Best HDEO's (And Why)??

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Well all know that when it comes to automotive engine oils, the top three are:

Chevron Supreme
Pennzoil
Castrol GTX

Now what about heavy-duty engine oils? Looking at spec. sheets and seeing analysis numbers on additive packages, how would you rank the best HDEO's and why???

Think Delo is the best..why?
Is Delvac 1300 just as good?
Is Long-Life the underdog that is actually better?

Just looking for some lively discussion here...
 
Somethings that turn me off about Long-Life:

Pennzoil does not respond to e-mails.

Product Data Sheets not kept as up-to-date as Delo and Delvac.

Labels on bottle are out-of-date, not showing Cat. ECF-1 and Mack EO-N Premium Plus '03 specifications that it supposedly meets.

Older oil forumulation - Sulfated ash is up at 1.47 or so, whereas Delo and Delvac are both running lower levels now, around 1.3%.

(All of these make it seem as if Pennzoil just simply doesn't care that much about their product, or their customers, unless your run a truck fleet or something...)

Bottle itself makes oil look like gimmick...when you're used to the straight-forward approach of Delo, the "Funnel-flow" adjustable neck and label with pictures of trucks makes it look like a posuer. I don't mind so much, but when you try to make a "convert" of someone, they laugh at the bottle (YES, this has happened to me!)

Although better than Rotella, cold-pumping is not up to Delo and Delvac level.

Sure there is some more stuff I will think of...

[ November 18, 2003, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: Jelly ]
 
Petro-Canada Duron.

because it's Canadian.

Esso/Exxon XD-3

because it's a product of the Esso lube research lab located in: Canada

Lubes here in Canada are very hard working. From temperature extremes (ice highways in winter) to very heavy loads on steep grades (British Columbia).

Equipment in the Arctic usually runs from about November to March or April, rarely shutdown for more than half an hour. Lubricants are blended for the local market and the industrial oils here need to meet some extreme conditions. Once the ground freezes, that's when the whole oil patch atually goes to work. Otherwise they'd just be stuck in the muskeg. Plus the ice highways that re-supply the north after freeze up. You just can't get anything up there (cheaply) at any other time of the year.
 
Well, right now I'm using Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 'cuz I'm mixing in some Mobil 1 with it & I wasn't comfortable mixing different oil types and brands. I also like the fact that D1300 has a bit of moly.

Temperature-wise, it's not the best oil to use here in the winter, which is part of the reason why I mixed in some M1. Cost-wise, my combo costs about the same as Rotella T syn 5W-40, so next time I may just go with that.

cheers.gif
 
In no particular order:

Delvac 1, 5w-40
Amsoil - both the Series 3000 and 15w-40
Schaeffers S7000, 15w-40
Petro Canada, Duron 5w-40/0w-30
Castrol Elixion, 5w-30 - sold in Europe as "BP Vanellus C8 Ultima"
Delo 400, 5w-40
Redline, 15w-40

TS
 
I'm currently using XD-3 0W30 in a GM 5.3L (Sierra). I noticed the PAO base so I bought. I was using Duron and will probably go back to it if I can't find XD-3 at $4.70
shocked.gif
. The numbers for Duron look slightly better than XD-3 but it's really about the grade and I find anything marketed as Premium Heavy Duty Engine Oil in the 0w30 weight to be ideal for all season use in Canada.
 
Running these now:

Delvac 1300 in my Duramax
Pennz 15W40 in JD 950, JD 2520 diesel tractors
Mobile 1 5W30 Chevy Blazer
German Castrol 0W30 in JD Gator, Honda EU2000i and soon into my Cub Cadet riding mower.
Pennz 10W30 in JD 420 gas tractor.

Last year I ran Amsoil 15W40 Diesel Marine in both diesel tractors, with Amsoil filters.The tractors do not start as well in cold weather with the Pennzoil. May switch back to Amsoil.

May change Blazer to GC or Amsoil 5W30 in a thousand miles or so.

[ November 19, 2003, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Pick ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by sub_zero:

Esso/Exxon XD-3


This stuff interests me. Have you used it much?

I just bought the 0w40, which is full PAO basestock at only ~$4.70 CDN/litre !(also available in a 0w30 PAO, other grades appear to be group III). I haven't seen a VOA on it anywhere yet. Have sent a sample in myself. My plan is to run it in my high miles toyota PU year round (currently on Mobil 1).
 
Sub0,
I have tried both the 0W40 XD-3 PAO and Duron 5W40 group III in the same vehicle, a 3.8 Windstar.
Both engine oils went 14,000 KM (9,000 mi) without using a drop.
The PC Duron 0W30 in the same vehicle started at -38C without being plugged in after sitting for 2 days.
Consumption was 1/2 litre in 6,000 KM (3700 mi) with the 0W30.
Before discarding the oil I ran it in a 94 3.3L Intrepid for 2 weeks to clean up the engine.
edit Jelly, you don't need e-mails, up to date labels, or fancy bottles, the product does what it says it does. The high ash level 1.47, is a form that follows function.

[ November 21, 2003, 05:15 AM: Message edited by: userfriendly ]
 
I've got 117 Farm and Cat engines on Delo going strong at 500 hrs between changes and very low wear rates. Also tractor Trailers going through the mountains on it where it looks new at 20,000 km. and stationary engines at 1000 hrs. These results are hard to beat.
 
Now what about heavy-duty engine oils? Looking at spec. sheets and seeing analysis numbers on additive packages, how would you rank the best HDEO's and why???
[/QB][/QUOTE]
Maybe it should be asked, What elements make a top quality HDD oil?
And are these elements subjective or specific? How many MPG does the oil give over "Normal" oils and over "oil in its class" -i.e. apples v. apples or fruit v. vegies; and are the costs justified?

I would first try to establish, since I'm no Tech guy, what oil gives me the most bang for my buck. How clean does it keep my engine, etc. If it pays me, compared to the other oils on the market, then I am interested.

I measure in Payback: How long compared to other oil, does this oil> last, protect, save energy...
In this payback; what ie the Cost of using Vs. not using. A quality motor oil will PAY you -IMO- to use it, as opposed to most other oils on the market. If the oil cost me 12.00 a gallon, and saves me an additional 20.00 or 40.00 or 60.00 in other expenses during its use, in my mind I deduct the 12.00 from the other expenses, and figures I got a lot of VALUE for my 12.00 investment. Cars are not generally investments unless you are a business, and they are still expenses... big ones. BUT, to a large degree, all maintenance is an investment to keep the floating bucket of metal rolling until it totally dies.

Based on industry standard tests, does it outperform the standard, i.e. in reduced wear in the valvetrain (cummings M11)and by how much reduction? Or the piston ring and berings (mack-T9)? Or any other standard test, overall does it do better or on par and is the cost worth while?
Now if the test calls for 25ppm and it shows up with less than 1ppm, and all the other oils are 20-25 ppm, would you care if the oil cost $ 4.00 a quart v. $ 2.80 ? if the same oil showed 60-70 % resuced wear in other tests, and a 20-30 % reduction in carbon build-up, and viscosity increase was 20-40% lower than acceptable, and consumption was 50-70% lower than acceptable, would it matter then?
-see some of these numbers are subjective upon you. What is your comfort zone? and how much are you willing to pay for the extra protection, and is it COST effective?

Based on the same engine (apples to apples) does the specific oil (apples to apples) rate better or worse in things like consumption?- here, I have tried dozens of oils for instance, and I had to let my consumption issue determine the type oil for MY application, you may have other issues like high temps, racing or whatever, and not all oils do perform best in all areas. If you need a BULK oil for ALL vehicles and machines, then you will more than likely have 1-2-3 of them with a consumption issue or whatever.

Specifically where does the oil receive their detergent value?
Can the oil protect in areas with newer fuel?
What about Extreme pressure properties?
Do the additives have enough things present to go into extended drains, i.e. de-activators and such?
How well does the oil in a properly running engine, HOLD it's TBN? How Long?

What is the AVERAGE in the industry, that this oil is in use in a vehicle or machine LIKE MINE?
-if for example you can get for 15,000 miles a 12.00 oil, and then add say 30.00 for Tests, that's 42.00, but say another oil cost a total of 28-30.00 for the same miles; all things equal, i.e. wear similar, MPG, etceteras, the choice is simple. I think too many people have not done this.
The fact is, there is NO need to use any SPECIFIC oil to extend the life unless it will be kept a long long long while. There is also no NEED to use any non-mainstream oil (although I sell and use mine, and yes, it's better than most, but users don't NEED it or any one in specific)- Now, extended drains are almost another animal, but I digress....
Now, often times you will have a lot of information, and it is not EQUAL. Like MPG, or consumption or whatever... I just try my best to translate it in a ratio that equates to a MPG number, howbeit however small i.e. 0.000000001216

Have you ever heard that the acid/alkaline balance of the fluids in your body is the most important factor in health?... well "The Textbook of Medical Physiology" by A.C. Guyton says alkaline balance is one of the most important aspects of homeostasis. Engines are like our bodies, the oil fluids baths the internal organs of the engine... anyway I know I have digressed again, but my point is the TBN and it's ability to HOLD and to take a DIVE when things go wrong, while at the same time keeping the engine protected, my be a very big factor. To me it's important, among a lot mor questions I'm sure you guys don't even want to consider.

Bottom line is, WHAT is the meaning of the term BEST? - it's subjective IMHO, and to me the little outline above lists some of them. Maybe someone with a better skill for words can make a better list. :-]
 
quote:

Somethings that turn me off about Long-Life:

Pennzoil does not respond to e-mails.

Product Data Sheets not kept as up-to-date as Delo and Delvac.

Labels on bottle are out-of-date, not showing Cat. ECF-1 and Mack EO-N Premium Plus '03 specifications that it supposedly meets.

Older oil forumulation - Sulfated ash is up at 1.47 or so, whereas Delo and Delvac are both running lower levels now, around 1.3%.

(All of these make it seem as if Pennzoil just simply doesn't care that much about their product, or their customers, unless your run a truck fleet or something...)


Jelly,

If you have any questions concerning Pennzoil Long Life, shoot them to me. Consider me your focus point for anything Shell Lubricants produces.
 
quote:

Originally posted by TooSlick:
In no particular order:

Delvac 1, 5w-40
Amsoil - both the Series 3000 and 15w-40
Schaeffers S7000, 15w-40
Petro Canada, Duron 5w-40/0w-30
Castrol Elixion, 5w-30 - sold in Europe as "BP Vanellus C8 Ultima"
Delo 400, 5w-40
Redline, 15w-40

TS


List them all, youre about 1/2 way there...
The question is, what's the real cost of each of these oils?
 
I have to say delvac1300 in 15w40.
I consider that and chevron delo 15w40 to be the big two because they are the only two readily available in usable quantities (as opposed to 6 or 8 quart bottles of pennzoil on a shelf).
I like the delvac because it has a higher TBN than Delo, and has magnesium, and moly according to you guys. I don't know if delo has Mg or moly, haven't seen the virgin analysis. And delvac is always about $0.50 cheaper than delo
grin.gif


one other thing I noticed on my 7.3L F250,
was running delvac and after replacing all the glowplugs it would fire up instantly. Starting using Delo, and the engine would then turn over a half to a full turn before firing. I decided to run supertech 15w40 CI oil, still running it now, and engine turns over at least one to three times before firing. I'm sure the cold right now plays a big part, as well as the glow plugs have aged a bit. But the real test will be after I change the oil back to delvac next time. If it fires up quick again, I know it has something to do with the oil staying up in the motor or getting the injectors to fire better on startup. I also never got any smoke on cold startup with delvac. With the delo and the supertech I get a little puff.

[ January 09, 2004, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: 1 FMF ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by toyvwbenz:
Delvac 1300 has better cold flow properties than Delo, LL, and Rotella T.

Chevron doesn't list cold pumping specs on it's Delo data sheet, but it's about dead even, if not a little better than Delvac 1300. Pour point on the Delo is -39 to the Delvac's -33, but that doesn't mean much.

Long-Life is close, but both Delvac and Delo are ahead of it.

Rotella-T isn't even close to these three...
 
quote:

Originally posted by Jelly:
Chevron doesn't list cold pumping specs on it's Delo data sheet, but it's about dead even, if not a little better than Delvac 1300. Pour point on the Delo is -39 to the Delvac's -33, but that doesn't mean much.

Sorry Jelly, you are mistaken. Delvac 1300 15W-40 meets the SAE 10W cold pumping requirements. Several 15W-40 CCS viscosities listed below.

Delvac 1300--6000 Cp @ -20C
Delo 400-----6400 Cp @ -20C
Pennz L.L.----6400 Cp @ -20C
Valv P.B.-----6600 Cp @ -20C
Rotella T-----7000 Cp @ -20C

Not a huge difference, but a difference non the less. You are correct, PP's don't mean much.
 
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