Average new car price is $50K ? Insanity.

[grampi]

May I ask, 1) what is your budget? 2) what would you have gotten for it at pre-Covid prices?

My budget is such that I could actually afford just about any vehicle I wanted. I'd just rather spend the money on other things like traveling, motorcycles, RC planes, and perhaps a full scale plane like an ultralight. I don't know what "it" is in your second question...

 

[grampi]

Best way to do this - I think - is to buy a quality car, like a Mercedes (for (example), preferably new or a supremely kept example, and do that experiment with it, by continuing supreme upkeep vs buying a clapped out penalty box Corolla at 150k mi and taking it to half a mil, fixing it with 2nd rate Chinese parts along the way

Clapped out penalty box? Lol! That Mercedes will require twice as much maintenance as a clapped out Corolla at twice the cost. Corollas are a dime a dozen and there's more of them on the road than any other make/model, which means parts are inexpensive and plentiful...

 

[grampi]

What year is it? Post a picture please

'04

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Best way to do this - I think - is to buy a quality car, like a Mercedes (for (example), preferably new or a supremely kept example, and do that experiment with it, by continuing supreme upkeep vs buying a clapped out penalty box Corolla at 150k mi and taking it to half a mil, fixing it with 2nd rate Chinese parts along the way

@Astro14 would know. He has some experience with them.

 

[IndyIan]

Best way to do this - I think - is to buy a quality car, like a Mercedes (for (example), preferably new or a supremely kept example, and do that experiment with it, by continuing supreme upkeep vs buying a clapped out penalty box Corolla at 150k mi and taking it to half a mil, fixing it with 2nd rate Chinese parts along the way

Give it a shot... But IMO, a 2000's toyota specs better parts quality than most brands at any price, they have simpler more robust designs, and there's half as many parts, and far fewer german engineers involved than with MB, etc...
N.A. gets only the complicated drivetrains, and upper trim levels from MB, BMW, Audi, and they are nice cars if you can afford them, and afford to maintain them, but there are many 4-5 figure repair bills on lots of them. I'm sure there must be couple model configurations of BMW and MB that are pretty simple and solid, do your research and pick one of those.
A base 4 cyl manual 1 series BMW may get pretty close to Corolla simplicity, reliability and mileage, but we don't have that here.

Also buying cheap parts for any car is only a good idea if you are selling it the next week. Have you been in a cared for 2000's toyota or honda? They aren't plush but usually are quiet enough, ride smooth on high profile tires and function well, and almost everything will still work. My ford has a few more parts quality issues but I try to address them as they come up.

 

[Astro14]

@Astro14 would know. He has some experience with them.

Thank you. I would say that my experience with Mercedes has been in two broad categories; My W123 and W124 sedans that were durable, reliable, and inexpensive to operate, and support your point, or my W220 and R230 V-12 twin turbos that have been fairly expensive to maintain. The latter two are the opposite of what's being suggested. They aren't cheap to own, but they have been reliable.

They're indulgences. Wonderful cars with breathtaking performance and smoothness.

If you'll permit me to put Volvo in the luxury car class, then, yes, an older, well-maintained luxury car can be an inexpensive, reliable daily driver. The 5 Volvos in my sig are driven daily by 5 family members. I'm driving my V70R in Denver today.

They range from 19 to 22 years old. They have just over a million miles on the group (range is from 125K on the low side to 295K on the high side). Number of times they have, as a group, left someone stranded - once.

When my wife had a cam seal blow out in her 2002 V70XC, due to a failed PCV system (that had been fixed, though not completely, by our dealer). She pulled over when she saw the smoke trail. We flat-bedded the car home, and I dropped the oil pan to fix it. I am now much more careful with PCV system repairs. That was over 10 years ago, the car hasn't had any major issues since, though it has had a complete suspension rebuild.

So, there you go, a fleet of 5 "luxury" cars, a million miles of aggregate experience, great reliability.

We can add a very low total cost of ownership. Let's take the middle car, my daughter's 2002 V70 T5. Bought in 2007 with 72,000 miles on it for $12,500, cash. On the road 16 years later, with 225,000 on it, in daily service. Insurance is low. Depreciation is very, very low, on the order of $600/year. Repair cost has been modest.

A good car, well-cared for, even if a "luxury" make, can be a very inexpensive option to own.

 

[TiGeo]

My question is...how does the insurance and financing end of this work now?

So I buy a new car MSRP at $40K but pay $50K b/c of dealer "market adjustment". I borrow most of that. I total it. How does the insurance company value it? How do folks get loans for the difference in value vs. market price b/c this is basically is unsecured dedt now? I suppose the flow thorugh is to the used market as well so while the vehicle may be stickered at $40K, market price is $50K so that is new value to base everything on?

 

[The Critic]

My question is...how does the insurance and financing end of this work now?

So I buy a new car MSRP at $40K but pay $50K b/c of dealer "market adjustment". I borrow most of that. I total it. How does the insurance company value it? How do folks get loans for the difference in value vs. market price b/c this is basically is unsecured dedt now? I suppose the flow thorugh is to the used market as well so while the vehicle may be stickered at $40K, market price is $50K so that is new value to base everything on?

GAP coverage, but many policies have a cap.

 

[TiGeo]

GAP coverage, but many policies have a cap.

Yeah, that would do it and most folks buy it that finance 100% of the car.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Would I like something newer and nicer? Of course. I'm just not willing to pay the insane prices today...

So you have said that you would like something newer, but you are not feeling to pay insane prices of today.

Let’s assume the used car prices have gotten back to pre-COVID levels. What is the “newer and nicer” car that you would have gotten and how much would you have allocated to purchase it?

 

[AlphaOmega]

Clapped out penalty box? Lol! That Mercedes will require twice as much maintenance as a clapped out Corolla at twice the cost.

A 20 year old Corolla with 400k+ miles is not a clapped out penalty box? . I don’t deny that it is better than walking, and it’s nice and cozy inside when it’s a downpour outside and you need to be somewhere, but come on mate!

As to Merc requiring twice the maintenance at twice the cost… wouldn’t a Geo Metro (for example) be even cheaper to run than your Toyota? Yet aren’t driving that!

 

[AlphaOmega]

Give it a shot... But IMO, a 2000's toyota specs better parts quality than most brands at any price, they have simpler more robust designs, and there's half as many parts, and far fewer german engineers involved than with MB, etc...
N.A. gets only the complicated drivetrains, and upper trim levels from MB, BMW, Audi, and they are nice cars if you can afford them, and afford to maintain them, but there are many 4-5 figure repair bills on lots of them. I'm sure there must be couple model configurations of BMW and MB that are pretty simple and solid, do your research and pick one of those.
A base 4 cyl manual 1 series BMW may get pretty close to Corolla simplicity, reliability and mileage, but we don't have that here.

Also buying cheap parts for any car is only a good idea if you are selling it the next week. Have you been in a cared for 2000's toyota or honda? They aren't plush but usually are quiet enough, ride smooth on high profile tires and function well, and almost everything will still work. My ford has a few more parts quality issues but I try to address them as they come up.

I have been in 2000s Toyotas and Hondas and owned a few new. Everything is relative though. As time goes on, trying a new generation products changes one’s perspective. Try going back to a 2008 phone you used to have that was completely satisfactory back then, for example. My long-time-ago girlfriend had our colleague’s Corolla When it was 2 years old, IIRC (maybe an 03 in 2005?). It was off putting to me even back then: the smell of materials, the handling. I had a new 07, I think, accord V6. Fun and pleasant feel of quality, but it lacked sufficient suspension travel.

Anyways, I’m a member of a Facebook group for a 2010-2016 E class. That a car that never costed less than $40k+ anywhere in the world in he most basic form. I occasionally see people posting mileage on their cars. I save those pictures. Take a look at some, 200k miles and up. Divide kilometers by 1.5 to get miles:

 

[IndyIan]

I have been in 2000s Toyotas and Hondas and owned a few new. Everything is relative though. As time goes on, trying a new generation products changes one’s perspective. Try going back to a 2008 phone you used to have that was completely satisfactory back then, for example. My long-time-ago girlfriend had our colleague’s Corolla When it was 2 years old, IIRC (maybe an 03 in 2005?). It was off putting to me even back then: the smell of materials, the handling. I had a new 07, I think, accord V6. Fun and pleasant feel of quality, but it lacked sufficient suspension travel.

Anyways, I’m a member of a Facebook group for a 2010-2016 E class. That a car that never costed less than $40k+ anywhere in the world in he most basic form. I occasionally see people posting mileage on their cars. I save those pictures. Take a look at some, 200k miles and up. Divide kilometers by 1.5 to get miles:

View attachment 151398View attachment 151399View attachment 151400View attachment 151401View attachment 151402View attachment 151403View attachment 151404View attachment 151405

Looks good, just too much for me to start with! plus premium gas, and worse mileage, expensive tires, etc.... If you followed the manual for all the brake and coolant flushes, and had it done at a dealer... yikes! I think i set the cruise above 70mph only a few times a year, so autobahn capability isn't required on my normal 55mph roads...
I would like to see some costs per mile on those cars. If it's only twice as much as a Corolla I'd be impressed! Does anyone figure that out on the facebook group?

If that's how you want to spend your money that's fine, but I sure don't. A semi-fancy, more expensive car isn't a priority for me and others, and I don't feel bad about it.

 

[grampi]

A 20 year old Corolla with 400k+ miles is not a clapped out penalty box? . I don’t deny that it is better than walking, and it’s nice and cozy inside when it’s a downpour outside and you need to be somewhere, but come on mate!

As to Merc requiring twice the maintenance at twice the cost… wouldn’t a Geo Metro (for example) be even cheaper to run than your Toyota? Yet aren’t driving that!

I don't see it as one. I see it as a paid for vehicle, in which everything works (including the AC), and it does everything I need it to do reliably. The Geo Metro wouldn't save me much over the Corolla, not anywhere near as much as the Corolla saves me over a Mercedes...

 

[grampi]

So you have said that you would like something newer, but you are not feeling to pay insane prices of today.

Let’s assume the used car prices have gotten back to pre-COVID levels. What is the “newer and nicer” car that you would have gotten and how much would you have allocated to purchase it?

I would go for a newer Corolla, or possibly a Mazda model. Cost would depend on what's available...

 

[AlphaOmega]

I would go for a newer Corolla, or possibly a Mazda model. Cost would depend on what's available...

So if a $20k newer Corolla or possibly a Mazda model would have been available you’d go for that, but if only a $16k car would be available then you’d have to for it? I’m trying to understand the “availability” part of your statement

I don't see it as one. I see it as a paid for vehicle, in which everything works (including the AC), and it does everything I need it to do reliably.

The two aren’t mutually exclusive .

 

[Dave Hess]

I would go for a newer Corolla, or possibly a Mazda model. Cost would depend on what's available...

Yes, Corolla and Mazda3 are both great cars for the money.

No need to spend big money to get a very reliable vehicle.

I know some very wealthy people driving vehicles under $35K.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Looks good, just too much for me to start with! plus premium gas, and worse mileage, expensive tires, etc.... If you followed the manual for all the brake and coolant flushes, and had it done at a dealer... yikes! I think i set the cruise above 70mph only a few times a year, so autobahn capability isn't required on my normal 55mph roads...
I would like to see some costs per mile on those cars. If it's only twice as much as a Corolla I'd be impressed! Does anyone figure that out on the facebook group?

If that's how you want to spend your money that's fine, but I sure don't. A semi-fancy, more expensive car isn't a priority for me and others, and I don't feel bad about it.

Most of these are 2nd or possibly even 3rd owners. Most of the cars are diesel, so there is a turbo (added complexity).

Coolant swap is a once every 15 years/150k mi affair. Brake flush at MB dealer isn’t much more than at Toyota, but in any event, these are DIY items no more complex than they are on a 2004 Corolla.

As to autobahns… they are only in Germany, and even there most of them are restricted to 130 km/h, most of the time. Yet these cars are purchased all over Europe and driven at much slower average speeds than what you drive at!

The maintenance (some by me, some by dealer, some by Indy) on my car that is 8 something years old and almost at 100k mi + a single repair is about $3,500-4k. $1,400 of that was for x2 ATF swaps at the dealer. So that’s 4 cents/mile. Hope I got that right. Not counting premium gas at ~24 mpg — I drive like a juvenile adult

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I have been in 2000s Toyotas and Hondas and owned a few new. Everything is relative though. As time goes on, trying a new generation products changes one’s perspective. Try going back to a 2008 phone you used to have that was completely satisfactory back then, for example. My long-time-ago girlfriend had our colleague’s Corolla When it was 2 years old, IIRC (maybe an 03 in 2005?). It was off putting to me even back then: the smell of materials, the handling. I had a new 07, I think, accord V6. Fun and pleasant feel of quality, but it lacked sufficient suspension travel.

Anyways, I’m a member of a Facebook group for a 2010-2016 E class. That a car that never costed less than $40k+ anywhere in the world in he most basic form. I occasionally see people posting mileage on their cars. I save those pictures. Take a look at some, 200k miles and up. Divide kilometers by 1.5 to get miles:

View attachment 151398View attachment 151399View attachment 151400View attachment 151401View attachment 151402View attachment 151403View attachment 151404View attachment 151405

Odometers are interesting but of course the devil is in the details. For example US based cars are loaded with technology and larger engines that may not be found in some of these above examples. Second we don't know how much anyone has paid to get their vehicles to that mileage nor do we know their current state. IJS

 

[Kurtatron]

Most of these are 2nd or possibly even 3rd owners. Most of the cars are diesel, so there is a turbo (added complexity).

Coolant swap is a once every 15 years/150k mi affair. Brake flush at MB dealer isn’t much more than at Toyota, but in any event, these are DIY items no more complex than they are on a 2004 Corolla.

As to autobahns… they are only in Germany, and even there most of them are restricted to 130 km/h, most of the time. Yet these cars are purchased all over Europe and driven at much slower average speeds than what you drive at!

The maintenance (some by me, some by dealer, some by Indy) on my car that is 8 something years old and almost at 100k mi + a single repair is about $3,500-4k. $1,400 of that was for x2 ATF swaps at the dealer. So that’s 4 cents/mile. Hope I got that right. Not counting premium gas at ~24 mpg — I drive like a juvenile adult

If I had an abundance of money, I would absolutely drive a nicer car. For me, ideal would be a Tacoma TRD manual transmission. I crave a fun, practical car. Sports cars are fun and all, but they’re just not comfortable and most luxury cars are too disconnected from the road to be exciting to me. But I don’t have enough money for any of that. I don’t even have a house yet. Stuck in an apartment. So I am forced to drive in a penalty box. But my penalty box is a manual transmission, so it is mildly enjoyable.