Are New Vehicles Too Expensive?

Messages
6,727
Location
Lake Havasu City, Arizona
Originally Posted by kawie_guy
..... America runs on it's middle class, and when the buying power of the middle class is reduced, we have problems.
But that's just it, they're not having problems selling these things. The bottom isn't falling out of the high priced truck and car market. They're selling them left and right. At some point it might slow down for a while. But that's to be expected. Every good new car market is followed by a bad one, just like real estate. I've been listening to real estate "experts" talk for the last 30 years how the bottom is going to drop out of the Southern California real estate market. Because of how over priced the homes have become. They said it when 1,100 sq. ft. homes were $250K, 20 years ago. Now those same homes are selling for $450K+. They just keep going up. In spite of the fact a lot of the big paying jobs have gone away. People said the bottom would fall out of the stock market when it hit 20,000. It hasn't. We've been hearing how the middle class is being squeezed out of existence for how many years now? Yet they're living better than ever. Consumer confidence was at an 18 year high just 3 months ago. It may taper off for a while. But the world isn't going to stop turning. People will just have to be smarter with their money. Fuel prices will hurt sales of these thing far more than the high purchase prices. And gas has been cheap for a while now. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/c...-year-high-near-all-time-peak-2018-09-25
 
Messages
6,738
Location
Los Gatos, CA
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by kawie_guy
..... America runs on it's middle class, and when the buying power of the middle class is reduced, we have problems.
But that's just it, they're not having problems selling these things. The bottom isn't falling out of the high priced truck and car market. They're selling them left and right. At some point it might slow down for a while. But that's to be expected. Every good new car market is followed by a bad one, just like real estate. I've been listening to real estate "experts" talk for the last 30 years how the bottom is going to drop out of the Southern California real estate market. Because of how over priced the homes have become. They said it when 1,100 sq. ft. homes were $250K, 20 years ago. Now those same homes are selling for $450K+. They just keep going up. In spite of the fact a lot of the big paying jobs have gone away. People said the bottom would fall out of the stock market when it hit 20,000. It hasn't. We've been hearing how the middle class is being squeezed out of existence for how many years now? Yet they're living better than ever. Consumer confidence was at an 18 year high just 3 months ago. It may taper off for a while. But the world isn't going to stop turning. People will just have to be smarter with their money. Fuel prices will hurt sales of these thing far more than the high purchase prices. And gas has been cheap for a while now. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/c...-year-high-near-all-time-peak-2018-09-25
Consumer confidence is a funny thing. It generally means people feel safe spending and that they think their incomes will rise in the future. Waaaay too many Americans have little to nothing saved for the future. These high consumer confidence numbers show many people are financially irresponsible. Hope is a lousy strategy. Fortune
 
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Messages
26
Location
Michigan
Prices are insane. My 2003 Dodge 3500 is slowly rusting to pieces and I went a lookin at new one ton trucks. Bought the 03 new for $38 K out the door Laramie with 5.9 Cummins and I questioned my sanity then. I actually need and use a HD truck hauling horses hay landscape material and our travel trailer - it doesn't have an easy life. Equivalent new truck is like $70K - nuts! And I would really hesitate to buy one of these new diesels - just doesn't pencil out like it used too and they are just too complicated now. I kept my dodge and bought a mint low mileage dually GMC 3500 with 8.1 for $12 K cash called it good. Does everything I need.
 
Messages
6,727
Location
Lake Havasu City, Arizona
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Consumer confidence is a funny thing. It generally means people feel safe spending and that they think their incomes will rise in the future. Waaaay too many Americans have little to nothing saved for the future. These high consumer confidence numbers show many people are financially irresponsible. Hope is a lousy strategy.
I agree with you 100%. The bulk of Americans act like irresponsible idiots financially. With that said, the auto makers could care less as long as they are warm, willing, and able to finance their lives away. Just so they can be the first on their block to have a truck with the most do dads on it. The question then becomes, how long will they last before they end up in bankruptcy court? And, will it eventually happen to enough of them to crash the car market.... Or worse the economy? Look at what they did to the housing market in 2008-2009. They managed to create a pretty substantial train wreck of the entire real estate market nationwide. And now they, along with these same idiot lenders, are right back at it. Loaning large sums of money to these same nit wits, most of which won't be able to pay it back if the same thing happens again. Because they're coming in with little to nothing down. Right back to having, "No skin in the game". And there is zero reason to believe it won't be a repeat performance. The question then becomes when? What surprises me with all of this, is the amount of financial abuse our whole economy can take. Between out of control government spending, along with a citizenry who is every bit as financially inept as the people they elect, it appears to be tougher than Mike Tyson in a 10 round bout. But even Iron Mike lost once and a while.
 

4WD

Messages
16,797
Location
Texas
Yep … BiL got laid off (hired back later) and did a year selling cars … He said the most common technical question was: "What's it take down and how much a month" …
 
Messages
694
Location
USA
Had a 2002 Civic I bought used with 30K on it for $11500 and owned for 14 years. Bought a brand new Corolla with 100 times more features for $15200 after mfr rebate stuff Can't say they're too expensive. Now, pickups and SUVs? Holy moly. Ridiculous. And it's because people pay whatever for them. Waste of money as a daily driver. Total profit margin makers. It has more to do with what car you want/need than anything else.
 
Messages
694
Location
USA
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Consumer confidence is a funny thing. It generally means people feel safe spending and that they think their incomes will rise in the future. Waaaay too many Americans have little to nothing saved for the future. These high consumer confidence numbers show many people are financially irresponsible. Hope is a lousy strategy.
I agree with you 100%. The bulk of Americans act like irresponsible idiots financially. With that said, the auto makers could care less as long as they are warm, willing, and able to finance their lives away. Just so they can be the first on their block to have a truck with the most do dads on it. The question then becomes, how long will they last before they end up in bankruptcy court? And, will it eventually happen to enough of them to crash the car market.... Or worse the economy? Look at what they did to the housing market in 2008-2009. They managed to create a pretty substantial train wreck of the entire real estate market nationwide. And now they, along with these same idiot lenders, are right back at it. Loaning large sums of money to these same nit wits, most of which won't be able to pay it back if the same thing happens again. Because they're coming in with little to nothing down. Right back to having, "No skin in the game". And there is zero reason to believe it won't be a repeat performance. The question then becomes when? What surprises me with all of this, is the amount of financial abuse our whole economy can take. Between out of control government spending, along with a citizenry who is every bit as financially inept as the people they elect, it appears to be tougher than Mike Tyson in a 10 round bout. But even Iron Mike lost once and a while.
+150
 

4WD

Messages
16,797
Location
Texas
Or if you are a DIY builder/landscaper who is also an outdoors type (hunter, fisherman, RV, boats, off roading, camper) …
 
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Messages
694
Location
USA
Originally Posted by 4WD
Or if you are a DIY builder/landscaper who is also an outdoors type (hunter, fisherman, RV, boats, off roading, camper) …
If it's a business necessity, that's different. I drove thousands of miles in a Civic pheasant hunting, duck hunting, and fishing. Also camped in a tent. Very frugal. I see $50k campers pulled by $80k diesels every day on the freeway with dune buggies on a trailer. All that debt could be a couple million or more with 5-8% returns, instead of payments to the bank. And I doubt most paid cash for their fun. Or, maybe I'm just poor or something...lol
 

4WD

Messages
16,797
Location
Texas
different world in my coastal marsh … would not advise a trip my camp in a small car … if it rains, going to get stuck … if it goes under water no way … maybe after a dry spell and you did not need that muffler … In Houston … I always called them mall crawlers … and one of my engineers always laughed at Son in Laws big truck … guess who came to rescue him right before he turned off the breaker with fridge and freezer full of food …
 
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Messages
11,656
Location
Illinois
Originally Posted by Dudemanmaximus
Prices are insane. My 2003 Dodge 3500 is slowly rusting to pieces and I went a lookin at new one ton trucks. Bought the 03 new for $38 K out the door Laramie with 5.9 Cummins and I questioned my sanity then. I actually need and use a HD truck hauling horses hay landscape material and our travel trailer - it doesn't have an easy life. Equivalent new truck is like $70K - nuts! And I would really hesitate to buy one of these new diesels - just doesn't pencil out like it used too and they are just too complicated now. I kept my dodge and bought a mint low mileage dually GMC 3500 with 8.1 for $12 K cash called it good. Does everything I need.
I know it seems like a lot, but doubling in price in 16 years isn't an insane rate of price increase. That's less than a 3.5% annual rate of increase. Maybe a bit higher than inflation. But then, I think you are getting more vehicle. Now, that's not saying you NEED more vehicle features. But the point remains that regardless how it feels or seems, prices really are not outstripping inflation.
 
Messages
1,373
Location
south dakota
Originally Posted by Smokescreen
I love it when people buy new....it allows me to swoop in and buy it slightly used 3-5 years later after the original owner absorbed the largest part of the depreciation. thankyou
I totally agree with this!
 
Messages
26
Location
Michigan
Well at least in my case my income has not increased 3.5% per year! As far as diesels go when I bought my 03 diesel was $1.10 per gallon and i estimated it would take 75000 miles to break even for the Cummins diesel option. At the time I had a 4 horse living quartes gooseneck that when filled with 4 horses tack hay and water I reckon pushed 15K lbs and I felt the diesel was needed. My girls are grown up and we don't do the horseshows anymore so I sold the big LG trailer and got a smaller 3H gooseneck for my wife to haul the horses around if she wants. I have not done the math but it is likely it takes more miles now to pencil out. Seems like the new diesels are more complex and more expensive to maintain. One repair can set you back thousands - had to put in new injectors at 160K miles was over $3K. Seems like for many commercial guys the diesels don't pencil out anymore unless you need truely massive towing power. I would just buy a gasser now - but I would not buy new!
 

CKN

Messages
6,454
Location
Utah
Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by kawie_guy
True. But the ones who do affect the rest of us in loan rates, insurance, gas prices, etc etc. We live in a society. Look, the question is have vehicles gotten too expensive. The bottom line is this: I would say that they have if the price has nearly doubled, and the average working class person's income has stayed the same.
That's one of the potential downsides to living in a still somewhat Free Society.
Gee....I guess if wasn't for people "living beyond their means" I would have gotten a cheaper loan than 2.9% from a credit union (located in California) who refinanced my truck in Utah? The travesty........
 
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wtd

Messages
2,693
Location
southwest Mo.
I think new vehicles are too expensive and have been for awhile. People keep buying these expensive vehicles because the lending institutions are making it possible by increasing the amount of months you can finance a vehicle for. Leases have also contributed to this. This is why I keep driving all of the older vehicles you see in my signature. I don't want all of the extra crap they put in vehicles these days and all of that stuff will just be a repair nightmare down the road. I would love to have a new truck but I won't pay the going prices for one. I don't see an end in sight. They will continue to increase in price and people will find a way to buy them.
 
Messages
10,138
Location
OH
Vehicle prices have been overbloated for years...when compact cars hit the $20K mark, that's ridiculous...
 
Messages
24,382
Location
Central Florida
Originally Posted by grampi
Vehicle prices have been overbloated for years...when compact cars hit the $20K mark, that's ridiculous...
Lots of technology in those $20K compact cars.
 
Messages
10,138
Location
OH
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Originally Posted by grampi
Vehicle prices have been overbloated for years...when compact cars hit the $20K mark, that's ridiculous...
Lots of technology in those $20K compact cars.
To me it's just built-in obsolescence...
 
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