As to all the discussion about MMO

[demarpaint]

Thanks Ed, as I mentioned at least a dozen times I'm not one to log mpg any more so I can't comment much about mpg. I have however seen MMO's cleaning ability, and as you mentioned heard it quiet lifters down for myself and many friends over the years.

For me lousy mpg is a fact of life. My E-150 has the aerodynamics of a cinderblock. It is a work vehicle and a business necessity, mpg is not a strong point and I don't fret much over it. I need the van to move men and equipment, and it does quite well at that. There are people claiming to see slight mpg improvements, which is always a hot topic here, and is easy to dispute. Seeing and hearing however I feel can't be disputed, yet some people insist it can.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Mystic]

I doubt that MMO will disappear anytime soon. Too many people get some benefit from it, like lifters working smoothly again. There are reasons it is still on stor shelves. Of course, some people would like to see it disappear.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I doubt that MMO will disappear anytime soon. Too many people get some benefit from it, like lifters working smoothly again. There are reasons it is still on stor shelves. Of course, some people would like to see it disappear.


So is duralube and zmax. Can't recall anyone saying it, (MMO), will disappear. Or wish it would.

But some, probably many, wish a standard of claim acceptence higher than someone's butt dyno.

Or at least one that isn't cherry picked depending on whether one likes the product or not.

Benefits.... to quote GA "As you preceive them."

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
But some, probably many, wish a standard of claim acceptence higher than someone's butt dyno.

Or at least one that isn't cherry picked depending on whether one likes the product or not.

Benefits.... to quote GA "As you preceive them."


So when a person hears a lifter stop ticking only after the addition of MMO its butt dyno?

When a person sees sludge, adds MMO runs an OCI or two and its gone that's butt dyno?

What am I missing here? Even a respected member like Ed noted some positive results. Are we all wrong?

 

[Bamboooo]

Screw all the factual data! Butt dyno is good enough for me!!!!!!

 

[Trav]

Quote:
So when a person hears a lifter stop ticking only after the addition of MMO its butt dyno?

When a person sees sludge, adds MMO runs an OCI or two and its gone that's butt dyno?


Those are real results.
After 23 pages all i can say if someone is sceptical and has some sort of issues spend the $5 and draw your own conclusions then post about it.
If i can silence a noisy lifter for $5 its a great deal and the product worked IMO.
My eyes and ears are all the data i need, i believe them and trust them before anything written on paper.

 

[Trajan]

The bottom line is that outside of the testimonials of happy and satisfied customers, there isn't much support for using oil additives.

Of course, there are those millions of customers who buy the stuff: aren't they proof that these things really work? Not really. They're proof that this stuff really sells!

I don't care if you use them. Heck, I've used them. What I do care about is this Inquisition like response to us heretics who question all these "success stories."

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Trav
My eyes and ears are all the data i need, i believe them and trust them before anything written on paper.

Again, no one is disputing that.

The question is, do you trust a forum post about someone else's eyes and ears, from someone you've never even met, with nothing to back it up?

 

[Mystic]

I can often tell if someone is trying to mislead me. I got a bad feeling right away with the Synlube guy(or guys). In comparison, although I have never met demarpaint, he seems to me to be a reliable and honest guy.

And some products have some sort of independent testing. Or are made and promoted by some company we have heard of before. Most of us have probably heard of Turtle Wax. But when nobody could locate the alleged Synlube facility in Las Vegas people immediately became wary. Not to mention the fact that the alleged facility then was moved to a former town on a military reservation where no ordinary citizen can go.

I have seen con men and con behavior. Everybody has. You have to use common sense. There is the old saying, 'If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.'

In any case, for $5.00 a person can give MMO a try. If you have a noisy lifter and the lifter stops making noise, is there any possibility that the MMO was responsible for quieting the noise?

If you think all oil supplements are lies don't buy and don't use any of them. Occasionally I tell myself that I am going to stop using all supplements. But I always come back to the fact that some supplements seemed to have made a difference.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
So when a person hears a lifter stop ticking only after the addition of MMO its butt dyno?

When a person sees sludge, adds MMO runs an OCI or two and its gone that's butt dyno?


Those are real results.
After 23 pages all i can say if someone is sceptical and has some sort of issues spend the $5 and draw your own conclusions then post about it.
If i can silence a noisy lifter for $5 its a great deal and the product worked IMO.
My eyes and ears are all the data i need, i believe them and trust them before anything written on paper.


Me too Trav, especially when the written results are in the form of company provided test results and data. You nailed what I'm trying to convey here, I'm glad you agree. In fact thanks for posting about Kreen, it is a fantastic product that works!!

I trust my eyes and my ears. If people want to believe that here more power to them, for those who don't its their loss. I'll continue to reap the benefits of my experiments and observations. I will continue to share for those who care to read my posts. Until we have a section on this board where pictures, test results, data, etc. can be posted there isn't much else we can go by.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Trav

Those are real results.
After 23 pages all i can say if someone is skeptical and has some sort of issues spend the $5 and draw your own conclusions then post about it.
If i can silence a noisy lifter for $5 its a great deal and the product worked IMO.
My eyes and ears are all the data i need, i believe them and trust them before anything written on paper.

Actually, the cost of MMO is way less than $5, if you take into account 1 quart MMO is used in place of 1 quart of conventional oil in a 5 quarts sump. One quart of MMO is $3.xx at Walmart and conventional oil is $2.xx, so the cost of experience is more or less about $1.

Especially, if someone need to top-off 1 quart and like to try MMO near the end of an OCI, instead of 1 quart oil use 1 quart MMO. If after adding MMO and the engine doesn't behave as expected then just change oil a little early, that means minimal risk and minimum cost.

Someone mentioned Zmax, the reason not many people tried it because of cost. If it's $4-5 a bottle then someone may try it, including me. But at $25-30 or more a bottle, it's almost have to be a miracle fluid to get that money worth.

 

[Mystic]

Yes, that is right. It does replace the oil so MMO does not cost very much at all. Very cheap compared to some 'miracle' products people have talked about here.

And it gets even cheaper for the eternal skeptic. Don't use any oil supplements and just use whatever brand of motor oil you prefer.

Some people here make me think about the eternal UFO skeptics and debunkers. For a person who has seen a UFO the endless chanting of the skeptics and debunkers gets on the nerves. What the skeptics need to do is either do some actual field research, or find some other subject to talk about.

If I was a total skeptic about oil supplements I would not even visit this section. Occasionally I do think about dropping all supplements completely. But my actual personal experience (my 'field research') keeps bringing me back here. A few things have seemed to work from time to time. And I would never make a great eternal skeptic and debunker anyway. I am always curious about the endless possibilities. And I know that I don't know everything.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Trav

Those are real results.
After 23 pages all i can say if someone is skeptical and has some sort of issues spend the $5 and draw your own conclusions then post about it.
If i can silence a noisy lifter for $5 its a great deal and the product worked IMO.
My eyes and ears are all the data i need, i believe them and trust them before anything written on paper.

Actually, the cost of MMO is way less than $5, if you take into account 1 quart MMO is used in place of 1 quart of conventional oil in a 5 quarts sump. One quart of MMO is $3.xx at Walmart and conventional oil is $2.xx, so the cost of experience is more or less about $1.

Especially, if someone need to top-off 1 quart and like to try MMO near the end of an OCI, instead of 1 quart oil use 1 quart MMO. If after adding MMO and the engine doesn't behave as expected then just change oil a little early, that means minimal risk and minimum cost.

Someone mentioned Zmax, the reason not many people tried it because of cost. If it's $4-5 a bottle then someone may try it, including me. But at $25-30 or more a bottle, it's almost have to be a miracle fluid to get that money worth.


When you break the numbers down like that it is extremely cheap to try. In fact looking at the numbers it is about 25 times less than it's rival competitor. I'm disappointed I didn't crunch the numbers like you did, it makes it more affordable for use in the oil. LOL

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I can often tell if someone is trying to mislead me. I got a bad feeling right away with the Synlube guy(or guys). In comparison, although I have never met demarpaint, he seems to me to be a reliable and honest guy.

And some products have some sort of independent testing. Or are made and promoted by some company we have heard of before. Most of us have probably heard of Turtle Wax. But when nobody could locate the alleged Synlube facility in Las Vegas people immediately became wary. Not to mention the fact that the alleged facility then was moved to a former town on a military reservation where no ordinary citizen can go.

I have seen con men and con behavior. Everybody has. You have to use common sense. There is the old saying, 'If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.'

So, if a forum post gives zero evidence but doesn't seem fraudulent in any way, you believe what it says?

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I can often tell if someone is trying to mislead me. I got a bad feeling right away with the Synlube guy(or guys).



The only reason all that was found is because, wait for it.............. the testimonials were...........questioned.

 

[Mystic]

I have had a lot of personal conversation with demarpaint. If he is a dishonest guy he hides it very well. I am fairly perceptive about people.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I have had a lot of personal conversation with demarpaint. If he is a dishonest guy he hides it very well. I am fairly perceptive about people.


I guess my shill skills have been perfected! Thanks! Don't forget I sold used cars too. LOL

All kidding aside, thanks for the kind words Mystic.

 

[Mystic]

People could tell there was something fishy about the Synlube stuff. So they started to investigate. And it did not take them very long to smoke out the tall tales.

If demarpaint had been flat out lying about MMO, I think that would have been discovered quickly also. There are some smart people here. But other people have said basically the same things as demarpaint. You have people saying that the product seemed to work and quieted tappets, etc. As far as MMO is concerned, most of the 'testimonials' seem to have been positive. A few have been negative where people obtained no results. The Synlube guys kept promising VOAs and UOAs and those VOAs and UOAs never showed up.

So you have questioned the testimonials about MMO, but other people have come forward saying that they also obtained positive results. When the testimonials are questioned but people keep showing up with positive results, what does that say? When the Synlube testimonials were questioned and nobody came forward with positive results, and in fact people could not locate the Synlube facility in Las Vegas, that indicates something else, right? I don't see where anybody has been able to demonstrate that deparpaint has been dishonest and actually did not obtain positive results with MMO. Instead people have come forward saying they also obtained positive results.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Mystic

If demarpaint had been flat out lying about MMO, I think that would have been discovered quickly also. There are some smart people here.


So who said he is? Flat out or not?

You're not getting it.

The salient point is this. Why should we take someone at their word when they make claims? Why have different standards?

Because a "respected member" says it? Then everyone should be using zmax and arx. A respected member uses the former, and quite successfully to all accounts. Pilots I know in person, not anonymous posters on an internet forum, swear by it.

The cost is of no consequence. Not if people here are going to continue to play the "respected member" card.

Arx. "Respected members" used it successfully. Even some of the site owners here. Again, going by the "respected member" cry, everyone should be using it. And again, the cost is of no consequence.

If one want to post about all the "great things" an oil additive does, have at it. Despite the claim, no one is trying to oppress anything. Well, that's not exactly true. Considering how some are trying to oppress the more skeptical.

If one thinks that just because one posted it, that it is beyond scrutiny, then one is only deluding one's self.

 

[mechtech2]

It can be smart to use a product like MMO WITHOUT any sensations or wear testing.
Why?
Because it is a lube, and we can use it for fuel pump lubrication and top end lubing without sensory input.
Cleaning? What if our engines don't need it - we would not feel or experience anything with a product that KEEPS thing clean/cleaner.