Bees dying by the millions

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
^Good points. We might be poisoning ourselves, but the planet will be just fine without us, as it was for over four billion years prior. We sweat the extinction of every species we THINK is on the brink, yet, in excess of 99% of all species that have existed on this planet are extinct.

What a pompous and arrogant species are we.


The more arrogant position is that we can just do whatever we want to, and there will be no consequences.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
We might be poisoning ourselves, but the planet will be just fine without us

You know this is missing the point, right?

The whole point of "saving the planet" is to ensure the survival of the human race as far into the future as possible. It's not about whether the planet continues to exist; it's about whether the planet continues to be hospitable to humans. Likewise, the reason extinctions are worth worrying about is that they could screw up ecosystems that WE depend on.

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
^Good points. We might be poisoning ourselves, but the planet will be just fine without us, as it was for over four billion years prior. We sweat the extinction of every species we THINK is on the brink, yet, in excess of 99% of all species that have existed on this planet are extinct.

What a pompous and arrogant species are we.


The more arrogant position is that we can just do whatever we want to, and there will be no consequences.


They are both arrogant positions so I agree with you.

 

[DBMaster]

The gist of my post was that the number of people concerned about these things who are ACTUALLY CHANGING THEIR HABITS to combat them is very small. With the rise of the "middle class" worldwide resources will end up being strained, though, we think that such resources are unlimited as evidenced by behaviors I see multiple times every day.

The conveyance for where we are headed is a hand basket.

 

[spasm3]

I think the planet is better than it has been in 100 years. Cars are very clean running, most oil is reclaimed, not poured on dirt roads. Most homes are not heated by coal and wood. Pesticides are much much less toxic, I.E chlordane, DDT , even diazinon is not in public use. In fact bed bugs and mosquitoes are on the rise since DDT has not been used in 50 years or so. Lead is not in most fuels, paints etc. Oil based paints are not in public use. Few people burn their own trash anymore. Overall the environment is better than it has been in 100 years.

 

[CourierDriver]

Hey,,, we did not cover the sewage thing yet, lol, now there's and endless source of yuck.............

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
The gist of my post was that the number of people concerned about these things who are ACTUALLY CHANGING THEIR HABITS to combat them is very small. With the rise of the "middle class" worldwide resources will end up being strained, though, we think that such resources are unlimited as evidenced by behaviors I see multiple times every day.

The conveyance for where we are headed is a hand basket.

I guess I can't speak for you, but I don't like the idea of looking my grandchildren in the face and saying "you guys are probably screwed anyway so I saw no reason to fight and sacrifice for you."

 

[Spazdog]

All my "no Monsanto/no GMO/no inoculations for children...etc..." friends are blaming the demise of the European Honey Bee in North America on Monsanto Roundup.

Some midwestern state allegedly seized all the Roundup resistant bees and burned all the bees, queens, combs, and honey.

I guess Monsanto wants to be the only player in the game

 

[LeakySeals]

Its the heat. We've lost the protective layer of smog blocking the sun, keeping temps down! Save the bees, go cat-less!

 

[GreeCguy]

Keep in mind, solent green is made from people.

 

[DBMaster]

I think I may have not expressed myself that clearly. I do, in fact, as much as I can to limit my own "footprint." And, I educate my children along the same lines. When I look around me and see that people think it's too much trouble to even pick up trash in their own neighborhoods. keep their cigarette butts off the ground, etc., etc. it only motivates me to do even better.

While I do not disagree that our own levels of pollution may be declining, thanks in part to all that "anti-business regulation" that some rail about, there are no such efforts going on in the developing world, or far less. Have you seen photos of Beijing? Have you seen the deforestation in Brazil?

As I said earlier, the planet will survive this assault. I just hope the rest of the world wises up before further damage is done. If something like curbside recycling (mainly to extend the lives of our existing landfills) is too much headache for half the people in my neighborhood what REAL sacrifices will they be willing to make in the future?

 

[Mamala Bay]

Ever heard of a Monsanto GM FRANKEN BEE. A genetic modified honeybee that is resistant to the GMO application.

If so Monsanto wants the honeybee killed off and to be replaced with their modified bees, a stronger new improved specie. If rumor says true, these modified bees with only pollinate Monsanto crops.

Truely a vomitting scenario.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
It's the cell phones that's killing them. The microwaves from the cell towers interfere with the bees's magnetic heading and and as a result, they lose track of where they're at in relation to the hive.
Bees use the magnetic field of the Earth's North and South poles for navigation.


It sounds possible, but if this is so obvious they would have easily been able to test this theory: shut it off / on for a while to see if it affect their health, or setup new tower that is off the grid to see if it gets better or worse.

AT&T used the same test to see if the local opposition of cell towers to prove that they are placebo effects. Local oppositions didn't know about the 1 week shut off and claims their headache history was the same.

The opposition shut up almost instantly.

 

[The_Eric]

Honey bees may be imported, but to support our population (currently), they are needed. Yes, there may be other native pollinators BUT they don't pollinate as broad of a range of plants. We need their numbers and their willingness to pollinate many different species.

I'm not even sure why there is an argument for the continued use of all these pesticides and herbicides... Taking a look at what they do is pretty scary (think dead bees and MUCH more). One has to ask, why is the US one of the few (or only) developed countries that allows the use of these nasty chemicals and nor require labeling of GMO's???? As many as 40 other countries have BANNED their use and require labeling of GMO food. Even China, CHINA!, a country well known for many egregious environmental and human rights violations has banned foods produced with chemicals we use every day!!!! If that doesn't tell you something then I don't what will....

Why can't we get GMO's labeled here? Why are we continuing to use these chemicals, like neonicotinoids on our crops, a chemical that has long lasting effects and kills pollinators? The thing that we need for food! How stupid is that!? I'll tell you why... Money. Big corporations and their money. Spending money to block things/actions that would cost them money. How much is enough? Where do we draw the line?

Sure, one could argue that it's not hurting us, but how do we know? What objective long term studies have we done that support the use of these chems? Many of the chems used on crops or in the processing of food are extremely toxic. Where is the wisdom in that?

 

[PandaBear]

I think the pesticides and herbicides in the US is a lot safer than those used in China or many 3rd world countries (because we can afford it and if you believe in the conspiracy, the big agricultural firms lobby the banning of these cheap pesticides and herbicides so their newer "safer" alternatives are mandated).

It depends on what kind of GMO it is. I have no problem with drought resistant crops that has deeper root and those that are shorter for higher yield (although they are likely not so tasty), but I have huge problem with GMO that generates biotoxin into the grains so they do not have to spray pesticides. When combined with the "organic" label, this kind of biotoxin give consumers the false sense of security that the food has no pesticides (organic only means organic pesticide and herbicides last time I check).

 

[SteveSRT8]

Imagining that Monsanto has no agenda requires a unique form of ignorance. I am a HUGE believer in the future due to technology and its never ending advancement as a bell curve. The pace quickens...

But as The_Eric stated above, even CHINA has started watching these things.

Anyone with any real interest needs to look at who runs the FDA and other food regulatory agencies. They regularly appoint people who worked in the industries being regulated! It's another outrageous example of big money distorting our system of government.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
even CHINA has started watching these things.


China is just doing it as a way to block import or foreign influences / controls.

They have a lot of food regulation nightmares that makes our GMO concerns look like non issues. None of the middle class citizens buy their baby food stuff in China, even foreign brands imported into China with Chinese language labels are not trust worthy due to the possibility of distributors and retailers frauds. A Nestle distributor was busted for selling fake baby formula as genuine Nestle. Anyone who could afford would either mail order them from foreign nations (i.e. Netherlands, New Zealand, Brittan, Japan before the nuclear reactor accident). New Zealand and Hong Kong now have baby formula shortage as a lot of them are purchased off retailers and then go on trucks or airmail into China.

On top of that you have corruption between government media regulator that suppress food safety news and the high ranking officials family ownerships with many tainted brands, you end up with a population that would take any American GMO food over their domestic sources (even if they are organic).

As a result, their market is polarized to extremely low cost for the lower income population and the extremely high cost for the middle class and above. You do not get a bell curve market like most developed nation where people buy good enough quality for what they want to pay.

 

[DBMaster]

I would never hold China up as an example of environmental stewardship. There are reasons other than just cheaper labor for why most low cost manufacturing is done there. It costs money to be a good corporate citizen, be a good steward of the environment, and provide a low hazard workplace for employees.

Things may be different twenty years from now, but for the moment it's financial domination at all costs. They might turn their noses up at GM crops, but what do they do instead to obtain the yields necessary to feed such a population? Perhaps substances that have more blatant hazards that we in the U.S. abandoned decades ago?

 

[Mystic]

What they think is killing the bees is some sort of pesticide that the EPA will do nothing about, even though traces have been found in dead bees. But the EPA will try to close down the coal industry in the USA.

Maybe for the survival of the human race the EPA needs to be more interested in what is killing the bees and less concerned with shutting down the coal industry.

 

[DBMaster]

^Hmm. In other words they ought to be more concerned about what is killing bees and less concerned about what is killing humans. I agree that I have seen my share of humans that are worth less than bees. ROFL!