signing should be made aware that they are not held liable if you do something stupid or break the law
http://arizonagunlist.com/How_to_buy_NFA...EO_signoff.html
If you are not a prohibited possessor of firearms in general, and your state allows ownership of NFA weapons, then you can buy or make one yourself. The process is straight forward:
Find and purchase the weapon you want through your local Class 3 gun dealer. You can also perform a Form 4 transfer between private citizens at a Class 3 gun dealer (or without the dealer if both parties are in the same state). The dealer will start the paper work once the item is paid for (the paper work is weapon specific, and must have measurements, or serial numbers as needed).
File the appropriate paper work, usually a BATFE Form 1 or Form 4 (including fingerprints, your recent photo, and a signature from your local chief law enforcement officer (usually the sheriff), and send in the standard fee of $200). If you are transferring an AOW then the fee is only $5.
Wait one or two months, or longer if there are errors in the paper work, for approval and pick up your new NFA weapon at the Class 3 gun dealer.
Now while that may seem to be a simple process, many people have run into chief law enforcement officers (CLEOs) that don't understand what the sign off on the BATFE form is and won't sign it. The reason why the BATFE wants a CLEO signature is to attest that the CLEO has no reason to expect the applicant to commit any wrong doing with the weapon they are making or transferring. The CELO also attests that the applicant will not be in violation of state or local law by possessing an NFA weapon.
Mail order to anyone, no questions asked..... right.....
http://www.targetworld.net/Steps for buying NFA (Class III Weaponry) 11-3-07.pdf
THE PAPERWORK SPECIFICS:
Class III includes, but is not limited to: machine guns, silencers, destructive devices, all other weapons (AOW: cane guns, pen guns, etc.), short-barreled rifles (SBR), short-barrel shotguns (SBS).
1. You must be at least 21 old and legal buy a handgun (meaning no felonies, violent misdemeanors, dishonorable discharges, etc.).
2. Call your local CLEO (chief law enforcement officer - sheriff, police chief, etc.) and ask what his procedure is for signing Form 4 (federal applications for NFA transfer and ownership-the dealers supplies).
Make sure that he will sign for you BEFORE you buy the firearm. If he won't sign, you can't get the gun. Make sure you can own it BEFORE you buy it, as payment must be made in full before the firearm is ordered. (You have to have the serial number before any paperwork can be processed to begin the transfer.)
3. Get two 2" X 2" color passport photographs. Attach one to the reverse side of each of the two copies of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) Form 4 (Target World supplied). These photos typically cost $5 to $10 and are commonly done at places like Kinkos and Walgreens.
4. Complete a small section on the reverse side of the BATF Form 4 that declares why you wish to possess the item. Most folks say "collector of firearms" or “target shooting.”
5. Take the two copies of the Form 4, with pictures attached and your section completed, to your local law enforcement agency. Also take the two FBI FD-258 fingerprint cards we will give you. Ask the agency to officially take your fingerprints. This will usually cost $10 to $15.
You have to get a local CLEO to sign off and complete the section on the reverse side of the Form 4. This merely attests that you are not wanted locally and that the official knows of no law which will be broken if you are approved by the government. The official signing should be made aware that they are not held liable if you do something stupid or break the law
http://arizonagunlist.com/How_to_buy_NFA...EO_signoff.html
If you are not a prohibited possessor of firearms in general, and your state allows ownership of NFA weapons, then you can buy or make one yourself. The process is straight forward:
Find and purchase the weapon you want through your local Class 3 gun dealer. You can also perform a Form 4 transfer between private citizens at a Class 3 gun dealer (or without the dealer if both parties are in the same state). The dealer will start the paper work once the item is paid for (the paper work is weapon specific, and must have measurements, or serial numbers as needed).
File the appropriate paper work, usually a BATFE Form 1 or Form 4 (including fingerprints, your recent photo, and a signature from your local chief law enforcement officer (usually the sheriff), and send in the standard fee of $200). If you are transferring an AOW then the fee is only $5.
Wait one or two months, or longer if there are errors in the paper work, for approval and pick up your new NFA weapon at the Class 3 gun dealer.
Now while that may seem to be a simple process, many people have run into chief law enforcement officers (CLEOs) that don't understand what the sign off on the BATFE form is and won't sign it. The reason why the BATFE wants a CLEO signature is to attest that the CLEO has no reason to expect the applicant to commit any wrong doing with the weapon they are making or transferring. The CELO also attests that the applicant will not be in violation of state or local law by possessing an NFA weapon.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Police minister put it so succinctly seconds ago on the idjit box.
"If Australians are continually prepared to pay such high prices for their recreational drugs, criminals will continue to target Australia with their drugs"
Whattthe ?
Someone has a distinct lack of understanding in supply and demand.
Police minister put it so succinctly seconds ago on the idjit box.
"If Australians are continually prepared to pay such high prices for their recreational drugs, criminals will continue to target Australia with their drugs"
Whattthe ?
Someone has a distinct lack of understanding in supply and demand.
Corporations are exempt from the 'permission.' When a corp owns a Class III, the corp can designate who can have and operate the weapon without the president of the corp being physically present. So, pack it in a canvas bag and mail it to the employee at your other location, no questions asked.
No self-made firearms are or can be required to have serial numbers. The rest of your drivel (why don't you just use the ATF's FAQ page and the CFRs instead of dealer pages? Doesn't that make it sound onerous enough for you?) is not functionally unique to class 3 weapons, with the possible exception of fingerprints. They're generic to all firearms sales. Background check, paperwork, and fees. Pictures are not functionally unique. Fingerprints are required for concealed carry permits (which let you out of the background check at time of sale of other firearms, even in your communist state), so for many of us, there's absolutely nothing to class III ownership except for the paperwork and fees.
No need of further arm-waving fear-mongering here. People must be expected to be responsible adults.
No self-made firearms are or can be required to have serial numbers. The rest of your drivel (why don't you just use the ATF's FAQ page and the CFRs instead of dealer pages? Doesn't that make it sound onerous enough for you?) is not functionally unique to class 3 weapons, with the possible exception of fingerprints. They're generic to all firearms sales. Background check, paperwork, and fees. Pictures are not functionally unique. Fingerprints are required for concealed carry permits (which let you out of the background check at time of sale of other firearms, even in your communist state), so for many of us, there's absolutely nothing to class III ownership except for the paperwork and fees.
No need of further arm-waving fear-mongering here. People must be expected to be responsible adults.
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What happened to the other 3 pages of this thread? Last night this topic had 6 pages and counting, now it is showing only 3?
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Do you use a 30-06 rifle to defend your house?
30-06, depends on where your house is. Don't think a pistol would be preferable to a rifle with real powder when there is a big animals outside your door. Not saying that everyone lives in the sticks, but it's still a valid point. What about those who live on farms who have to take out the coyotes and wolves? Don't think I would want to challenge a predator with a Buckmark or a .25.
Do you use a 30-06 rifle to defend your house?
30-06, depends on where your house is. Don't think a pistol would be preferable to a rifle with real powder when there is a big animals outside your door. Not saying that everyone lives in the sticks, but it's still a valid point. What about those who live on farms who have to take out the coyotes and wolves? Don't think I would want to challenge a predator with a Buckmark or a .25.
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Couple of points:
1 - Tim McVeigh and company were able to procure what they needed by whatever means and were only discovered after the fact. Labeling of anything will more often than not allow the authorities to trace the items, etc. back to where they were stolen from only after the fact. Todays terrorists use common items to manufacture their mayhem.
2 - Maybe I missed it in the midst of all this discussion. The 2nd Amendment wasn't written so a farmer could protect his livestock, or a man his home, these were a given. It was written to protect the common man from an opressive government. The right to keep and bear arms was and is designed to keep our government in check. To take it one step further, militias were supposed to be locally organized groups, not government controlled guard or reserves. Arms back then were equal to what the Continental Army had. Cannons and such were locally posessed and maintained along with powder magazines. Agreed that todays society isn't yesterdays. But! Let's not go throwing out the baby with the bath water. The original intent of the Second Amendment remains.
Steve
PS No I don't belong to any such group mentioned above.
1 - Tim McVeigh and company were able to procure what they needed by whatever means and were only discovered after the fact. Labeling of anything will more often than not allow the authorities to trace the items, etc. back to where they were stolen from only after the fact. Todays terrorists use common items to manufacture their mayhem.
2 - Maybe I missed it in the midst of all this discussion. The 2nd Amendment wasn't written so a farmer could protect his livestock, or a man his home, these were a given. It was written to protect the common man from an opressive government. The right to keep and bear arms was and is designed to keep our government in check. To take it one step further, militias were supposed to be locally organized groups, not government controlled guard or reserves. Arms back then were equal to what the Continental Army had. Cannons and such were locally posessed and maintained along with powder magazines. Agreed that todays society isn't yesterdays. But! Let's not go throwing out the baby with the bath water. The original intent of the Second Amendment remains.
Steve
PS No I don't belong to any such group mentioned above.
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