API SG? HUH???

[flatlandtacoma]

Those "pesky Chinese" as you call them didn't engineer anything on that engine. It is a direct copy of a Honda GX200. API SG was probably listed in the manual of the engine they copied way back when.

Its a great storyline for the conspiracy theory nuts though.

 

[NHHEMI]

Trust me this manual is not a copy of any Honda manual. This manual stinks! It looks like a 2 year old did it. No temp chart like that shown. There are a few lines of text about oil and what to use in what temps but they recommend the same exact oil for normal, low air, and frigid air.

I do feel I am on the correct track however after reading the Honda comments about using SJ/SL. I am very curious too hear what the mfg says, if anything, in response to my e-mail?

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: j_mac
I would think that a splash lubed engine could use as much ZDDP as possible.
Maybe thats the reason they want an SG.


That is actually my concern about using SM/SN.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: dparm
I was under the impression that SM & SN are 100% backwards compatible with older specs...?


They are for automotive use and in general theory. However, in the real world there has been some wear issues with older vehicles that require high levels of ZDDP at least with SM. High performance/muscle car engines with cam wear as a result of using SM oils. Small engines like the one in my generator take a beating so I want to be sure adequate protection is there from the oil.

 

[bigmike]

Well, if it were down here, I'd run Delo 15w40 or straight PYB HD30. I suppose you might need a lighter weight in case you run it in winter. I'd be tempted to go with Chevron Delo 0w30 or 5w40, or Rotella 10w30.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: bigmike
Well, if it were down here, I'd run Delo 15w40 or straight PYB HD30. I suppose you might need a lighter weight in case you run it in winter. I'd be tempted to go with Chevron Delo 0w30 or 5w40, or Rotella 10w30.


I agree with the above. If the machine is kept in heated storage, you don't need oil for cold start applications. Once it's running, it's at operating temps.

Lots of fretting over a simple little piece of OPE. My Champion came with an excellent manual. It recommends 5W30 for temps below 0 deg. F and 10W30 for temps above. It's got virtually the same engine and I'm running Shell 10W40 in it.
Why? Because that's what I had near by when I did the oil change.

By the way, when I did the 5 hour oil change, this was probably the cleanest engine I've ever worked on. I drained the oil through a coffee filter and there was no visible particulate in the oil. I was impressed with that.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: bigmike
Well, if it were down here, I'd run Delo 15w40 or straight PYB HD30. I suppose you might need a lighter weight in case you run it in winter. I'd be tempted to go with Chevron Delo 0w30 or 5w40, or Rotella 10w30.


I agree with the above. If the machine is kept in heated storage, you don't need oil for cold start applications. Once it's running, it's at operating temps.

Lots of fretting over a simple little piece of OPE. My Champion came with an excellent manual. It recommends 5W30 for temps below 0 deg. F and 10W30 for temps above. It's got virtually the same engine and I'm running Shell 10W40 in it.
Why? Because that's what I had near by when I did the oil change.

By the way, when I did the 5 hour oil change, this was probably the cleanest engine I've ever worked on. I drained the oil through a coffee filter and there was no visible particulate in the oil. I was impressed with that.


Champion and Lifan do not use the same engine. They may be similar but they are not the same thing. Champion builds their own engines( in China at their plant )for the most part although I have heard of them using some Kohler engines on some things. Lifan builds their own engines as well.

Quote:
Champion Power Equipment was founded in 2003. We are a US owned and operated company with our own manufacturing facilities in the Zhejiang province of China.

http://championpowerequipment.com/


I can't go by the manual from a different brand. My Lifan generator and your Champion generator are not the same thing so your owner's manual oil recommendations don't help me out much. This isn't a situation where 2 different items are the same thing under different brand names like Wix/Napa Gold oil filters. 2 different generators.

I need to go by the manual from my generator's mfg. I am happy your Champion manual is good. Doesn't help me with my Lifan. My generator comes with a 3 year warranty not a 1 year like most others. I want to be sure I follow Lifan's guidelines. I realize it is "just oil" but I want to use the right stuff. I want to here from them that it is ok to use SL or SM or SN not just assume. It isn't fretting over something silly it is due dilligence.

This generator will be kept outside in my unheated shed and mainly called upon during winter power outages. A 15W-40 is not in the cards. A 5W or 10W-30 is what I need and probably an SL will be what I use.

 

[Texan4Life]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Trust me this manual is not a copy of any Honda manual. This manual stinks! It looks like a 2 year old did it. No temp chart like that shown. There are a few lines of text about oil and what to use in what temps but they recommend the same exact oil for normal, low air, and frigid air.

I do feel I am on the correct track however after reading the Honda comments about using SJ/SL. I am very curious too hear what the mfg says, if anything, in response to my e-mail?


yeah chonda manuals do stink.. I meant maybe they just copied what oil to use... If concerned about ZDDP use an HDEO.

 

[boraticus]

Ah, yeah, it's becoming apparent that you're not very experienced when it comes to these Chinese clones.

Most, if not all of these 196cc Chonda engines are cloned from the famous Honda GX200, 196cc engine. I would be willing to bet that your Lifan and my Champion probably rolled off the same assembly line albeit with different name and paint job.

It would appear however, that the Champion branded products come with better literature, which would likely apply equally to both Lifan and Champion engines, particularly oil recommendations.

If you disagree with the above, I'd be interested to know what evidence you have that would differentiate a Lifan Chonda from a Champion Chonda other than colour and brand name?

If they are made in different plants, what is so technically different between the two engines that oil choice would be critically different?

 

[flatlandtacoma]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Champion and Lifan do not use the same engine. They may be similar but they are not the same thing. Champion builds their own engines... Lifan builds their own engines as well.


You can't find one part on the two engines that do not interchange. They are both direct copies of the Honda GX200.

These OPE engines do not have high spring pressures or any other reason to specify high levels of ZDDP.

I have lots of owners manuals from throughout the years that specify SE, SF, SG, SH, SJ, or SL. Sometimes they say "or later", most times they don't. Because it is REDUNDANT to specify "or later". Every new specification incorporates ALL of the requirements of all previous specs.

Take your tinfoil hat off.

 

[daman]

Well nothing wrong with a healthily dose of ZDDP that's for sure grab some HDEO and go!

cant believe were 2 pages in.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: Texan4Life
hmmm

Maybe it is because they copied the old honda gx owners manual?



Pretty much. I've read of several instances where people who used larger (11-16hp) Chondas commercially didn't have failures when they switched to 15w40. If this generator was going to be used for hours/days on end, that's what I'd use. FWIW, much of the Lifan or Zongchen (sp?) Chinese import ATVs spec 15w40 right on the machine.

Nice little machine BTW! Thing is, I just can't see spending more than ~$300-350 on a Chinese 3500 watt and that's shipped to the door. They're all the same. Something major goes wrong, you toss it out. The E-start cracks me up on most of these. Like the juice box sized 12v is going to be worth a poop (after it sits for awhile) for 90% of owners!

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: daman


cant believe were 2 pages in.

No kidding!!!

People come here ask for advice and are told exactly what they need to know. Then then challenge the advice?

Why ask in the first place?

 

[j_mac]

A good choice might be Mobil 1 Racing 4T or MX4T (same oil.) Its synthetic and intended for motorcycles. Motorcycles have their transmission gears lubed by the crankcase oil so you KNOW it would be a good splash lube oil. It also has the SG rating! You can find it at any Wal-Mart. Just beware that sometimes its not kept with all the other motor oil. I've often seen it a couple isles over near the air compressor accessories. Inexplicable.
I've got this oil in my simple, cheap Briggs lawnmower because I had just enough left over from my BMW K1200R. Seems to "like" it.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
I personally would use the same oil you use in your Ram 5.7 liter engine.


Thats 5W-20. They want a 30.


Most 5w20's are just barely under 30 on the viscosity charts. And I am sure in the Winter in NH a 20w would be a good choice as well as in the Summer. My 2 cents.

 

[dakota99]

I would just use like M1 5w30 HM, it's SL and has good low temp props.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: boraticus


People come here ask for advice and are told exactly what they need to know. Then then challenge the advice?

Why ask in the first place?


ok...

I guess all I can say to that is you have NOT told me exactly what I need to know because you continue to tell me what to do based on your Champion generator manual. I have a Lifan. If you posted info from Lifan about my model then I certainly would take what you posted as exactly what I need to know. You have not done that however sir.

2nd I am not challenging any advice given in response here about my Lifan generator and the specific question I asked about oil ratings and weight. Problem is very little if any specific advice for my generator brand/model has been given. It is for Honda, Champion, etc...

I understand that you believe that your Champion generator and my Lifan have motors so identical that parts will interchange and that they probably rolled off the same assembly line. You may well be right too as far as them being the same basic motor. I freely admit I don't know a ton about these small engines which is why I asked. I am not trying to ask a question about something I already know what I will do. I hate it when people do that to me.

However, to tell me to follow the manual for a generator from a different brand than mine, with no questions asked or even concern something may be different from the two mfg's recommendation wise, does not really seem to be the exact iron clad answer you seem to feel it is? Again, Champion is not Lifan even if the engines are the same. The mfg's actually DO have different oil recommendations in their manuals. I want to run what my mfg wants. Just can't do it with the class of oil they list which is not available.

I appreciate anyone who takes the time to answer a question I ask. I appreciate your time as well( seriously )and I am not intentionally trying to upset you or anyone else. I just don't understand you or anyone else getting upset that I don't take answers on what Champion, or Honda, or mfg XXX says for their generator as 100% accurate for what I need to do with my Lifen generator.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: Texan4Life
hmmm

Maybe it is because they copied the old honda gx owners manual?



Pretty much. I've read of several instances where people who used larger (11-16hp) Chondas commercially didn't have failures when they switched to 15w40. If this generator was going to be used for hours/days on end, that's what I'd use. FWIW, much of the Lifan or Zongchen (sp?) Chinese import ATVs spec 15w40 right on the machine.

Nice little machine BTW! Thing is, I just can't see spending more than ~$300-350 on a Chinese 3500 watt and that's shipped to the door. They're all the same. Something major goes wrong, you toss it out. The E-start cracks me up on most of these. Like the juice box sized 12v is going to be worth a poop (after it sits for awhile) for 90% of owners!

Shipped to the house was $345( $40 shipping ). Tried to see about getting it shipped to the local store to avoid the $40 shipping but they don't do that with the online only items I was told. As this is something that will only be used during prolonged winter power outages( not common as we are on the same basic lines as the local Hospital - but has happened - longest = 3 days no power )I just couldn't see spending $800-$1000+ for a more well known brand. In 10 years this might get run for 10 hours. Those name brands only had a 1 year warranty as well while this has a 3 year.

It is not the electric start version( ES3500E )you have shown. Mine is the manaul start( ES3500 ). Same thing though minus the electric start feature and mine came with the cables/wiring to intall ES it looks like( haven't fully gone through it all yet ). I agree about the battery issue you brought up. Not only that but it is an odd size that is very difficult to find I read.

I am leaning towards RP SL 10W-30 at this point.

Thanks for the response.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: j_mac
A good choice might be Mobil 1 Racing 4T or MX4T (same oil.) Its synthetic and intended for motorcycles. Motorcycles have their transmission gears lubed by the crankcase oil so you KNOW it would be a good splash lube oil. It also has the SG rating! You can find it at any Wal-Mart. Just beware that sometimes its not kept with all the other motor oil. I've often seen it a couple isles over near the air compressor accessories. Inexplicable.
I've got this oil in my simple, cheap Briggs lawnmower because I had just enough left over from my BMW K1200R. Seems to "like" it.


Thanks. I will check it out.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: flatlandtacoma


I have lots of owners manuals from throughout the years that specify SE, SF, SG, SH, SJ, or SL. Sometimes they say "or later", most times they don't. Because it is REDUNDANT to specify "or later". Every new specification incorporates ALL of the requirements of all previous specs.

Take your tinfoil hat off.


No tinfoil hat and no need to be rude. I asked a simple question. Relax. As to all API spec's being backwards compatible that is the theory but it doesn't always translate to reality as older high performance and muscle car engines have shown with wear issues using SM oil( lowered ZDDP ).