ATF Change with Limited Service History

[PaulyWally]

2006 Honda Civic 1.8L
~95,000mi

I've owned the car since somewhere around 35,000mi. I bought it Certified in 2009. I've just realized what a bad car owner I am (not by intention). I'm really good at regular maintenance, but I've never changed ATF because: 1) I had ATF changes/flushes on previous cars and experienced lots of transmission issues, and 2) I've heard from many mechanics, "never change the ATF in any vehicle if it hasn't been changed regularly" - and getting it explained in great technical detail why.

Well now I'm learning more about Honda's unique transmissions and I started to think, "maybe I should change the ATF." Trouble is, I have absolutely no way of knowing if the ATF has ever been changed before I acquired the car. I can ASSUME since it was Certified it very well could have had its 30,000 ATF change. But I received no service records on the vehicle. So I can't say for sure.

I've got 6 quarts of DW-1 and not sure what I should do. Here are some options I'm considering.
Leave it alone and return the $50 worth of ATF
Perform the "Honda 3x3" change (or a couple of them relatively close together)
Perform many incremental changes over the course of several months (i.e. - only replace 1/2 quart every week or 2, filtering the ATF each time)
Take it to a transmission specialist and let them do what they think is best
Something I haven't thought of?
The ATF is not low. The car shifts smooth during hard acceleration - at about 5400rpm. And I have no reason to suspect transmission issues. I'm just trying to be a better car owner now that I'm more educated about transmissions.

I've also got a 2003 (2.4L) Accord in a similar predicament. Currently at ~125,000mi. However, this car had an ATF change at a Honda dealer at 60,000mi. I'm not sure if it had one before that (it was bought Certified at around 50,000 with no maintenance records). The ATF in the Accord is almost a quart low. But like the Civic I have no reason to suspect transmission issues.

Attached is a picture of the ATF fluid in each car (cold). Any thoughts, info, empirical or anecdotal data would be much appreciated. Thank you!

 

[dlundblad]

I would change it with the correct fluid (no substitutes) regardless of mileage.

 

[SatinSilver]

Do a drain and fill on each car which is what Honda recommends anyway. No flushes on Hondas esp the older ones that are more prone to get a particle unstuck and clog one of the many small internal passages in the trans.

Then every two weeks or 500 miles to another drain and fill until you have a total of 3-4 drain and fills performed. Keep doing a drain and fill every 30k miles on each car going forward. If the car sees mostly city miles you can move the D/F up to about 20-25k miles if you feel the need. It sure wouldn't hurt on older Hondas that haven't seen much if any new atf. The Civic probably has never seen new atf in it.

 

[JC1]

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Do a drain and fill on each car which is what Honda recommends anyway. No flushes on Hondas esp the older ones that are more prone to get a particle unstuck and clog one of the many small internal passages in the trans.

Then every two weeks or 500 miles to another drain and fill until you have a total of 3-4 drain and fills performed. Keep doing a drain and fill every 30k miles on each car going forward. If the car sees mostly city miles you can move the D/F up to about 20-25k miles if you feel the need. It sure wouldn't hurt on older Hondas that haven't seen much if any new atf. The Civic probably has never seen new atf in it.


+1. I would just do the second and third drain and fills with your oil changes. I have a 1997 civic that I do drain and fills every two years. I had a 1994 accord that had the ATF changed every 30,000 miles (50,000km). The accord was sold with 415,xxx km on it and ran like a champ.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: PaulyWally
and 2) I've heard from many mechanics, "never change the ATF in any vehicle if it hasn't been changed regularly" - and getting it explained in great technical detail why.


I see people say this, but you've actually heard it from "many" mechanics? I've actually never heard it from any mechanic, ever, only second-hand on Internet boards like this one.

 

[HangFire]

Honda transmissions need fluid changes. If you're worried about previous deferred maintenance, ease into it.

Replace a 1/2 Quart.
Run it a week.
Replace a Quart.
Run it a couple of weeks.
Do one drain-n-fill cycle. Wait a month.
Do a full set of 3 drain and fills.

If the filter is replaceable, do that somewhere in the middle. I have an old Pilot where it is replaceable.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Do a drain and fill on each car which is what Honda recommends anyway. No flushes on Hondas esp the older ones that are more prone to get a particle unstuck and clog one of the many small internal passages in the trans.

Then every two weeks or 500 miles to another drain and fill until you have a total of 3-4 drain and fills performed. Keep doing a drain and fill every 30k miles on each car going forward. If the car sees mostly city miles you can move the D/F up to about 20-25k miles if you feel the need. It sure wouldn't hurt on older Hondas that haven't seen much if any new atf. The Civic probably has never seen new atf in it.


+1 of even consider doing a limited quantity (can square be suctioned from the dipstick?) to start, just to marginally clean the fluid and enhance additives, then do more of a complete drain and fill after a few of these? If you can suck a quart out the dipstick, doing that the first few times isn't really a chore, shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes. Iddo itwhen fueling up

 

[fcjeep]

I'm certainly no transmission expert but I had the same concerns as you because of what I've read online.

I decided to change the transmission fluid on 2 of the vehicles I maintain, (my GC at 96000 mi, with a filter change, and my son's Xterra at 91000 mi) and so far so good on both. My GC is pushing 148000 mi now with no issues. In addition, on the GC I have extracted and replaced 3-4 quarts 3 different times since the first fluid/filter change.

This may help you a bit with your decision. Look at it from the 4:50 mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o690DovjDAc

 

[demarpaint]

I would change it and use the recommended Honda fluid.

 

[raytseng]

just drain (or extract) and fill corresponding to your next oil changes to save time and effort.

if your time has value, this maximizes your time and effort and lowers your costs.

the whole change the fluid 3 times then dont touch it for 60000 miles makes no sense to me conpared to a more continuous replacement cycle.
it is not like the oil suddenly goes bad the day before your change and stays 100% good until your next flush. same with the folks who have the compulsion to jack up their car or do 2x oil changes to flush out the "bad" oil

 

[i_hate_autofraud]

I did this on a GM car, I asked the dealer to download service data to see what was done at the dealer,
worked out great, got reams of records. GM has centralized records by serial number. It was a small hassle
to get prev owners names removed, but OK in the end.

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Do a drain and fill on each car which is what Honda recommends anyway. No flushes on Hondas esp the older ones that are more prone to get a particle unstuck and clog one of the many small internal passages in the trans.

Then every two weeks or 500 miles to another drain and fill until you have a total of 3-4 drain and fills performed. Keep doing a drain and fill every 30k miles on each car going forward. If the car sees mostly city miles you can move the D/F up to about 20-25k miles if you feel the need. It sure wouldn't hurt on older Hondas that haven't seen much if any new atf. The Civic probably has never seen new atf in it.


This is the best advice given.

I would add that another good idea is to drop the pan on the 1st d/f and clean it out. Based on the color of the fluid, there may be a fair amount of debris in the pan. Introducing new fluid will be a positive, but it will also load up quicker by loading up with the debris the old, worn fluid could not hold in suspension. On a 100,000 + mile vehicle that has never seen a change (this one likely has not), this is a good practice. A pan drop is not hard, you just need a new gasket. I am assuming the pan is easily accessible on this car. In some FWD/AWD they are, some are not. Most in fact are easily accessible.

Use a correct drain plug gasket (likely composite on that car) and torque appropriately. A leak can be catastrophic.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Or
I would add that another good idea is to drop the pan on the 1st d/f and clean it out.


Pan? What pan? It's a Honda.

 

[Hall]

Another vote for a single drain-and-refill at a time. Repeat this every "x" thousand miles two more times (same time as an oil change would work out well). If you're not having any transmission problems, there's no need to do a 3x drain-and-refill.

Since you have the OEM fluid, go ahead and use it.

 

[Jimzz]

Just do a drain fill and then do it again at the next oil change.

I would say to use Valvoline maxlife or other good synthetic fluid but since you have the newer Honda stuff go ahead and use it.


I also use to be a tech and even ran my own shop. Changing the fluid will not kill a transmission. The damage is already done and changing the fluid will not change that. It will only slow down any future damage.

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
Originally Posted By: Or
I would add that another good idea is to drop the pan on the 1st d/f and clean it out.


Pan? What pan? It's a Honda.


Really? No pan? Notice in my post I said "I assume..." because I don't know the vehicle.

That's even worse than the "no dipstick" trend. As the (recently) late, great Col. Leo Thorsness would have said, "YGBSM!"

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: PaulyWally
and 2) I've heard from many mechanics, "never change the ATF in any vehicle if it hasn't been changed regularly" - and getting it explained in great technical detail why.


I see people say this, but you've actually heard it from "many" mechanics? I've actually never heard it from any mechanic, ever, only second-hand on Internet boards like this one.

I wondered about that statement over the years and researched it. There are several good explanations online to google.. What I concluded was/is.. "if" the transmission was in very bad shape, very black fluid, slipping, revving, etc. its likely too late for a fluid change, and changing fluid could "possibly" cause more problems than it solves. Because the worn out transmission clutch plates were only functioning because of the debris in the fluid. Remove the deris in the fluid, the old worn out parts slip even worse, party is over.

What I see is nothing close to that, but if you don't intervene now, it will end up where you are just hanging on, relying on particles and gunk to shift.. Do it now..

 

[dorcheat]

2010 Honda Civic owner here, the same generation as your Civic. It is high time for a drain and fill (D&F) on your Civic! Be advised that if indeed there has been no previous D&F, the current fluid is Honda Z-1 ATF. Drain the fluid on the bottom drain bolt while filling the fluid up to through the dipstick hole with a long neck funnel. Be sure the funnel is perfectly clean. Refill with two quarts and around six ounces for about 2.4 quarts.

Also inspect the drain plug: on the end of the drain plug there is a black magnet. You can see how much ferromagnetic material has accumulated on the magnet for a subjective estimate of how the transmission is wearing. Thoroughly clean this magnet with a paper towel for the next drain, fill, and inspection.

For my Civic, I performed three D&F's at 58,500 miles by driving a couple of miles around my neighborhood between each fill. I plan on doing three more D&F's with the next oil change on the Maintenance Minder (MM) at about 65,000 miles.