back from getting Toyota serviced - rant time

[Vizzy]

The stories here are almost all outrageous and disgraceful to boot!

There is one big change that is coming though. Most folks have precious little extra change to sheepishly accept all those extra up sells today. I think you're going to see a LOT more confrontations in the service department between irate customers and desperate service writers and techs...It's only going to get uglier from here.

 

[Mr Nice]

Quote:
I saw this happen many times at different places I worked at. Service writers were forced to up sell or find the door, it trickles down to the techs.


Yep, thats why dealerships are always hiring service writers and mechanics.
Where do these dealership employees get their so called training ?

I'm guessing the Bernie Madoff School of Business.

 

[lenjack]

Your rant is with your dealer, not with Toyota. My Toyota dealer also moved into a new and much larger facility. There has been absolutely no attempt to upsell anything. As far as Toyotas not selling, my dealer sold 13 cars on Monday.

 

[Vizzy]

Originally Posted By: lenjack
Your rant is with your dealer, not with Toyota. My Toyota dealer also moved into a new and much larger facility. There has been absolutely no attempt to upsell anything. As far as Toyotas not selling, my dealer sold 13 cars on Monday.


Don't forget that the manufacturers usually demand that the franchises adhere to a certain number of building standards that are set by the manufacturer, such as building size amenities, ect....these upgrades cost huge sums of money to do but if the dealer will not comply they may lose assistance from the mfr or even their franchise!

Actually sales numbers have dipped severely, overall.

I figure that there are always a few uninformed folks that don't have a clue..I just saw the recent Toyota ads (not the mea culpa ones) but the ones that focus on "style" and my guess is that that "metric" hasn't a clue about the latest news on Toyota.

 

[DC84]

During a brief employment at a Honda dealer we had service techs and advisors drilling people for several flushes and services before the cars were out of warranty. If you wanted a 30k on a civic it was over $500 before any upsales. This was the only job that Ive ever been fired from since I couldn't live with lying to customers. As bad as it made me feel it made me a much better person in the long run.

 

[bigmike]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
no offense, what is the problem here? One part of a service writers job is to inform the customer about the maintenance and overall well being of their vehicle. A writer who does not come out and inform customers of issues or recommend maintenance is not doing his or her job. Throttle bodies get dirty all the time, part of the normal operation of the vehicle. A clean throttle body is in many cases important to the operation of an engine. Took at power steering fluid after 42k vs new fluid and tell me there is no difference. If you write a letter to the facility it will be disregarded because the writer is doing his job. Believe it or not, car dealerships are not there simply to fix your warranty concerns. Service should be able to support the dealership.


+1

I'd be somewhat upset if my service guy didn't come out and tell me his and the mechanic's recommendations. It's my job to know the vehicle well enough to make the decision to go ahead. It may be something that I'd rather do myself and I hadn't noticed it until they said something. If it were gross exaggeration, I'd just ask for the service manager and speak to him about it. It may also be something you'd check into after you left (after all, they have your car at the time of recommending another service).

 

[demarpaint]

I agree it is the service writers job to instruct mechanics to check cars and suggest services. OTOH, any dealer I ever did business with or worked for tried jamming the services down the customers throat. Scare tactics, threats to void warranty claims if certain services weren't done by the dealership, and some other tactics were employeed.

I found it was actually pretty easy to shut down the hard sell. Knowing your car, having a log book of what you've done, or had done. Knowing what the OM states for service at the mileage you bring your car in is a good idea too. Then telling them you're in the business and know all the tricks is the golden bullet. I've found that line to be very effective as well. If you do get into a hassle before the work is started just be sure you either watch, or bring the car somewhere else. I've worked with techs that weren't very nice to customers cars if they got hassled.

What really stinks is there are some really good mechanics that are forced into pushing services, and hitting quotas. These guys have families to feed and jobs are tight these days.

 

[sceva]

I need to make something very clear about the observations I made in my original post.

The dealer / service writer did NOT try to jam the service down my throat and when I declined it was simply OK we will be finished shortly.

My point is and always has been that once they moved to the new facility there was a clear and obvious increase in the number of extra recommended services that the tech would "find" and the that the writer was requesting an OK on.
In the past I would normally take any suggestions given seriously and while I would at times take care of the suggested service myself I would quite often give the OK.
Now, due to the observation I have made I am not as quick to just say OK and instead will check it out myself and either take care of it or I will have it done on my next visit. Also, in the past it was very easy to talk to the tech/mechanic (it was often suggested by the Writer and the mechanic would show you just what they were talking about) Now this does not appear to be the case however I did not ask so it may be that if I had I could have walked over to the other building and checked myself.

I would like to ask one question of the mechanics reading this. The PS fluid I understand as it is very easy to visually check the fluid and its color etc. What about the Injectors / Throttle body? What would they be looking at during a basic oil change that they would observe that the Throttle body was dirty and needed a service? The outside of the body? Again, there was no symptoms or problems and nothing was mentioned about any Codes or being based on time & mileage - only that it was dirty.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: sceva
Today, it was my turn. 2008 Corolla with 42K on it and absolutely no percieved problems or issues and no decrease in fuel economy except for weather related. Accelerates and runs great - no code lights showing. Went in for an oil change using my supplied Pennzoil Platinum as usual and it wasn't long before the service writer was back suggesting a Throttle body service at $65.00 and a power steering service at (I think) about $80.00. Reasoning: They said it looked dirty so the tech checked Immediate service required. I declined.


Have you looked at the power steering fluid yet? It is very unusual that your car would need the throttle and power steering fluid serviced, especially for a newer car. Neither service is part of any maintenance schedule I follow, even for vehicles that are much older than yours. I've never even seen those items on a maintenance schedule.

 

[AdRock]

Originally Posted By: sceva


I would like to ask one question of the mechanics reading this. The PS fluid I understand as it is very easy to visually check the fluid and its color etc. What about the Injectors / Throttle body? What would they be looking at during a basic oil change that they would observe that the Throttle body was dirty and needed a service? The outside of the body? Again, there was no symptoms or problems and nothing was mentioned about any Codes or being based on time & mileage - only that it was dirty.


The injector service is recommended off of the mileage. There's really no way to check them without pulling them out and looking at the spray pattern if there are no other symptoms.

For the throttle body it's easy to pull the intake tube off, open up the butterfly, and look inside. That's what I always did.

Whenever I pulled a car in I always did certain checks.

Once on the lift:
Take a look at the front & rear pads.
Look for any obvious leaks.
Check the air filter
Check the throttle body or carb for gunk.
Check for any old cracking hoses
Pull one plug and see what shape it's in
Check PS fluid color/level
Check AT fluid color/level
Check coolant color/level
Check oil color/level, also check for a reminder sticker on the window to see how long since the last oil change.
Check cap, rotor, wires. If the vehicle has them
Check the system to see any past repairs or maintenence done to the vehicle and when it was done.

That's just a quick list that I would always check when I brought a car in no matter what it was in for. I'm sure I left one or two things out of that list though.

 

[sceva]

Originally Posted By: rpn453
Have you looked at the power steering fluid yet? It is very unusual that your car would need the throttle and power steering fluid serviced, especially for a newer car. Neither service is part of any maintenance schedule I follow, even for vehicles that are much older than yours. I've never even seen those items on a maintenance schedule.


See answer below as to PS fluid condition.

 

[sceva]

Originally Posted By: AdRock

The injector service is recommended off of the mileage. There's really no way to check them without pulling them out and looking at the spray pattern if there are no other symptoms.

For the throttle body it's easy to pull the intake tube off, open up the butterfly, and look inside. That's what I always did.

Whenever I pulled a car in I always did certain checks.

Once on the lift:
Take a look at the front & rear pads.
Look for any obvious leaks.
Check the air filter
Check the throttle body or carb for gunk.
Check for any old cracking hoses
Pull one plug and see what shape it's in
Check PS fluid color/level
Check AT fluid color/level
Check coolant color/level
Check oil color/level, also check for a reminder sticker on the window to see how long since the last oil change.
Check cap, rotor, wires. If the vehicle has them
Check the system to see any past repairs or maintenence done to the vehicle and when it was done.

That's just a quick list that I would always check when I brought a car in no matter what it was in for. I'm sure I left one or two things out of that list though.


Thanks Adrock - that may explain things, it appears that the throttle body can be visualed in a normal inspection.

The recommendation was Throttle Body service and Power Steering service.

What bothers me is the checklist I found in the car as I left. It has Fuel Injection Service checked for "Requires Immediate Attention" which sounds dire but may just mean that the tech visually saw that it was getting dirty.

As for the PS fluid : It appears to have darkened a little (Toyota uses an amber PS fluid and mine was a medium amber color) and has a strong ATF odor. I am planning in checking a new or very low mileage car to see how much if any darker.

What I think I will do is stop in or call and see if I can speak to the tech. and find out what is involved in a Throttle Body clean at $60.00 and a Power Steering service at $79.00. If the Throttle Body includes running running a cleaner through the injectors as well as the Throttle Body (I believe they use a kit that includes several cleaners) that may not be to bad for a little PM but on the other hand it's running great so I hate to mess with it.
As for the PS service. I need to see if that is a full flush or just a suck and fill. If it's a suck and fill I can easily do that myself ( the manual calls for Dextron II or III for when adding fluid) as I have a large syringe with a tube end that works well. I realize that that only gets part of the fluid out but it freshens it pretty well.

How much better off would I be with a full flush over a suck and fill?

 

[Vikas]

Not all cars have easy access to the throttle body. Replacing air cleaner element might not be trivial. In that case, I doubt a mechanic is going to go the trouble of taking out the air cleaner element during a routine oil change visit.

- Vikas

 

[bigmike]

Sceva,

With as little miles on it, I'd just do the turkey baster on the PSF. Do it several times and the color will begin to improve. The benefits of a full flush aren't going to outweigh your time or cost. On my vehicles and many of my family member's vehicles, I just draw out about 12-16oz each oil change and replace. Mind you, most of the vehicles have mileage that varies from 20k-110k miles.

 

[Spector]

The problem I have with the techs recommending these services is that many people going to a stealership never read the manual, depend on the service rep to guide them and all they do is guide them to the ATM for more cash to pay the cashier. They should be required to show owners where it says recommended maintenance in the owners manual. People just trust these reps to do the right thing and it is way too rare an occasion when a service rep does the right thing by a customer when it comes to shelling out more money.

 

[bigmike]

Originally Posted By: Spector
The problem I have with the techs recommending these services is that many people going to a stealership never read the manual, depend on the service rep to guide them and all they do is guide them to the ATM for more cash to pay the cashier. They should be required to show owners where it says recommended maintenance in the owners manual. People just trust these reps to do the right thing and it is way too rare an occasion when a service rep does the right thing by a customer when it comes to shelling out more money.


The school system failed these people. It's not a service guy's job to teach them to READ.

 

[Mr Nice]

Most single moms really don't have the time to read the owner's manual and understand why her check engine light is on.

The sad part is that service writers use high pressure scare tactics to sell unnecessary parts and labor to people who really can't afford the extra $85 to change their dirty cabin A/C filter.

 

[holla]

Originally Posted By: bigmike


The school system failed these people. It's not a service guy's job to teach them to READ.


what a [censored] comment. So it's ok to rip someone off if they don't know any better.

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: bigmike
Originally Posted By: Spector
The problem I have with the techs recommending these services is that many people going to a stealership never read the manual, depend on the service rep to guide them and all they do is guide them to the ATM for more cash to pay the cashier. They should be required to show owners where it says recommended maintenance in the owners manual. People just trust these reps to do the right thing and it is way too rare an occasion when a service rep does the right thing by a customer when it comes to shelling out more money.


The school system failed these people. It's not a service guy's job to teach them to READ.



+1


It's called common sense. Not everyone gets it, I guess. I'm never afraid to question something or do my homework.



I had the Ziebart owner just walk me through his place to explain stuff I wanted to know....

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: holla
Originally Posted By: bigmike


The school system failed these people. It's not a service guy's job to teach them to READ.


what a [censored] comment. So it's ok to rip someone off if they don't know any better.



Yep. You got it. Everyone needs to make a living....