Best New Mid-Size SUV ?

[edyvw]

I guess we need a score card for how badly each manufacturer treats its customers. They all do it, but its how often they won't recall or do a goodwill fix, and how much it costs the customer to fix, is the real question.

In general, I get the impression that Toyota and Honda as a whole brand tend to have less major engineering and/or supplier parts quality issues, and therefore leave some customers hanging less often, but they certainly still do have some major problems and they don't always fix it free of charge...

GM/Ford/Stellantis seem to be fail more often in design and parts quality, so while something like a Jeep heater core failure at 7 years isn't super common, its still a 4 figure repair, that is much less common in the average Toyota?

It's too bad this site seems to have not been popular enough to be updated beyond 2023, but it seems to show why each brand has its reputation. https://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Honda_Accord.html

It seems that evaporators are becoming big issue with this new gas.

 

[trd1zz]

My point is that it's a mechanical defect (known mechanical defect) that Toyota CHOSE not to address because they could. The morally pure Toyota that advocates fantasize about would have addressed this, they didn't because that company doesn't exist, it's a fictional construct.

But the owners are still hung out to dry with the same engines, prone to the same failure, yet again underscoring that this isn't some moralistic endeavor by Toyota, driven by some social conscious, but rather one tied to the implications of an NHTSA safety recall, which ties into your argument with @edyvw.

I haven't quite figured out with who (or why) you are intent on arguing against the position that Toyota is a perfect, morally pure company that never does any wrong. Toyota is an auto manufacturer that exists among other auto manufacturers - all of which will gladly take all of your money. That however does not mean that all auto manufacturers offer an equivalent product, have equivalent customer satisfaction, or have an equivalent reputation in the marketplace.

Right, the 2024+ engines are failing for a completely different reason than the 2022/2023 engines, and to assume that they might just be affected by the same issue is obscene and borders on slanderous!
https://www.tundras.com/threads/tundra-engine-failure-analysis.161753/

The charts there, in that thread, show 7 examples of blown 2024 MY engines, which, while less than the 25 2023 MY engines, is still significant.

7 failures... out of ~160,000 Tundras sold in '24? And yes, you are speculating. Unless you've torn one down?

And there it is, like Trudeau's Crying Tour, the assurances that Toyota will always endeavor to "do the right thing©" and this would have nothing to do with it being an NHTSA mandated safety issue.

Nah, it's just logical thinking. Nothing to do with Toyota. The right thing to do in this situation is obvious.

At this point with a safety recall filed with a federal agency, I'd assume that ANY manufacturer would extend the pool of affected vehicles if it were determined that they in fact suffer from the exact same safety issue.

Well, maybe not ANY manufacturer... because, you know, Volkswagen doesn't really have the best track record with transparency with the federal government...

 

[trd1zz]

I guess we need a score card for how badly each manufacturer treats its customers. They all do it, but its how often they won't recall or do a goodwill fix, and how much it costs the customer to fix, is the real question.

In general, I get the impression that Toyota and Honda as a whole brand tend to have less major engineering and/or supplier parts quality issues, and therefore leave some customers hanging less often, but they certainly still do have some major problems and they don't always fix it free of charge!

GM/Ford/Stellantis seem to be fail more often in design and parts quality, so while something like a Jeep heater core failure at 7 years isn't super common, its still a 4 figure repair, that is much less common in the average Toyota?

Exactly. Some manufacturers do (much) better than others.

That those that do better aren't perfect, doesn't mean they don't do better.

 

[trd1zz]

As far as I know, and I might be wrong, the V6 TT in the Tundra is a different engine than the V8 in GM? Am I right?
So what makes you think they have 100% same issue? Different engines, different problems.
Now, that does not mean GM is doing right thing, and that GM won;t actually end up having worse problem ending up replacing engines anyway.
Remember, Sequoia has a lot of engine failures, but yet, getting new engine is not that easy bcs. hybrid powerplant.
Not to mention that 24-25 have the same rod bearing failure, and Toyota is trying to pull a fast one on that because. It is not part of the official recall.

Um, yeah? Machining debris that can ultimately (possibly) cause engine to seize, out of nowhere, no warning. Safety issue.

One manufacturer's remedy is a new engine.

The other manufacturer's remedy is a new oil cap.

Which remedy do you want?

 

[edyvw]

Um, yeah? Machining debris that can ultimately (possibly) cause engine to seize, out of nowhere, no warning. Safety issue.

One manufacturer's remedy is a new engine.

The other manufacturer's remedy is a new oil cap.

Which remedy do you want?

New engine is only 2022-2023 ICE bcs. NHTSA. Hybrids can drive on Duracell.
And 2024-2025 ICE only can scream here and on other forums how Toyota is best. Maybe they stumble upon you to get some necessary confirmation bias.

 

[trd1zz]

New engine is only 2022-2023 ICE bcs. NHTSA. 2024-2025 can drive on Duracell.

From all credible official information currently available the 2024-2025 are unaffected! Are we going in circles here?!

 

[4WD]

The Super Duty's had cab off as pretty much standard "step 1" for a lot of engine bay repairs. For Audi, yes, there were cars where step 1 was to remove the front of the car.

As I said before - our Ford has a bay dedicated to cab off w/ two techs. These are mostly work trucks for farmers/ranchers and oilfield - and they want that truck on a heavy gooseneck in the morning …

 

[edyvw]

From all credible official information currently available the 2024-2025 are unaffected! Are we going in circles here?!

Lol, sure.
You mean, Toyota still trying to pull fast one on owners?
https://www.tundras.com/threads/2024-sequoia-engine-failure.145023/
https://www.tundras.com/threads/2025-engine-failure.155107/

Summary of 74 failures, one 2025 has a failure after 1270 miles.
https://www.tundras.com/threads/3-4-i-force-engine-failures.121107/page-3

VW in Europe pulled this on several thousand 1.9tdi engines in the SKoda Octavia. Turbo bearingw as an issue. They did not say anything. You come to the dealer and they are: oh yeah, you will get a new turbo bcs. VW ......

Of course, considering the number of engines that are failing, as one can read there, they are also now trying just to fix engines on 2024 and 2025.

 

[OilUzer]

@edyvw

What kind of major or other issues you have with your Sequoia?

I like my 5.7L V8 Tundra and my very old 3.4L V6 Tacoma. Both are MPFI.

Wanted to get a V8 Sequoia (same engine as Tundra) if the price was right. They are not cheap.

 

[edyvw]

@edyvw

What kind of major or other issues you have with your Sequoia?

I like my 5.7L V8 Tundra and my very old 3.4L V6 Tacoma. Both are MPFI.

Wanted to get a V8 Sequoia (same engine as Tundra) if the price was right. They are not cheap.

Two things are driving price of used Sequoia:
1. Junky 3.4TT in new one. But, that might be fixed, eventually. Not sure about performance. It is a very inefficient engine for what it is.
2. Space. New Sequoia is an absolute abomination of a vehicle (I personally think it looks fantastic). It is made for YouTube bros who complained how old one has independent suspension, so it cannot articulate properly while rock crawling, etc. The trunk is small (Atlas has a bigger trunk), the third row is nonexistent (because of the solid axle and batteries), and the assembly is horrid.
So, I made a decision last November as I could see prices going up every month. I have seen some 2020 and 2021 more expensive than slightly used 2023.

From people I know:
Chain tensioner.
Valve cover leaks (internal leak, hard to spot).
The biggest issue seems to be the Center differential leak on the actuator. Diff has to go down. Water pumps leak around 100-120k.
I mean, it is a stout engine and transmission combo. Rust seems to be a problem, as with all Toyotas in northern states.
It will be seen about that head gasket issue that the Car Care Nut guy was talking about. There is no doubt that the head gasket is not designed as stout as the 4.7 V8. But, many of them made 300,000mls and more. So, I immediately flushed coolant, as according to CCN, that might be the culprit. But who knows?
The thing is in that category, IMO, it is just the right size. Not too big like Suburban, not tight in the third row like Tahoe.
I think I can feel pulsation on the brake pedal. Brakes were new when I got car with 64k, not it has 79,000. Nothing unexpected. Toyota and brakes are not going in the same sentence. I had the same issue with Sienna, GX470, and Prado in Europe. I already bought Pagid pads and EBC rotors, so once it happens, I will just slap it on.
And yes, mpg is on par R25 Tumanski engine in MIG21.

 

[HighHy21]

Didn't VW have a recall on the 3.6L VR6 on the connecting rods for 2022-2023? For an engine that's being produced since 2006? For particle contamination in the engine oil from the connecting rod bearings? NHTSA Campaign #: 23V593000

With the rationale that the 3.4L TT that the are unreliable for the due to debris in the engine, shouldn't the same apply to the VW Atlas?

 

[edyvw]

Didn't VW have a recall on the 3.6L VR6 on the connecting rods for 2022-2023? For an engine that's being produced since 2006? For particle contamination in the engine oil from the connecting rod bearings? NHTSA Campaign #: 23V593000

With the rationale that the 3.4L TT that the are unreliable for the due to debris in the engine, shouldn't the same apply to the VW Atlas?

3.4TT is design issue. They are still failing. That engine will require revision.
VW has issues with suppliers for several years. We discussed that. It includes hostile takeovers, murder, attempted murder etc. It is whole soap drama.

 

[OVERKILL]

I haven't quite figured out with who (or why) you are intent on arguing against the position that Toyota is a perfect, morally pure company that never does any wrong. Toyota is an auto manufacturer that exists among other auto manufacturers - all of which will gladly take all of your money. That however does not mean that all auto manufacturers offer an equivalent product, have equivalent customer satisfaction, or have an equivalent reputation in the marketplace.

The "True Believers", you at least cede some ground here, so I'm not lumping you into that camp, but there are folks that honestly believe that Toyota is on some moralistic plane high above everyone else and does every recall or TSB out of the goodness of their noble heart.

7 failures... out of ~160,000 Tundras sold in '24? And yes, you are speculating. Unless you've torn one down?

Again, look at the graphs in the thread, unless you want me to post them here? 25 failures for 2023 MY (so far), 7 for 2024 MY (so far). Failures seem most common between 40,000 and 60,000 miles, which is why the OP speculates that the numbers for 2024 MY vehicles will be increasing. And no, it's not 7 out 160,000 Tundra trucks sold, it's 7 out of however many Tundra owners are on that forum:

Here's the referenced failure thread:
https://www.tundras.com/threads/3-4-i-force-engine-failures.121107/

Nah, it's just logical thinking. Nothing to do with Toyota. The right thing to do in this situation is obvious.

At this point with a safety recall filed with a federal agency, I'd assume that ANY manufacturer would extend the pool of affected vehicles if it were determined that they in fact suffer from the exact same safety issue.

Well, maybe not ANY manufacturer... because, you know, Volkswagen doesn't really have the best track record with transparency with the federal government...

We'll see what happens if, as the guys on the Tundra forums speculate, the numbers for 2024 MY trucks tick up, whether it's the NHTSA that acts first, or Toyota.

 

[OVERKILL]

I guess we need a score card for how badly each manufacturer treats its customers. They all do it, but its how often they won't recall or do a goodwill fix, and how much it costs the customer to fix, is the real question.

In general, I get the impression that Toyota and Honda as a whole brand tend to have less major engineering and/or supplier parts quality issues, and therefore leave some customers hanging less often, but they certainly still do have some major problems and they don't always fix it free of charge!

GM/Ford/Stellantis seem to be fail more often in design and parts quality, so while something like a Jeep heater core failure at 7 years isn't super common, its still a 4 figure repair, that is much less common in the average Toyota?

It's too bad this site seems to have not been popular enough to be updated beyond 2023, but it seems to show why each brand has its reputation. https://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Honda_Accord.html

A HUGE part of this comes down to the dealership. The SM has a major role in what gets covered and advocating for good will on stuff that might warrant it. I know since the creation of Stellantis, I get far more surveys about my dealership experience than I did back when it was FCA, and they ask questions about timeliness, whether you had to book an appointment, was the work completed satisfactorily the first time, was I provided a loaner...etc. Now, will this actually force the dealerships to do better? I think we'll have to wait and see on that.

Based on the JD Power summaries we looked at earlier, I wouldn't lump Honda in with Toyota. There are several GM nameplates that do better than Honda and MUCH better than Acura, in the reliability metrics.

In fact, taking this one step further, it's Lexus that really manages to top these surveys (along with Buick), Toyota's luxury division, while Honda's luxury division, Acura, does markedly worse than most of the German brands.

 

[Nessism1]

There is a reason why Toyota sells more vehicles than any other auto company on the planet. They make desirable vehicles.

There is a reason why Toyota consistently ranks way up the consumer ratings at both JD Powers Durability, IQS, and Consumer's Report surveys. They make reliable vehicles.

Toyota has had their share of quality problems, but all in all, they fix them.

Companies like VW has cooling system problems that carry on for decades. Companies like BMW have timing and cooling system problems which drive high "maintenance" costs, at mileages way lower than other OEM's for similar components.

In the end, pick a vehicle that meets your sensibilities, and live with it. No auto company is perfect, but Toyota is more perfect than most.