Australian article - Toyota sludge lawsuit

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Interesting that news about the US Toyota sludge lawsuit has made it to Australia. The comments by Toyota Australia are surprising to say the least. It is well known that the respective Australian models are prone to sludge and as far as I know, apart from being right-hand-drive, the respective models are pretty much the same mechanically. Unfortunately, we don't have the legal system that the US has and cannot force large companies to do the right thing ....

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Toyota's oil not so slick
Christopher Jensen, The Sydney Morning Herald, 16/02/07

US court ruling may lead to hefty compensation suit.

Toyota in the United States has settled a class action by owners who complained their vehicles had been damaged by a build-up of thickened oil or sludge in the engine.

The maker now faces a hefty compensation suit, as about 3.5 million of Toyota’s vehicles are covered by the settlement, approved by a Louisiana state court.

Sludge is a thickening of oil as it breaks down due to age or contaminants, compromising lubrication.

The sludge has been found in several models in the US, including the Camry, Avalon, Highlander (Kluger) and Celica.

Analysts estimate the compensation bill could run into billions of dollars.

Toyota Australia says it has had no reports of sludge build-up and that the Camry issue is related to the American-built engine’s intake system, which is different to locally built engines.

The high-profile case will dent Toyota’s reputation further, after the Japanese giant had its worst year ever for recalls in 2006.

In a leaked presentation obtained by the Detroit Free Press, Toyota executives admit they are concerned about the numbers of recalls last year. The president of Toyota’s North American engineering and manufacturing units, Seiichi Sudo, attributes the problems to design issues, caused largely by a high project workload. Toyota was not the worst manufacturer for recalls, recording fewer overall than Chrysler, Ford, GM, Nissan, Honda or Volkswagen.

Toyota’s North America president, Jim Press, told Reuters last week that the recent recalls would make Toyota strive for better quality. The recalls ‘‘scared us to the point where we’re re-energised on quality’’, he said.

In the settlement, Toyota did not concede a design flaw. It claimed poor maintenance was to blame but said it settled to avoid costly litigation. But consumer advocates say that if poor maintenance was the only issue, all makers would be facing claims over all their engines.

Instead, sludge problems in the US have affected only certain engines from a handful of makers: Toyota (and Lexus), Audi, Saab, Volkswagen, Chrysler and Dodge.

The lawyers who brought the sludge suit against Toyota say they were prepared to argue there was a design flaw that made the engines susceptible to sludge.

They said that under the terms of the settlement, Toyota engineering reports they gathered were not allowed to be made public.

The settlement covers the vehicles for eight years and unlimited mileage from the time they were new. The automaker says it will cover repairs if the owner can prove a ‘‘reasonable’’ attempt to maintain the vehicle, which Toyota describes as one oil change a year.
 
"...The lawyers who brought the sludge suit against Toyota say they were prepared to argue there was a design flaw that made the engines susceptible to sludge..."

LOL! What sort of background do these lawyers have? Are the Mech Engineering?
 
There has already been lawsuits against Toyota concerning cars and vans that Toyota produced some years ago. Are we talking about vehicles dating back to those years or newer Toyota vehicles?
 
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There has already been lawsuits against Toyota concerning cars and vans that Toyota produced some years ago. Are we talking about vehicles dating back to those years or newer Toyota vehicles?




My impression was that we are talking about the older vehicles from a few years ago but the story came out over Reuters only a few weeks ago. Maybe we are talking about a relatively new lawsuit concerning the older cars.
 
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"...The lawyers who brought the sludge suit against Toyota say they were prepared to argue there was a design flaw that made the engines susceptible to sludge..."

LOL! What sort of background do these lawyers have? Are the Mech Engineering?




A friend of mine has a Masters in Electrical Engineering and then got a law degree. She now deals with patent law for a major telecom company. So it's possible that there are some lawyers with Mechanical Engineering degrees.

And if not, there are always experts for hire.....
 
When you're shaking down major corps for serious millions, a few highly credentialed experts at $200/hr or so is small potatoes.
We engineers work pretty cheap compared to top line tort jockeys.
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The lawyers don't have to talk engineering to prove a fault. They can do it by showing a pattern of failures the envolve one engine model and compare it's performance to a similar engine that has no such problems. They can deal in the result of the problem not the cause. If they can prove that an engine is a sludger even though properly maintained they don't have to talk details and root cause. A well proven pattern is enough for a judgement. Either way, Toyota looses.
 
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"...The lawyers who brought the sludge suit against Toyota say they were prepared to argue there was a design flaw that made the engines susceptible to sludge..."

LOL! What sort of background do these lawyers have? Are the Mech Engineering?




Yes, usually are engineers who went to Law School later on. Much like many Patent Lawyers.
 
Bottom line: Toyota engineers KNOW that the attorneys can prove the sludge defect statistically.....otherwise there would never be a settlement. This is not a "shakedown" as some would have you believe. This is true product liability/defect litigation. And in this case the consumer has a bona-fide argument.
 
From what I remember some thought Toyota changed engine design to increase temperatures for improved emissions and it resulted in oil temperatures higher than optimum. Some claimed that marginal pcv systems also contributed. There were articles that cited actual oil temperatures but I don't remember the details.
 
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The lawyers don't have to talk engineering to prove a fault. They can do it by showing a pattern of failures the envolve one engine model and compare it's performance to a similar engine that has no such problems. They can deal in the result of the problem not the cause. If they can prove that an engine is a sludger even though properly maintained they don't have to talk details and root cause. A well proven pattern is enough for a judgement. Either way, Toyota looses.






Also , Quest wrote ;



"...The lawyers who brought the sludge suit against Toyota say they were prepared to argue there was a design flaw that made the engines susceptible to sludge..."

" LOL! What sort of background do these lawyers have? Are the Mech Engineering? "




I wouldn't go knocking them Lonnie and Quest , evidently they read much better than some of our forum do - ? ?
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-- besides these engines were just soooo bad you don't have to be an engineer to understand all the failure paths possible .


Well ,lets see if we can improve our critical reading and thinking skills together ;
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1 ) " They said that under the terms of the the settlement , TOYOTA ENGINEERING REPORTS THEY GATHERED WERE NOT ALLOWED TO BE MADE PUBLIC . "
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Just in case thats too confusing - they were going to use toyotas own reports to prove their point .
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Too bad that , because then all the other toyota engine stories would have been at least partially exposed and possibly remedied .
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Toyota Australia says it has had no reports of sludge build-up and that the Camry issue is related to the American-built engine's intake system, which is different to locally built engines
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Lonnie is not knocking anyone. Just stated that no engineering knowledge is needed to settle this case, just some kind of proof that damage was done.
 
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We engineers work pretty cheap compared to top line tort jockeys.
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Given that we tend to keep the world moving and the lights on, we work far too cheap.

A great engineer remarked to me once that the problem is we like messing with stuff and would prolly work for free as long as we got to play with technical stuff.
 
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