Are New Vehicles Too Expensive?

[supton]

Meh, have to remember inflation.

Remind me again, what was median income vs median car prices 20 years ago? 30? etc.

IMO the only difference between now and 30 years ago is that so many people expect to have top of the line. And automakers have cued in on the fact that if they just outfit all their cars with the bells and whistles, then it gets cheaper to make said bells and whistles, and then the idea of what "loaded" is changes. 30 years ago power windows was just starting to no longer be luxury.

 

[Andrew1972]

Prices definitely climbed however many CUVs and even compact cars rival luxury cars 10 years ago in amenities and former luxury items.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Originally Posted by grampi
Vehicle prices have been overbloated for years...when compact cars hit the $20K mark, that's ridiculous...


Lots of technology in those $20K compact cars.



To me it's just built-in obsolescence...


Unbelievable.........

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by kawie_guy


True. But the ones who do affect the rest of us in loan rates, insurance, gas prices, etc etc. We live in a society.

Look, the question is have vehicles gotten too expensive. The bottom line is this: I would say that they have if the price has nearly doubled, and the average working class person's income has stayed the same.



That's one of the potential downsides to living in a still somewhat Free Society.



Gee....I guess if wasn't for people "living beyond their means" I would have gotten a cheaper loan than 2.9% from a credit union (located in California) who refinanced my truck in Utah? The travesty........


You might have. I got the lowest price offered by any Dealer in the lower 48, and even though initially I was going to buy outright, I went with the 0% APR offer.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Originally Posted by grampi
Vehicle prices have been overbloated for years...when compact cars hit the $20K mark, that's ridiculous...


Lots of technology in those $20K compact cars.



To me it's just built-in obsolescence...


Unbelievable.........


What's unbelievable? It's been happening for years. Car makers build all of these high tech electronics into their vehicles, then after 10 years or so they stop making them as replacement parts, so as the electronics start failing in these vehicles, you're forced to buy a new vehicle, or a newer used one. What's unbelievable is they're getting away with it...

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted by grampi


What's unbelievable? It's been happening for years. Car makers build all of these high tech electronics into their vehicles, then after 10 years or so they stop making them as replacement parts, so as the electronics start failing in these vehicles, you're forced to buy a new vehicle, or a newer used one. What's unbelievable is they're getting away with it...

You're buying a car, not a house. Cars are disposable goods with a finite lifespan. Consumer needs change over time. You're in the minority for wanting a car to be kept forever.

 

[CKN]

To me it's just built-in obsolescence...
[/quote]

Unbelievable.........[/quote]

What's unbelievable? It's been happening for years. Car makers build all of these high tech electronics into their vehicles, then after 10 years or so they stop making them as replacement parts, so as the electronics start failing in these vehicles, you're forced to buy a new vehicle, or a newer used one. What's unbelievable is they're getting away with it...
[/quote]

Computer controls have been around since the 70's. ECM/ECU/TCM modules last longer than the mechanical parts they are managing. TO say they fail within 10 years is silly. The ECM that sits under my driver's seat-is subject to extreme heat/extreme cold/plenty of vibration. They are not any where as fragile as your post indicates.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by kawie_guy


True. But the ones who do affect the rest of us in loan rates, insurance, gas prices, etc etc. We live in a society.

Look, the question is have vehicles gotten too expensive. The bottom line is this: I would say that they have if the price has nearly doubled, and the average working class person's income has stayed the same.



That's one of the potential downsides to living in a still somewhat Free Society.



Gee....I guess if wasn't for people "living beyond their means" I would have gotten a cheaper loan than 2.9% from a credit union (located in California) who refinanced my truck in Utah? The travesty........


You might have. I got the lowest price offered by any Dealer in the lower 48, and even though initially I was going to buy outright, I went with the 0% APR offer.

Great-but they 0% interest rate (I assume) is not really a "market rate"-that rate is subsidized by the manufacturer. In other words-you couldn't go in to a bank, credit union, etc and obtain that rate-without it being subsidized-since 0% is less than what they pay the Federal Bank for the money.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted by CKN

Great-but they 0% interest rate (I assume) is not really a "market rate"-that rate is subsidized by the manufacturer. In other words-you couldn't go in to a bank, credit union, etc and obtain that rate-without it being subsidized-since 0% is less than what they pay the Federal Bank for the money.


Yes, it was a manufacturer promotion. As I said, I had planned to just buy it outright. But with the lowest price that any Dealer was willing to accept, AND with 0% APR available, it was a no-brainer to finance it.

I'm not sure why you originally quoted me anyway. My comment to kawie_guy was simply that in our Society, the actions of others can for good or bad, affect us.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by CKN

To me it's just built-in obsolescence...


Unbelievable.........[/quote]

What's unbelievable? It's been happening for years. Car makers build all of these high tech electronics into their vehicles, then after 10 years or so they stop making them as replacement parts, so as the electronics start failing in these vehicles, you're forced to buy a new vehicle, or a newer used one. What's unbelievable is they're getting away with it...
[/quote]

Computer controls have been around since the 70's. ECM/ECU/TCM modules last longer than the mechanical parts they are managing. TO say they fail within 10 years is silly. The ECM that sits under my driver's seat-is subject to extreme heat/extreme cold/plenty of vibration. They are not any where as fragile as your post indicates.[/quote]

Let's look at 97-04 Corvettes as just one example. They have an electronic part called an EBCM. It controls anti-lock brakes, traction control, and active handling. Not all of these components go out, but a lot of them did and still do, and some within just a few years. These parts are no longer made, and the 97-00 models can't even be replaced. Built-in obsolescence...

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by grampi
Let's look at 97-04 Corvettes as just one example. They have an electronic part called an EBCM. It controls anti-lock brakes, traction control, and active handling. Not all of these components go out, but a lot of them did and still do, and some within just a few years. These parts are no longer made, and the 97-00 models can't even be replaced. Built-in obsolescence...

Might that be single point data?

Automakers are required by law to make spares for 10 years. That's pretty generous if you ask me--what computer, cell phone, lumber yard, whatever--what other companies are required to ensure spare parts for that long?

People who own, let alone seek out, 10+ year old cars are a minority.

But if you like, sure it's obsolescence. I presume you are still scrounging tubes for your black and white TV? Surfing BITOG on your Amiga? Upset that you can no longer send telegrams?

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted by supton

People who own, let alone seek out, 10+ year old cars are a minority.


The average car on the road is over 11 years old

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted by supton

People who own, let alone seek out, 10+ year old cars are a minority.


The average car on the road is over 11 years old

I would wager the average car on BITOG is older than that. How many times does someone come on here with a "computer" (engine control, transmission control, etc) ISSUE? SURE IT HAPPENS....BUT NOT OFTEN.

There are some on here that would go back to Carburetors, points,plugs, and condensers, so they would have to maintain these items every 12,000 miles.

 

[GMFan]

Quote
And the number of vehicles delivering $1,000-a-month payments has never been higher, he said..


That's a mortgage payment!

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by GMFan
Quote
And the number of vehicles delivering $1,000-a-month payments has never been higher, he said..


That's a mortgage payment!




In some places that would be a cheap mortgage. $1000 a month around Seattle will get you a bedspace in a crime and drug infested neighborhood.

 

[Andrew1972]

When my wife got our 2018 Tiguan 4motion I was elated with the level of tech (smartphone integration into 8" touchscreen that shows Google Maps), safety features and relative comfort (leatherette seats) and room(5 pass comfortable and 7 in a pinch) it offered for $27k OTD. I don't think this was possible to get all this at this adjusted for inflation price point unless you jumped to highest end luxury CUV cost far more 10 years ago.

She actually avoided used CUV's due to the lack of any of the smartphone integrations she liked and incredible easy 8" touch screen. Bummer Mazda CX-5 was behind the times because that was my favorite albeit tiny.

I am the few who likes the $20k-$25k price range and what a base to mid level model now offers. In the past YUCK, no interest in even purchasing the stuff.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted by supton

People who own, let alone seek out, 10+ year old cars are a minority.


The average car on the road is over 11 years old

May be true but if I had to wager, most of those vehicles have been with the same owner for several years. The remainder were found at buy here, pay here lots. Not too many people are deliberately seeking out old cars--many say it, but how many really do purchase old cars?

My opinion: Most people don't know what end of a screwdriver to hold. Our fleet average age is going up is a testament to how far the makers have come, not because the average owner is actually dedicated to keeping their vehicle on the road.

 

[4WD]

I think my dealerships have just as many used cars on the lot as new units … and being many of the beaters head down to Mexico these used cars/trucks will be feedstock for the decade old average on the streets …
(people buy these on 5 year loans often)
I have mentioned the average age several times when extended OCI -vs- warranty comes up … we have been north of 10 years for a good while …

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by grampi
Let's look at 97-04 Corvettes as just one example. They have an electronic part called an EBCM. It controls anti-lock brakes, traction control, and active handling. Not all of these components go out, but a lot of them did and still do, and some within just a few years. These parts are no longer made, and the 97-00 models can't even be replaced. Built-in obsolescence...

Might that be single point data?

Automakers are required by law to make spares for 10 years. That's pretty generous if you ask me--what computer, cell phone, lumber yard, whatever--what other companies are required to ensure spare parts for that long?

People who own, let alone seek out, 10+ year old cars are a minority.

But if you like, sure it's obsolescence. I presume you are still scrounging tubes for your black and white TV? Surfing BITOG on your Amiga? Upset that you can no longer send telegrams?


Getting a little carried away, are we? Just because I don't like the fact that cars can become unusable just because certain replacement parts can't be found is hardly equivalent to wanting to go back to the days of telegrams and black and white TVs...

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by grampi
Let's look at 97-04 Corvettes as just one example. They have an electronic part called an EBCM. It controls anti-lock brakes, traction control, and active handling. Not all of these components go out, but a lot of them did and still do, and some within just a few years. These parts are no longer made, and the 97-00 models can't even be replaced. Built-in obsolescence...

Might that be single point data?

Automakers are required by law to make spares for 10 years. That's pretty generous if you ask me--what computer, cell phone, lumber yard, whatever--what other companies are required to ensure spare parts for that long?

People who own, let alone seek out, 10+ year old cars are a minority.

But if you like, sure it's obsolescence. I presume you are still scrounging tubes for your black and white TV? Surfing BITOG on your Amiga? Upset that you can no longer send telegrams?


Getting a little carried away, are we? Just because I don't like the fact that cars can become unusable just because certain replacement parts can't be found is hardly equivalent to wanting to go back to the days of telegrams and black and white TVs...

No less carried away than you. Vettes have little to do with common pedestrian commuters, and are more like high end cars where such problems exist (lack of spares). Don't like the risk then don't buy a 'vette or anything similar. Just stick with vehicles that were churned out in the millions--spares will always abound. And when those spares aren't in common supply--it's time to move on, there's a reason why the spares are gone.