Best Engine Cleaning Additive?

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
So Skyship you still cannot address the nonsolvent engine flushes and nonsolvent engine cleaners like Auto-RX. If the information is not in the data base there is no answer?

Let me put this another way. Not all engine flushes and drive around engine cleaners contain solvents. Some are nonsolvent. Amsoil has a nonsolvent engine flush. You have probably heard of Amsoil. Lubegard has a nonsolvent engine flush. Auto-RX is a drive around engine cleaner that does not have solvents.

Maybe Skyship you can read up on these and then post your thoughts about them.


He hasn't found anything about auto RX to copy and paste,give it time.
I like the idea of using an ester type product for cleaning.
I think we have a locally made product called XM-15. It's 7 different base oils. It sounds alot like auto-RX. I bought some for my forklift. It had a seal leak at one of the rear piston shafts. It actually worked. Saved me 1000 bucks having Kramer tractor come out to fix it. They actually told me to try it.
Imagine that. A dealer suggesting an additive to fix something. And it wasn't in my owners manual either.
Perhaps in practice there is more to owning and servicing equipment than the owners manual can cover.
And maybe in real life these snake oil additives work. That snake oil saved me a grand. 2 years later and still no leak. Interesting.
Maybe out here in the real world practice teaches more than a book or article in a lubrication magazine can since my owners manual didn't touch on seal leaks. But the guys who fix them recommended a snake oil that fixed it.
Darned snake oil saving me money.

 

[Mystic]

I will say one thing in Auto-RXs favor-it seemed to stop a seal leak on a car I used to own. After I did the Auto-RX cleaning the seal leak stopped and never came back the rest of the time I owned the car. Since that time I have moved away from Auto-RX, but I still have two bottles of the stuff. I would still recommend Auto-RX for being able to possibley stop a seal leak. Worth a try at least.

Someday I will have to use those bottles. What is the shelf life for Auto-RX?

 

[Mystic]

I am beginning to think that maybe Skyship is an engineer. I have known a few engineers who had incredible knowledge in their area of training and experience but anything outside of that was a total mystery to them.

For Skyship all engine cleaners and engine flushes are terrible solvents that will potentially ruin an engine, the only way to clean an engine is to remove some parts and physically clean it, and motor oil (apparently preferrably synthetic) is the only thing you put in an engine.

Nonsolvent engine flushes and engine cleaners are not in the data base and therefore cannot even be discussed, even if somebody mentions that such things exist. Anything outside of training and experience does not exist and cannot be discussed.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I am beginning to think that maybe Skyship is an engineer. I have known a few engineers who had incredible knowledge in their area of training and experience but anything outside of that was a total mystery to them.

For Skyship all engine cleaners and engine flushes are terrible solvents that will potentially ruin an engine, the only way to clean an engine is to remove some parts and physically clean it, and motor oil (apparently preferrably synthetic) is the only thing you put in an engine.

Nonsolvent engine flushes and engine cleaners are not in the data base and therefore cannot even be discussed, even if somebody mentions that such things exist. Anything outside of training and experience does not exist and cannot be discussed.


Not true as the engine folks have approved a few flush additives and even a very rare anti wear oil additive, but if you don't use an approved flush machine or additive then you are just gambling. The cheapest way to clean an engine is the way described in the maintenance manual, as all it costs is a sump and valve cover seal or gasket, a few old toothbrushes and a pile of rags. Some carb cleaner might be needed for some situations, but read the instruction on the can first as some seals don't like it.
Google has a lot of cases of leaking or damaged engines, but there are only a few relating to idle only flush use or machine flushes, most are for the drive around snake oils.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I will say one thing in Auto-RXs favor-it seemed to stop a seal leak on a car I used to own. After I did the Auto-RX cleaning the seal leak stopped and never came back the rest of the time I owned the car. Since that time I have moved away from Auto-RX, but I still have two bottles of the stuff. I would still recommend Auto-RX for being able to possibley stop a seal leak. Worth a try at least.

Someday I will have to use those bottles. What is the shelf life for Auto-RX?

Not sure but save it for the day you get another inevitable seal leak. If you can replicate the success be sure to post that!

 

[LeakySeals]

This is the additive forum. If you don't like additives, what are you doing in here?

 

[skyship]

There are lots of additives in use in my oil, my coolant, gearbox and even brake fluid. I love all the approved ones included in my engines fluids by the major oil company that spent years over their chemical design and testing.
Very occasionally a new snake oil surfaces that might just be worth looking at, but I've looked and the only two that showed any promise were both local LM products, one has a weird side effect when used as a pre OCI idle only flush of reducing corrosion (I heard about it from the oil lab, but confirmed it from my own UOA results for Fe) and is used by some classic car folks partly for that reason. The other product is Ceretec but after talking to some experts it seems to swap bottom end for top end wear and only works if you add it every oil change. Ceretec is also expensive, but I might be tempted into a UOA based experiment one day if I can confirm the Moly in it is low enough not to cause an interaction with the detergents function. Luckily one of the chaps in the Volvo forum is going to do a trial over 3 OCI's to see if the UOA results improve for a Synthoil rather than a dino.

 

[Mystic]

Skyship, do you really have such a good relationship with the 'oil lab?' In the real world I bet the chemists at Exxon/Mobil and other companies have nondisclosure agreements and cannot reveal information about motor oils they develop unless the company allows it.

And what experts did you talk with about Ceretec? There are people here at bitgo who would like to have a conversation with these people.

And exactly why do you dislike moly so much? A lot of oil companies put moly in the correct chemical form into their motor oils. Did you have a bad experience with a low quality moly oil additive? I doubt very seriously that the moly in Pennzoil will have a bad reaction with the detergent additives.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Skyship, do you really have such a good relationship with the 'oil lab?' In the real world I bet the chemists at Exxon/Mobil and other companies have nondisclosure agreements and cannot reveal information about motor oils they develop unless the company allows it.

And what experts did you talk with about Ceretec? There are people here at bitgo who would like to have a conversation with these people.

And exactly why do you dislike moly so much? A lot of oil companies put moly in the correct chemical form into their motor oils. Did you have a bad experience with a low quality moly oil additive? I doubt very seriously that the moly in Pennzoil will have a bad reaction with the detergent additives.


I visit the main ZF fluid analysis lab several times a month and they never talk about what they are doing in terms of testing hydraulic fluids, but are always interested in engine oil additives. Some of them worked for a VW oil lab before and they have some very good files of UOA results related to VW TDI's which I get to see, in addition they also have results for use of different additives with those engines, so are very good at answering questions.
I have not said anywhere that Moly is a bad additive if included as part of an oils own add pack, but using excessive amounts of extra Moly can cause problems with some full synthetics and there is another thread talking about deposits found in an oil filter after using a can of snake oil containing Moly which you might want to look at.

 

[Mystic]

Sksyship, I know you like to dance around and maybe we are dealing here with a language issue-maybe you are German and English is strictly a second language for you.

But I certainly got the very strong impression from you that according to your information moly was not going to be used in new, high tech motor oils. And I pointed out TO YOU, if you would read my posts, that there is probably a difference in moly in a typical oil supplement and the moly used by Pennzoil and other companies in their motor oils. Maybe if you would read people's posts and replies you would be less likely to miss reading things like that.

And frankly you have made some fantastic claims here. One claim you made was that NASA was testing or using an oil with gold dust used as an additive. Can you supply us with a link? If you know about this you should be able to help us locate the information on the internet.

You also said that a man was testing one additive at a time for Castrol using a 30 weight oil that had no additives except for the one additive being tested. I find this very difficult to believe but maybe you could supply us with information or a link to demonstrate that such testing is actually done. It is my own personal opinion that additives are tested as a group and probably in the oil, synthetic or conventional, they will actually be used in. I think the chemists already have a good idea what each additive will do. They need to find out how those additives will perform as a group in the oil they will be used in.

If your goal is to stop all of us from using oil supplements and engine cleaners than you are going to have to prove that oil supplements and engine cleaners are bad with some evidence and documentation. Anybody can come here and make various claims about something. I could claim in a post (or multiple posts) that STP Oil Treatment is the greatest thing for an engine since motor oil itself but without evidence that is merely a claim.

If you really have all of the connections to oil labs and motor oil development like you say you have you need to stop dancing around and answer a few questions. If you could answer questions your credibility would be improved here greatly. Yes you can say there are things you cannot reveal but you have already made a lot of statements so if you have a nondisclosure agreement with some lab or labs you are not doing a very good job of nondisclosure. You might be able to answer some questions in at least a more general way without releasing important details.

To be honest Skyship you lost credibility with me when you could not supply information about the runaway turbocar, going back and forth when it came to whether idle only engine flushes were acceptable or not, the gold dust additive story, and the incredible story of the guy testing one additive at a time in a 30 weight oil with no additives except the one being tested. And anybody can be whatever they want to be on the internet but you went from being an investigator for insurance and warranty claims to an engineer to being present as an observor when new transmission fluids are being tested.

I am NOT going to claim that I am a chemist for Exxon/Mobil or Valvoline or whoever. But I know enough in a general way about how motor oils are developed so that some of your claims just do not make any sense to me. For example I know a few details about how Valvoline MaxLife Motor Oil was developed. I know a little bit about the woman chemist who was one of the people who helped develop that motor oil. I even knew her name a while back but I can't remember it now. There are people at this website with more information than you might think. Claims about a gold dust motor oil additive and motor oil being developed one additive at a time in 30 weight motor oil cause some people here to have serious issues with what you are saying. If there is some sort of language issue here I am sorry but I don't know German.

 

[Quest]

LOL! what next? Pixie-dust oil additives?~!

I've been reading on-n-off on some of these postings, and it just struck me as being arrogant, w/o any factual evidence to back things up.

Again, I'm back on the subject that this board is not what it used to be anymore: with most knowledgeable folks (some with oil-related backgrounds) have gone and left, and now backfilled with arrogance and blow-hards, with lots of out-of-this-world claims, koolaid drinkers and competitive product bashings and such.

And that's why I'm posting less and less (only focusing on long time good folks and trying to help out).

nuf said. Back to lurking mode.

Q.

 

[Mystic]

A more fundamental question for you Skyship is what are you hoping to achieve here? You seem to want everybody to stop using oil supplements and at least drive around engine cleaners. It should be obvious that people here will keep using whatever their favorite oil supplement or engine cleaner is regardless what you say. You will have to produce some very convincing evidence that all of these oil supplements and engine cleaners are useless.

Like people have already said-show us all of the ruined engines.

 

[Mystic]

Quest we have lost a lot of good people. We have many more members here (quantity) and I think less quality. I can think of a few people badly missed here today like Johhny, with his Pennzoil background, and Bob, who conducted actual experiments with various oil supplements.

And of course we cannot check out the credentials of anybody here. Somebody can claim whatever they are going to claim-that they are an engineer, a chemist, a scientist, that they are involved in engine development or whatever. Just yesterday I was at an aircraft museum in Colorado Springs where they are rebuilding World War II fighter aircraft to flying condition. I met some truly interesting people there who are very talented and who do not make wild claims about who they are-but they are truly amazing people. When you see the condition of these aircraft after they have been in a jungle for 70+ years and what it takes to rebuild these aircraft to flying condition you realize the skill level of these people. But none of them seem to walk around and boast about what they know (and they know a lot). They just quietly go about their jobs in hangers and maintenance buildings and remain largely unknown to most of the general public.

The people who really know their stuff seem to be largely like this-just going about their jobs and not boasting about all of their connections to labs and how brillant they are. And they don't have to dance around the subject matter because they KNOW the subject matter.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Mystic


And they don't have to dance around the subject matter because they KNOW the subject matter.


Which means they can also back what they claim. Data, not anecdotes. Anecdotes have become the norm.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Auto-RX, Rislone, Marvel Mysteryere Oil, Seafoam ,plain oil changed alot, Synthetic Oil changed alot?s. Any others?

A load of Redline oil for it's high ester content.

Schaeffer's Neutra 131.


I'd start with taking detailed pics first then a 5000 mile run with red line. The esters in tat oil will do no harm and then once tithe interval is up,decide what symptoms you are still trying to cure. If there is then make a decision from there. Maybe an mmo run next may benefit but if the first run is even semi productive then maybe try a couple runs with pp or PYB on shorter intervals. If that's isn't fast enough there are many good products out there.

 

[ueberooo]

I simply use a little tiny bit of Marvel's Mystery oil (MMO) and think it kreens my engine just fine. For me, no need at all for anything more sophisticated,

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: ueberooo
I simply use a little tiny bit of Marvel's Mystery oil (MMO) and think it kreens my engine just fine. For me, no need at all for anything more sophisticated,


Only Kano Labs products can Kreen an engine!!

 

[Voltmaster]

Change your oil more frequently and use engine flush from time to time ,

when I got my Corolla it definitely had seen better days , oil would turn back after 600 miles. Now at 2k still looks goldish.


I like redline , liqou moly , and amsoil for the flush. All will do a fine job.

 

[expat]

I have often wondered, what is so bad about adding solvents or solvent assisted cleaners (such as MMO) SHORT TERM to motor oil?

I have yet to see a bad UOA where solvent additives have been used judiciously.

To take things to extremes, Two Stroke engines have their lubrication oil diluted drastically with a solvent....Gasoline!

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: expat
I have often wondered, what is so bad about adding solvents or solvent assisted cleaners (such as MMO) SHORT TERM to motor oil?

I have yet to see a bad UOA where solvent additives have been used judiciously.

To take things to extremes, Two Stroke engines have their lubrication oil diluted drastically with a solvent....Gasoline!


And yet, no one adds gasoline to their four stroke oil.