HDEO Rating and use in gas engine

[jdw1222]

I just noticed that a lot of the HDEO (5w-40 and 15w-40) oil that I have is CK-4 but no longer SN. Is this still ok to use in a gas engine (if out or warranty) or is there a big change to these oils compared the older formulations that were SN rated?

Mostly use in my outboards and Waverunners. Been running Rotella T6 for a while now, but just noticed that some of the newer bottles I have on my shelf aren't dual rated anymore. (i have one Delvac and a few Rotella)

I see that Delo is still SN rated so will buy that going forward.

 

[Jetronic]

They can't be dual rated anymore unless they stick to the SP requirements, whereas they used to be excepted.

That means Delo SN likely isn't SN either

 

[Astro14]

For an outboard or wave runner, I’m sure it’s fine.

The issue is the inability of many HDEO to be in compliance with the newest standards. LSPI, catalytic converters contamination, etc.

None of which applies to your use.

 

[kschachn]

Many/some Delo varieties still appear on the API EOLCS Directory with an SN PLUS license.

 

[jeepman3071]

I wouldn't hesitate to use a HDEO in an outboard or wave runner.

 

[jdw1222]

Sounds good, Will continue to use up what I have left

 

[Rygrego]

I just noticed that a lot of the HDEO (5w-40 and 15w-40) oil that I have is CK-4 but no longer SN. Is this still ok to use in a gas engine (if out or warranty) or is there a big change to these oils compared the older formulations that were SN rated?

Mostly use in my outboards and Waverunners. Been running Rotella T6 for a while now, but just noticed that some of the newer bottles I have on my shelf aren't dual rated anymore. (i have one Delvac and a few Rotella)

I see that Delo is still SN rated so will buy that going forward.

The only time any of this oil is a problem with catalytic converters is if you are burning a ton of oil, that is the only concern. Otherwise use whatever you want.

 

[Capt]

I Ran a Mercury EFI 60 4 stroke outboard on Delo Sde 15w-40 for around 50 Hours (several continuous runs at full throttle) and no problems so far other than some fuel dilution as expected on most outboards Noted from analysis. I would change oil after 50 hours and leave filter for 100 Hours.

 

[blufeb95]

That means Delo SN likely isn't SN either

For the most part Delo SN/SN+ dual rated oils actually do meet the requirement, when Chevron reformulated for CK-4 they did limit most of their oils to 800ppm phos max, the weird thing is they did that but last year they released 15W40 XSP and that does have over 1000ppm phos in it yet claims the dual rating.

 

[Spike555]

CK-4 is reduced ash content for for after treatment systems on modern diesels, if it is safe for the particulate filter on a diesel, I'd say it's fine for a gasoline emissions system too.

I am a fleet manager, I use nothing but 15w-40 in all of my fleet, which consists of mostly gas engines.
Using the HDEO allows me to go with extended drain intervals with zero issues.

 

[MSCH]

CK-4 is reduced ash content for for after treatment systems on modern diesels, if it is safe for the particulate filter on a diesel, I'd say it's fine for a gasoline emissions system too.

I am a fleet manager, I use nothing but 15w-40 in all of my fleet, which consists of mostly gas engines.
Using the HDEO allows me to go with extended drain intervals with zero issues.

I visited a municipal fleet that used 15w40 in all the holes... diffs, gas, diesel, hydraulic systems etc.... was explained to me it was too much trouble to supply a bunch of different lubes to the the shop as well as keeping everybody one board what fluid went in what and the end result was about the same as when they used a bunch of different lubricants and with the added benefit of nobody mixing anything up anymore .

 

[The motor guy]

CK-4 is reduced ash content for for after treatment systems on modern diesels, if it is safe for the particulate filter on a diesel, I'd say it's fine for a gasoline emissions system too.

I am a fleet manager, I use nothing but 15w-40 in all of my fleet, which consists of mostly gas engines.
Using the HDEO allows me to go with extended drain intervals with zero issues.

No boron. Usually they substitute moly or boron for the lack of zddp. Those additives look pretty sad compared to older api ratings. Too bad it doesn't show on the report what they're adding to continue to keep wear looking good

 

[Deleted member 89374]

While the API SN rating is a gasoline engine specification and CK-4 is a diesel engine specification, it's not uncommon for oils to have both ratings. However, just because an oil doesn't have the SN rating doesn't mean it's not suitable for use in a gas engine. CK-4 oils are formulated with more robust additives to handle the increased stress and heat of diesel engines, but these additives can also benefit gasoline engines. In fact, many diesel oils like Rotella T6 are popular choices for high-performance gas engines because of their superior wear protection and heat resistance.

The issue is the inability of many HDEO to be in compliance with the newest standards. LSPI, catalytic converters contamination, etc.

^^^
This.

Today's HDEOs are either dual rated, with the PCMO rating being API SN, or they lack a gasoline rating entirely. Either way, @Astro14 is on point, because additive manufacturers and blenders stopped optimizing these oils for gasoline engines beyond the API SN specifications and requirements.

 

[userfriendly]

While the API SN rating is a gasoline engine specification and CK-4 is a diesel engine specification, it's not uncommon for oils to have both ratings. However, just because an oil doesn't have the SN rating doesn't mean it's not suitable for use in a gas engine. CK-4 oils are formulated with more robust additives to handle the increased stress and heat of diesel engines, but these additives can also benefit gasoline engines. In fact, many diesel oils like Rotella T6 are popular choices for high-performance gas engines because of their superior wear protection and heat resistance.


^^^
This.

Today's HDEOs are either dual rated, with the PCMO rating being API SN, or they lack a gasoline rating entirely. Either way, @Astro14 is on point, because additive manufacturers and blenders stopped optimizing these oils for gasoline engines beyond the API SN specifications and requirements.

We have not seen a CK-4/SP yet, but how different than Delo's CK-4/SN+ additive package could it be?
I think the solution to LSPI is keeping the oil out of the combustion chamber, which may require a higher viscosity than recommended
for fuel economy purposes.
As soon as I use up my 2 free oil changes and my 5w30 Dexos 1 G3 stash, I'll try Delo 400 5W40 in a 2022 3.6L Acadia.
It just turned a year old with 14,000 kms. (8,700 miles)

 

[blufeb95]

Valvoline Premium Blue One Solution is SP.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

I think the solution to LSPI is keeping the oil out of the combustion chamber, which may require a higher viscosity than recommended
for fuel economy purposes.

Carbon deposits store an unbelievable amount of heat. If you can keep the combustions chamber free of carbon deposits, LSPI is unlikely to take place.

That's why many manufacturers prefer to run engines rich, especially T-GDI engines. Consequently, LSPI is mostly a problem on lean burning T-GDI engines, configured as such to boost the manufacturer's CAFE numbers.

This is where lubricants like those manufactured by @High Performance Lubricants come into play. All of their oils (PCMO and HDMO) have excellent solvency due to a carefully curated combination of very expensive esters and alkylated naphthalene, coupled with a beefed-up detergent package that attaches to the crud in the engine and takes it to the oil filter to be contained.

HPL's lubricants are formulated to clean the engine, keep it clean, and prevent LSPI events, beyond anything else available on the market today.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I never understood this infatuation with using HEDO in gassers. Diesel engines operate at much lower rpms, and the turbos don't run as hot as a gasser. Sulphur levels are at 10 ppm. The only big differences revolves around soot loading and the amount of torque they produce.

 

[The motor guy]

I never understood this infatuation with using HEDO in gassers. Diesel engines operate at much lower rpms, and the turbos don't run as hot as a gasser. Sulphur levels are at 10 ppm. The only big differences revolves around soot loading and the amount of torque they produce.

It's kind of the same rpm wise. That bigger part has to make one full revolution, pistons go up and down farther etc.

 

[02zx9r rev2]

I never understood this infatuation with using HEDO in gassers.

I think some people want to just use one oil for everything if they can

 

[Elkins45]

I bought a five gallon pail of Delvac 1300 15w-40 to use in my tractor and mowers. The pail only lists a bunch of diesel approvals, but this is what the Mobil website says:

Accordingly, this oil also meets or exceeds the requirements of API CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4 and CH-4 service categories, as well as key OEM requirements. Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 engine oil is universal, meaning it may also be used in gasoline engines requiring the API SN specification.​