AR-style rifle -- suggestions

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I want to pick up a .223 AR-style rifle in the near future. I don't have a great deal of knowledge/experience with them, other than shooting other people's a bunch. Ideally would like to find something in the sub $800 range. Rugar AR-556 is one I'm looking at, but there's also Springfield Armory and Smith & Wesson M&P Sport II to consider. I haven't seen any others, but would like to know if there's others that are comparable.

Are there any features or attributes that separate one from the other, or are these essentially the same thing from a different manufacturer? Very curious if there's something that sets one or the other apart and might make it a better value. I assume they're all similar in that they can be upgraded-- i.e replacing the upper & lowers and customize with sight rails and such, is this correct? Any help would be appreciated.
 
I have all three you mention, all solid value shooters. Look at online deals, right now can get S&W for $449, Ruger for $479, and the Saint for $619, all with free freight and no tax.
 
https://www.usa-gun-shop.com/5-best-ar15s-500-less-cheap-guns-for-sale/

Quote

AR-15s For $500: Low Budget AR-15s That Work
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DMPS Oracle A3 - A Cheap AR-15 that works
1. DPMS Oracle A3


https://www.brownells.com/firearms/...=yd3xN9U88xyJRFjwUx0Mo382UklUPfRkET9pVs0

[Linked Image]
 
Get a rifle that is rated to shoot 5.56. 5.56 is slightly higher compression and the specs for 5.56 and .223 are almost identical. A 5.56 rifle can shoot both 5.56 and .223. I have a S&W Sport and shoot the cheap Russian ammo.

You can also worry about twist rate. I don't think it will make any difference.

You'll need a good Youtube video to learn how to field strip it and clean it. I use a .22 bore snake but you can decide what you want to use.

You'll have to decide what kind of sights you want. I like the red dot sight.
 
It is kind of hard to buy a "bad" AR-15.

Even my cheap $399 "day after thanksgiving" special DPMS Panther is a fun and accurate plinker (with a junky trigger, though)

I don't know your budget..... But I would look for something with a "mid-length" gas system.
I personally don't like the "carbine length" gas system much (the majority of them)

I also think M4 barrel profiles are just plain stupid.
 
Originally Posted by Leo99
Get a rifle that is rated to shoot 5.56. 5.56 is slightly higher compression and the specs for 5.56 and .223 are almost identical. A 5.56 rifle can shoot both 5.56 and .223. I have a S&W Sport and shoot the cheap Russian ammo.

You can also worry about twist rate. I don't think it will make any difference.

You'll need a good Youtube video to learn how to field strip it and clean it. I use a .22 bore snake but you can decide what you want to use.

You'll have to decide what kind of sights you want. I like the red dot sight.


In general, I agree with your post with two nit-picky exceptions. First, I agree, get a rifle chambered in 5.56 vice .223 but your thoughts on the pressures are askew. Second, twist rate is important since correct bullet weight for intended use directly correlates to twist rate and bullet performance; agreeing that the common twist rates of 1:7-1:9 will work for most bullets in most applications...generally.
 
First we should probably clarify:

Do you actually mean "rifle" (IE 20" barrel) or are you looking at carbines (16ish" barrel)

The answer in both cases is Colt, I recognize they are 20-40% above your price point. but Colt and HK are the closest to "mil-spec" you can get without enlisting. The details will be correct.

Have a read through:

https://forum.officer.com/forum/equipment-tactical/firearms/83550-so-you-want-to-buy-an-ar-15-huh

It is somewhat dated (for instance Colt now uses std recover pins) but full of good information.
 
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The guns you mentioned and the PSA mentioned above are all good-value options.
Only advice I'd add is heed what others have said: Go with a true 5.56 chambering.
Personally, I run a Colt LE 6920 and, to be honest, the extra coin dropped on it has proven worth it to me. It has been a smooth running, nice printing little beastie even on the Lake City bulk 55 and 62-grain offerings.
Enjoy.
 
Originally Posted by GeorgeKaplan
Originally Posted by Leo99
Get a rifle that is rated to shoot 5.56. 5.56 is slightly higher compression and the specs for 5.56 and .223 are almost identical. A 5.56 rifle can shoot both 5.56 and .223. I have a S&W Sport and shoot the cheap Russian ammo.

You can also worry about twist rate. I don't think it will make any difference.

You'll need a good Youtube video to learn how to field strip it and clean it. I use a .22 bore snake but you can decide what you want to use.

You'll have to decide what kind of sights you want. I like the red dot sight.


In general, I agree with your post with two nit-picky exceptions. First, I agree, get a rifle chambered in 5.56 vice .223 but your thoughts on the pressures are askew. Second, twist rate is important since correct bullet weight for intended use directly correlates to twist rate and bullet performance; agreeing that the common twist rates of 1:7-1:9 will work for most bullets in most applications...generally.



This is from Cheaper Than Dirt:

.223 vs. 5.56 NATO: Cartridges
The .223 Remington is a sporting cartridge with the same external dimensions as the 5.56x45mm NATO military cartridge. It is loaded with a .224-inch diameter jacketed bullet, with weights ranging from roughly 40 to 90 grains (the 55-grain being the most popular). Pressure is the primary difference separating the .223 Remington and 5.56x45mm.

The .223s are loaded to lower pressures and velocities compared to 5.56mm. Due to its lower pressure, you can safely fire .223 Rem. ammunition in a 5.56mm chambered gun; however, the same cannot be said in reverse.

The 5.56x45mm ammo creates higher pressure. This over-pressure will frequently cause difficult extraction, flowing brass or popped primers. In extreme cases, the over-pressure could damage or destroy the rifle and injure the operator.


Regarding twist rate: thanks for your clarification. I assumed barrels only come in 1.7 - 1.9 and I've read people arguing over which is better within that range.
 
Originally Posted by Roadkingnc
I have a ruger 556, I can hit clay pigeons at 300 yards with it.

I too own a Ruger 556 (8500). It's the only one that I own that I didn't build myself. And, it's a great shooter!
Someone on the interweb is selling Sport II's for $449. That too is a good black evil rifle.
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted by Roadkingnc
I have a ruger 556, I can hit clay pigeons at 300 yards with it.


Offhand, iron sights, 20 mph crosswind, 100% hits?
wink.gif
Can't go wrong with the Ruger.

Great time to buy an EBR.
 
Originally Posted by Leo99
Originally Posted by GeorgeKaplan
Originally Posted by Leo99
Get a rifle that is rated to shoot 5.56. 5.56 is slightly higher compression and the specs for 5.56 and .223 are almost identical. A 5.56 rifle can shoot both 5.56 and .223. I have a S&W Sport and shoot the cheap Russian ammo.

You can also worry about twist rate. I don't think it will make any difference.

You'll need a good Youtube video to learn how to field strip it and clean it. I use a .22 bore snake but you can decide what you want to use.

You'll have to decide what kind of sights you want. I like the red dot sight.


In general, I agree with your post with two nit-picky exceptions. First, I agree, get a rifle chambered in 5.56 vice .223 but your thoughts on the pressures are askew. Second, twist rate is important since correct bullet weight for intended use directly correlates to twist rate and bullet performance; agreeing that the common twist rates of 1:7-1:9 will work for most bullets in most applications...generally.



This is from Cheaper Than Dirt:

.223 vs. 5.56 NATO: Cartridges
The .223 Remington is a sporting cartridge with the same external dimensions as the 5.56x45mm NATO military cartridge. It is loaded with a .224-inch diameter jacketed bullet, with weights ranging from roughly 40 to 90 grains (the 55-grain being the most popular). Pressure is the primary difference separating the .223 Remington and 5.56x45mm.

The .223s are loaded to lower pressures and velocities compared to 5.56mm. Due to its lower pressure, you can safely fire .223 Rem. ammunition in a 5.56mm chambered gun; however, the same cannot be said in reverse.

The 5.56x45mm ammo creates higher pressure. This over-pressure will frequently cause difficult extraction, flowing brass or popped primers. In extreme cases, the over-pressure could damage or destroy the rifle and injure the operator.


Regarding twist rate: thanks for your clarification. I assumed barrels only come in 1.7 - 1.9 and I've read people arguing over which is better within that range.


IIRC, it isn't the load pressure spec that's necessarily the problem, it's that the 5.56 chamber is larger in many key dimensions which leads to overall lower pressure. The other issue is that the pressure measurement method isn't the same:

Quote
Because SAAMI specifies that pressures must be measured one way and the military specifies that they must be measured a different way, a direct comparison of pressure results from one lot of 5.56 ammo (measured the US Military way) with another lot of .223 ammo (measure the SAAMI way) is not possible. It's required to test both with the same methods, instrumentation, and chamber to see any real differences.


From here:
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

That article's a good read, and he tested 5.56 ammo in a .223 chamber and actually measured the pressures in 2x 5.56 rifles and one .223 one.
 
Originally Posted by Leo99
Originally Posted by GeorgeKaplan
Originally Posted by Leo99
Get a rifle that is rated to shoot 5.56. 5.56 is slightly higher compression and the specs for 5.56 and .223 are almost identical. A 5.56 rifle can shoot both 5.56 and .223. I have a S&W Sport and shoot the cheap Russian ammo.

You can also worry about twist rate. I don't think it will make any difference.

You'll need a good Youtube video to learn how to field strip it and clean it. I use a .22 bore snake but you can decide what you want to use.

You'll have to decide what kind of sights you want. I like the red dot sight.


In general, I agree with your post with two nit-picky exceptions. First, I agree, get a rifle chambered in 5.56 vice .223 but your thoughts on the pressures are askew. Second, twist rate is important since correct bullet weight for intended use directly correlates to twist rate and bullet performance; agreeing that the common twist rates of 1:7-1:9 will work for most bullets in most applications...generally.



This is from Cheaper Than Dirt:

.223 vs. 5.56 NATO: Cartridges
The .223 Remington is a sporting cartridge with the same external dimensions as the 5.56x45mm NATO military cartridge. It is loaded with a .224-inch diameter jacketed bullet, with weights ranging from roughly 40 to 90 grains (the 55-grain being the most popular). Pressure is the primary difference separating the .223 Remington and 5.56x45mm.

The .223s are loaded to lower pressures and velocities compared to 5.56mm. Due to its lower pressure, you can safely fire .223 Rem. ammunition in a 5.56mm chambered gun; however, the same cannot be said in reverse.

The 5.56x45mm ammo creates higher pressure. This over-pressure will frequently cause difficult extraction, flowing brass or popped primers. In extreme cases, the over-pressure could damage or destroy the rifle and injure the operator.


Regarding twist rate: thanks for your clarification. I assumed barrels only come in 1.7 - 1.9 and I've read people arguing over which is better within that range.


I disagree with your Cheaper Than Dirt link insofar is that it is a blanket statement. There is 5.56 available that is both higher and lower in pressure than .223. Not all .223 is the same either. As a rule of thumb, you shouldn't shoot 5.56 out of a rifle chambered in .223 if you don't know your pressures. However, it is done safely all the time.
 
Try and find a .223 rifle chamber these days. It's almost impossible. They ALL have 5.56 or Wylde chambers and have for decades. You had to pay attention in the 70's or 80's, but those days are behind us. It's not even worth mentioning any longer.

The Colt 6920 or 6720 is a good value, pretty close to your $800 budget. On the plus side, when (not if) the next AR15 gun scare occurs, your Colt rifle will be worth 2-3 times what your Smith Sport or Ruger rifle is worth. So yes, spend the extra $200-$300 now on a Colt, because of its future value over the other budget guns. I always highly recommend the pencil barrel Colt 6720 and think it's the ideal first or one and only carbine.
 
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