sounds like a Jiffy Lube trip,,oomy
back from getting Toyota serviced - rant time
- Thread starter sceva
- Start date
- Status
Those services are very profitable, easy to do, and could actually be needed with 42,000 miles. Problem is you really have to watch to see if they actually do the work.
What made me laugh was when I had tires replaced at tire shop, and the service writer there had bad news for every customer in the waiting room. I knew my turn was coming, so I get called in for ball joints. I played stupid for a while, he showed me grease oozing out of my king pins and said the ball joints were bad, in fact he insisted. This front end is as tight as the day it rolled off the assembly line. When I informed him to know the names of the parts he's trying to sell he was taken. I said to him those were King pins not ball joints and they're fine. He then proceeded to show me my rear brakes needed replacement. I looked, and said they look fine to me, they were. He said you see these things [rivets], I said yes. He said when you can see then the shoes are bad. I said when you have close to 3/16" meat before the rivet the brakes are fine. Then I suggested he try to screw someone else.
What I also did was told him to forget doing the wheel alignment and rewrite the invoice. I said since you think the "ball joints" are bad I don't want the front end touched by them. I took it to someone I trusted and had him align the vehicle, he said the front end was perfect. LOL, I check it when I rotate tires every 6,000 miles.
What I find works quite well is if you actually know a little about your car. The more you know the better. When they start the upsell politely tell them you're in the business. That has never failed me.
What made me laugh was when I had tires replaced at tire shop, and the service writer there had bad news for every customer in the waiting room. I knew my turn was coming, so I get called in for ball joints. I played stupid for a while, he showed me grease oozing out of my king pins and said the ball joints were bad, in fact he insisted. This front end is as tight as the day it rolled off the assembly line. When I informed him to know the names of the parts he's trying to sell he was taken. I said to him those were King pins not ball joints and they're fine. He then proceeded to show me my rear brakes needed replacement. I looked, and said they look fine to me, they were. He said you see these things [rivets], I said yes. He said when you can see then the shoes are bad. I said when you have close to 3/16" meat before the rivet the brakes are fine. Then I suggested he try to screw someone else.
What I also did was told him to forget doing the wheel alignment and rewrite the invoice. I said since you think the "ball joints" are bad I don't want the front end touched by them. I took it to someone I trusted and had him align the vehicle, he said the front end was perfect. LOL, I check it when I rotate tires every 6,000 miles.
What I find works quite well is if you actually know a little about your car. The more you know the better. When they start the upsell politely tell them you're in the business. That has never failed me.
I don't know how these places even stay in business with the kind of overhead they are running.
A guy I work with worked at one of the goodyear franchise centers.
He got to know the accountant there talking about his taxes. He learned that the place needed 24k per month just to cover costs.
The lease on the place was 11k
The franchise fee was 5k per month.
Insurances were 3k
utilities ran about 3k, etc.
From the owners point of view, he was 24k in the hole the 1st of every month.
And, yes, the techs were pushed to sell. They were told every invoice should be 500.00. And if you were not generating the kind of numbers they wanted, you were out of there. Thats why my co worker left. He would not be a mugger for some owner.
A guy I work with worked at one of the goodyear franchise centers.
He got to know the accountant there talking about his taxes. He learned that the place needed 24k per month just to cover costs.
The lease on the place was 11k
The franchise fee was 5k per month.
Insurances were 3k
utilities ran about 3k, etc.
From the owners point of view, he was 24k in the hole the 1st of every month.
And, yes, the techs were pushed to sell. They were told every invoice should be 500.00. And if you were not generating the kind of numbers they wanted, you were out of there. Thats why my co worker left. He would not be a mugger for some owner.
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Quote:
Are you kidding me? Chances are they would not be changed?? How can you make statement like that?? You are saying that shops will take your money and do nothing than shops that will actually perform the services?
YES. I don't trust those lazy uneducatedsnakes auto techs / service writers trying to sell unnecessary services to customers they don't need or never asked for.
Sure times are tuff and service writers and mechanics need to cheat the customer to say in business. I'm sure that new facility with fancy waiting areas and amenities such as all you can drink coffee and stale donuts is a trade off for that 40K mile power steering service the service writer sold.
Why do they need to pressure customers ?
You are an idiot. A service writer is supposed to educate the customer on the recommend maintenance schedules for their vehicles, and well as inform them of any areas which may need attention. That is a bad thing?? No one says you "HAVE" to buy anything, but at least you know that there is something that requires attention.
LT4, are you such an expert that you can make a blanket statement like "unnecessary services and parts" How do you know what someone elses car needs?? I guess a service writer or technician is a "snake" for doing an inspection on your vehicle and letting you know say for instance your brakes are about 95% worn out? or your ball joint is so lose it is ready to come apart? or your transmission fluid looks like used motor oil?
Listen, I know that there are a lot of people out there who look to take advantage of customers, but it is not limited to auto dealerships by any means.
On the comment about finding a local mechanic? That is great. There are plenty of skilled people out there, and when it comes down to it vehicles are all nuts and bolts. However, there is a distinct advantage to working on one line of vehicles. You see them every day, you know what to look for, and you know how to repair them.
Do you know how many cars are brought into service each week because someone else worked on them (customer trying to save a few bucks) and now it is at the dealer to have the work either finished or corrected?
I'm not preaching that dealerships are the only place you should ever service your vehicle, but it is highly unfair for you to make general statements about what someone does and does not need, or accuse everyone of stealing?
Being that you are a military veteran, do you think the comments and statements that people make about the military are fair?
Quote:
Are you kidding me? Chances are they would not be changed?? How can you make statement like that?? You are saying that shops will take your money and do nothing than shops that will actually perform the services?
YES. I don't trust those lazy uneducated
Sure times are tuff and service writers and mechanics need to cheat the customer to say in business. I'm sure that new facility with fancy waiting areas and amenities such as all you can drink coffee and stale donuts is a trade off for that 40K mile power steering service the service writer sold.
Why do they need to pressure customers ?
You are an idiot. A service writer is supposed to educate the customer on the recommend maintenance schedules for their vehicles, and well as inform them of any areas which may need attention. That is a bad thing?? No one says you "HAVE" to buy anything, but at least you know that there is something that requires attention.
LT4, are you such an expert that you can make a blanket statement like "unnecessary services and parts" How do you know what someone elses car needs?? I guess a service writer or technician is a "snake" for doing an inspection on your vehicle and letting you know say for instance your brakes are about 95% worn out? or your ball joint is so lose it is ready to come apart? or your transmission fluid looks like used motor oil?
Listen, I know that there are a lot of people out there who look to take advantage of customers, but it is not limited to auto dealerships by any means.
On the comment about finding a local mechanic? That is great. There are plenty of skilled people out there, and when it comes down to it vehicles are all nuts and bolts. However, there is a distinct advantage to working on one line of vehicles. You see them every day, you know what to look for, and you know how to repair them.
Do you know how many cars are brought into service each week because someone else worked on them (customer trying to save a few bucks) and now it is at the dealer to have the work either finished or corrected?
I'm not preaching that dealerships are the only place you should ever service your vehicle, but it is highly unfair for you to make general statements about what someone does and does not need, or accuse everyone of stealing?
Being that you are a military veteran, do you think the comments and statements that people make about the military are fair?
Originally Posted By: wiswind
Having a relationship with a shop that you can trust is a important part of owning a vehicle.
If you can no longer feel that you can trust this shop, then it is time to look for another shop.
well said.
Having a relationship with a shop that you can trust is a important part of owning a vehicle.
If you can no longer feel that you can trust this shop, then it is time to look for another shop.
well said.
The chevy dealer recommended a coolant flush about 2 weeks after I had done it myself.
I had to take my saturn in for yearly inspection, and they do it for free if you have a GM car.
I told the service guy no thanks, I just did it two weeks ago. He just said he was sorry, and that the computer tells him what to suggest based on mileage. Also if the tech notices anything, they will suggest that also.
I had to take my saturn in for yearly inspection, and they do it for free if you have a GM car.
I told the service guy no thanks, I just did it two weeks ago. He just said he was sorry, and that the computer tells him what to suggest based on mileage. Also if the tech notices anything, they will suggest that also.
Actually: I have politely and respectfully e-mailed the dealer to express my feelings that my trust has diminished due to the marked increase in recommended extra service over what was done at the old facility and over no longer being able to discuss the recommendation with the mechanic. (I trust tham over the service writer) I will also return there for my next service (it will be the 45K scheduled service - done at 46.5 - 47K miles)and will request to be able to speak to the mechanic assigned my car. I didn't today as I had some things to get done today and it can wait.
One thing I do wonder is this: I realize the Power steering was based on the color, age and miles - no problem although $79.00 seems a little excessive so I will need to know just what they will do. I can do a suck and replace myself but they may actually remove the return line and flush it out.
But what would they be looking at during an oil change to say the Throttle Body was dirty and needed a $60.00 service. no diagnostic was done (they would have mentioned it and charged me) and no codes were mentioned. I did find a vehicle inspection checklist on my seat which was blank as to customer name and car info that was checked off for Fuel Injection Service in the Requires Immediate Attention box. Again: I question this as there is no miss, hesitation, loss of power or acceleration, and no lowering of fuel economy etc. I was just told "It was dirty" by the service writer. When I declined there was no pressure to get it done where, in the past when something was actually needed they immediately offered to let me speak to the tech or show me why they think it was needed. This has been a good place to both buy at and use for service in the past and I am planning to stay with them the benifit of the doubt but I won't bleindly accept everything they try to sell me either.
At the previous service (the first after being out of warranty)it was tires worn too bad to rotate (5/32 back 4/32 front Factory Goodyear Integrity tires at 37,500 miles which I figured was good service considering thy're not a very good tire) they wanted to sell me the same tires (they highly recommended them) 4 wheel alignment etc for only $650 or so. I politely declined them (I did say that I would look for better tires than the Integretys) as I was going to get new tires brfore winter anyway. I did some homework and went elsewhere and bought a set of much better tires, the alignment was checked and OK which was good as there is little or no adjustment that can actually be done, and saved consideral money.
One thing I do wonder is this: I realize the Power steering was based on the color, age and miles - no problem although $79.00 seems a little excessive so I will need to know just what they will do. I can do a suck and replace myself but they may actually remove the return line and flush it out.
But what would they be looking at during an oil change to say the Throttle Body was dirty and needed a $60.00 service. no diagnostic was done (they would have mentioned it and charged me) and no codes were mentioned. I did find a vehicle inspection checklist on my seat which was blank as to customer name and car info that was checked off for Fuel Injection Service in the Requires Immediate Attention box. Again: I question this as there is no miss, hesitation, loss of power or acceleration, and no lowering of fuel economy etc. I was just told "It was dirty" by the service writer. When I declined there was no pressure to get it done where, in the past when something was actually needed they immediately offered to let me speak to the tech or show me why they think it was needed. This has been a good place to both buy at and use for service in the past and I am planning to stay with them the benifit of the doubt but I won't bleindly accept everything they try to sell me either.
At the previous service (the first after being out of warranty)it was tires worn too bad to rotate (5/32 back 4/32 front Factory Goodyear Integrity tires at 37,500 miles which I figured was good service considering thy're not a very good tire) they wanted to sell me the same tires (they highly recommended them) 4 wheel alignment etc for only $650 or so. I politely declined them (I did say that I would look for better tires than the Integretys) as I was going to get new tires brfore winter anyway. I did some homework and went elsewhere and bought a set of much better tires, the alignment was checked and OK which was good as there is little or no adjustment that can actually be done, and saved consideral money.
Originally Posted By: JustinH
The chevy dealer recommended a coolant flush about 2 weeks after I had done it myself.
I had to take my saturn in for yearly inspection, and they do it for free if you have a GM car.
I told the service guy no thanks, I just did it two weeks ago. He just said he was sorry, and that the computer tells him what to suggest based on mileage. Also if the tech notices anything, they will suggest that also.
Somethings are recommend on the intervals. Thing is, your brand new coolant could like 5 year old coolant, and not everyone something to test the coolant. At least he was honest and didn't try to b.s. you.
The chevy dealer recommended a coolant flush about 2 weeks after I had done it myself.
I had to take my saturn in for yearly inspection, and they do it for free if you have a GM car.
I told the service guy no thanks, I just did it two weeks ago. He just said he was sorry, and that the computer tells him what to suggest based on mileage. Also if the tech notices anything, they will suggest that also.
Somethings are recommend on the intervals. Thing is, your brand new coolant could like 5 year old coolant, and not everyone something to test the coolant. At least he was honest and didn't try to b.s. you.
Originally Posted By: JustinH
The chevy dealer recommended a coolant flush about 2 weeks after I had done it myself.
I had to take my saturn in for yearly inspection, and they do it for free if you have a GM car.
I told the service guy no thanks, I just did it two weeks ago. He just said he was sorry, and that the computer tells him what to suggest based on mileage. Also if the tech notices anything, they will suggest that also.
I have no problem with recommendations based on mileage, those are normally discussed at write-up when I bring the car in. I also have no problems with suggestions from the tech. What I do have a problem with is a marked increase in the number of things "found" by the techs after ther change to the new facility. It is the greatly increased frequency of needed services that suddenly everyone seems to need that I find disturbing.
The chevy dealer recommended a coolant flush about 2 weeks after I had done it myself.
I had to take my saturn in for yearly inspection, and they do it for free if you have a GM car.
I told the service guy no thanks, I just did it two weeks ago. He just said he was sorry, and that the computer tells him what to suggest based on mileage. Also if the tech notices anything, they will suggest that also.
I have no problem with recommendations based on mileage, those are normally discussed at write-up when I bring the car in. I also have no problems with suggestions from the tech. What I do have a problem with is a marked increase in the number of things "found" by the techs after ther change to the new facility. It is the greatly increased frequency of needed services that suddenly everyone seems to need that I find disturbing.
Cars are complicated. Everything is a judgment call. That leaves a lot of room for opinion.
Call it what you will. The only way to be able to call anybody on overselling is to know your car well. Nuff said.
A businesses in The USA has lot of overhead. Fine line between over and underselling sometimes.
Call it what you will. The only way to be able to call anybody on overselling is to know your car well. Nuff said.
A businesses in The USA has lot of overhead. Fine line between over and underselling sometimes.
Originally Posted By: Michael_P
Lug nuts?
Yeah. Once once when I was there they came out to get an Ok for a bunch of new lugnuts. The woman was asking why her lugnuts went bad. On that one I am pretty sure there was a lot more to the story and that someone outside of the dealer had done something to her wheels or else she had never had them rotated ever and they had rusted in place and were damaged in removal. I believe it was a totally ligit request by the dealer.
Lug nuts?
Yeah. Once once when I was there they came out to get an Ok for a bunch of new lugnuts. The woman was asking why her lugnuts went bad. On that one I am pretty sure there was a lot more to the story and that someone outside of the dealer had done something to her wheels or else she had never had them rotated ever and they had rusted in place and were damaged in removal. I believe it was a totally ligit request by the dealer.
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
Cars are complicated. Everything is a judgment call. That leaves a lot of room for opinion.
Call it what you will. The only way to be able to call anybody on overselling is to know your car well. Nuff said.
Agreed : you need to know your car and it helps to have at least a basic knowledge of auto mechanics.
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
A businesses in The USA has lot of overhead. Fine line between over and underselling sometimes.
Are you saying that high overhead makes it OK to oversell services that may not actually be needed.
Cars are complicated. Everything is a judgment call. That leaves a lot of room for opinion.
Call it what you will. The only way to be able to call anybody on overselling is to know your car well. Nuff said.
Agreed : you need to know your car and it helps to have at least a basic knowledge of auto mechanics.
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
A businesses in The USA has lot of overhead. Fine line between over and underselling sometimes.
Are you saying that high overhead makes it OK to oversell services that may not actually be needed.
Threads like this are one of the reasons I quit working full time as a mechanic. We're all just scumbagb theives.......
I got fired from two different places for not upselling & recommending enough extra services. I would always as the customer if they would like to see the problems (if they were still at the location). I got more return customers because I was honest about things and the services I performed. However, with shops dropping the book times like crazy the money just wasn't worth the hassle anymore.
It was tough to watch other guys rake in the dough performing all kinds of stuff that didn't need to be done. But I decided to get out rather than give in.
I took my wifes Accord in for a warranty repair once last year or the year before. The service writer comes over and tells me that it needs all kinds of service. He has an estimate written up for an injection cleaning, needs an air filter & fuel filter, needs an alignment, coolant flush, power steering flush.
I played stupid and started asking canned customer type questions and got canned [censored] responses. When I asked him if I could go take a look at the car he said that customers couldn't be in the shop [censored]. I eventually got him to take me out to the car. The tech was nowhere to be found. He then proceeds to [censored] me some more. I keep playing stupid.
Then I see the techs ASE cert list by his toolbox. I told the service writer that I was declining all the extra services and that I'd do them myself at home since I had the stuff to do it. OH NO,can't do that. He then says that I should have a certified tech do the work.
So what do I do, I pull out MY ASE cert card and inform him that, if he wants to bring certs into this convo, I'm more qualified to fix the car than his tech is. I also informed him that I had already done everything but the air filter about 3 weeks before. His face went completely blank, then he just walked off and left me standing there. So I got in the car and left.
I had the repair done at a differnt dealer. Once again I see the service writer coming over to me and I think I'm going to do it all again. GREAT.....
He says "Your car is in excellent shape, you take good care of it. It's ready to go". That's the kind of person I am and want to deal with.
I got fired from two different places for not upselling & recommending enough extra services. I would always as the customer if they would like to see the problems (if they were still at the location). I got more return customers because I was honest about things and the services I performed. However, with shops dropping the book times like crazy the money just wasn't worth the hassle anymore.
It was tough to watch other guys rake in the dough performing all kinds of stuff that didn't need to be done. But I decided to get out rather than give in.
I took my wifes Accord in for a warranty repair once last year or the year before. The service writer comes over and tells me that it needs all kinds of service. He has an estimate written up for an injection cleaning, needs an air filter & fuel filter, needs an alignment, coolant flush, power steering flush.
I played stupid and started asking canned customer type questions and got canned [censored] responses. When I asked him if I could go take a look at the car he said that customers couldn't be in the shop [censored]. I eventually got him to take me out to the car. The tech was nowhere to be found. He then proceeds to [censored] me some more. I keep playing stupid.
Then I see the techs ASE cert list by his toolbox. I told the service writer that I was declining all the extra services and that I'd do them myself at home since I had the stuff to do it. OH NO,can't do that. He then says that I should have a certified tech do the work.
So what do I do, I pull out MY ASE cert card and inform him that, if he wants to bring certs into this convo, I'm more qualified to fix the car than his tech is. I also informed him that I had already done everything but the air filter about 3 weeks before. His face went completely blank, then he just walked off and left me standing there. So I got in the car and left.
I had the repair done at a differnt dealer. Once again I see the service writer coming over to me and I think I'm going to do it all again. GREAT.....
He says "Your car is in excellent shape, you take good care of it. It's ready to go". That's the kind of person I am and want to deal with.
I've found that whenever I work on a car other than my own, I always find something that needs attention. It could be a cabin air filter, trans fluid, loose taillight, etc.
Try working on some of your friends cars, and you'll quickly find that just about every car that you work on is not quite up-to-date on preventive maintenance. And yes, those fuel induction services work-- it's similar to Seafoam.
Try working on some of your friends cars, and you'll quickly find that just about every car that you work on is not quite up-to-date on preventive maintenance. And yes, those fuel induction services work-- it's similar to Seafoam.
It is the shop and the used car department that makes the dealerships the most cash. Problem is insane overhead can make a honest dealership into thieves. What bothers me is when they don't back down. Presenting the up sell is their job, ramming it down a persons throat doesn't cut it with me.
As times get worse expect dealers and shops to push the up sell even harder. I've seen cases where they size up a person, do the work, [w/o permission] something simple for example and charge top $$ for it. If they size up the right people they'll get away with it 9 out of 10 times. The one in ten person who barks loud enough will get the charge removed from the invoice. A lot of people don't like confrontation, so they are easy prey. I saw this happen many times at different places I worked at. Service writers were forced to up sell or find the door, it trickles down to the techs.
It is a vicious circle OTOH I only care about myself and my car, their problems will not become mine.
As times get worse expect dealers and shops to push the up sell even harder. I've seen cases where they size up a person, do the work, [w/o permission] something simple for example and charge top $$ for it. If they size up the right people they'll get away with it 9 out of 10 times. The one in ten person who barks loud enough will get the charge removed from the invoice. A lot of people don't like confrontation, so they are easy prey. I saw this happen many times at different places I worked at. Service writers were forced to up sell or find the door, it trickles down to the techs.
It is a vicious circle OTOH I only care about myself and my car, their problems will not become mine.
- Status
