Anybody have E-15 Ethanol concerns?

[2strokeNorthstar]

I wish I could buy ethanol free at $12 a gallon!

It's not for street use. Legally

 

[joekingcorvette]

Here's what Ford has to say about that:

https://www.ford.com/support/how-to...sSpv9DqmuFgGQtPKUvVEjtv-Ix6xWF0U1IBvFG4TM3CuE

According to Ford, your Maverick as well as every other Ford model built over more than the past decade can run E15.

EPA does claim that E15 may be used in anything built post 2000, but Ford says it may be used only in their products of the 2013 model year or newer.
This is the reason I suggested checking what the manufacturer has to say about E15 use rather than simply relying on the EPA's claim.

That's a very blanket statement by Ford. There is no way I will run it in my Maverick. I could run it in my flex-fuel 5.0 F-150 but I refuse to do it. I guess at the end of the day if you feel it's ok to use in your vehicle that's fine but I wouldn't want to encourage others to use it and possibly harm their vehicles.

 

[repairman54]

I remember reading on the forum somewhere that folks testing E10 ethanol content was usually at 7% so the up to 10% comes into play.
I wonder if someone has tested the up to content on E15 pump gas yet ?
My 2019 Mercury outboard as a big no E15 sticker on it. I'm assuming fuel system corrosion is the issue especially in a marine environment. It gets E0 anyway along with my OPE engines.
My 6.2 Chevy is 91 recommended so it will never see it either.

 

[Overfill]

Your GGE factor for e15 is 1.018

 

[CDX825]

My daily driver is my work van and its flex fuel so I'm not worried about E15. Have been filling up at sheetz with E15 88 when I can just to save a few bucks anyway and I don't notice any difference in fuel economy.

 

[Hohn]

With the EPA's recent ruling to allow the extra alcohol-diluted E-15 gasoline, does anybody share potential concerns for their older cars? It's ostensibly OK for newer cars, but what about those 80s and 90s vehicles, motorcycles, lawn mowers, etc.? Hoping the basic E-10 remains available.

Heck, I’m concerned for my newer vehicles too. It’s not good.

 

[Mackelroy]

How much extra is the no ethanol brew?

Normally higher than premium, and diesil, it isnt cheap

 

[ChrisMU]

My 2013 Ram 1500 owners manual recommends 89 octane, but it runs well on the (cheaper-than-87 e10) 88 octane e15, which is a blessing since ponying up the extra money for 89 on my Austin-Milwaukee trips is not fun.

My pre-1980 vehicles and ope all get e0.

 

[TacoFergie]

I don't care for E15 88 octane. I tried it in my 23 F150 3.5 Ecoboost. It didn't idle as smooth, it seemed to shift later (thinking it was reducing timing) and I got about 15mpg when I normally average about 18mpg using 89 or 91. I typically use 91+ just because I never know when I might tow and it seems to run smoother. Our Subaru Ascent also saw a big dip in fuel economy. Can't recall how much, but it was noticeable.

 

[grasscutter]

Google AI says California is switching to E15 early 2027. Knowing California, E10 probably won't be available no more.

What are people driving cars older than 2001 supposed to do?

 

[CleanSump]

Google AI says California is switching to E15 early 2027. Knowing California, E10 probably won't be available no more.

What are people driving cars older than 2001 supposed to do?

California doesn't want you driving old cars.

 

[grasscutter]

A further conversation with Google AI yielded this :

Me : Do you think my 2000 model year Buick LeSabre will run safely on E15 gasoline?

Google AI : No, your 2000 Buick LeSabre cannot safely run on E15 gasoline, and you should strictly avoid using it.[1, 2]
While it will not destroy your engine instantly in an emergency, using E15 long-term introduces legal, electrical, and physical risks to your vehicle. [1]

Legal and Regulatory Bans

• EPA Regulations: The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) explicitly bans the use of E15 fuel in any vehicle manufactured in the model year 2000 or earlier. [1]
• Pump Warning Labels: Federal mandates require gas stations to post a prominent orange or yellow warning label on E15 (often labeled as Unleaded 88) pumps stating it is approved only for 2001 and newer vehicles. [1]

Physical Fuel System Risks

• Corrosive Degradation: General Motors did not build pre-2001 fuel infrastructure to withstand 15% ethanol. Over time, the extra alcohol can dry out, crack, and dissolve the older rubber formulations used in your car's fuel lines, injector seals, and Buick LeSabre Fuel Pump Assembly gaskets. [1, 2, 3]
• Moisture Damage: Ethanol naturally absorbs moisture from the air. In an older vehicle like yours, this water accumulation accelerates rust inside steel fuel tanks and lines, potentially breaking loose debris that plugs your fuel filter or fuel injectors. [1, 2, 3]

Engine Tuning Discrepancies

• Lean Air-Fuel Ratios: Your Buick’s engine computer (ECU) was calibrated to handle a maximum of 10% ethanol (E10). Pushing the blend to 15% forces the engine to run leaner than intended because ethanol contains less energy than pure gasoline. This can trigger a "Check Engine" light for lean fuel banks or cause a rough idle. [1, 2, 3]

Safe Alternatives for Your Vehicle
You should stick strictly to standard Regular Unleaded (E10 or 10% Ethanol maximum) or seek out 90 Octane / Rec 90 (E0 / Zero Ethanol) fuel if you want to completely avoid ethanol-related moisture issues in your fuel network.

Would you like help finding local gas stations that offer completely ethanol-free (E0) fuel, or do you want to troubleshoot a check engine light if E15 was already put in the tank?

 

[grasscutter]

The thing about it is, all 2000 through 2005 Buick LeSabres were identical except for an upgraded emergency brake pedal in 2001.

I really don't think a 2001 model year Buick LeSabre is going to fair any better than a 2000 model year. Both cars are identical except for the emergency brake pedal mechanism on the 2001.

 

[grasscutter]

Me : What will I do if California no longer has E10 ethanol available and I'm only able to purchase E15?

Google AI : Relax—you won't have to scramble just yet. Although California legalized E15, lengthy certification processes for dispensing equipment mean E15 is not yet available at any California pumps. Standard E10 remains the statewide staple. [1, 2, 3]
If California eventually phases out E10 entirely in favor of E15, taking the following steps will protect your vehicle:

1. Check Your Vehicle's Compatibility

• Cars, SUVs, and Trucks: The EPA and manufacturers generally approve E15 for all vehicles manufactured in 2001 and newer. If your vehicle falls into this category, E15 is safe to use. [1, 2]
• Older Vehicles (2000 and older): Higher ethanol blends can damage the rubber and plastic components in older fuel systems. You will need to seek out specialized unblended "recreational fuel" (E0) or use premium (if compatible). [1, 2]

2. Protect Small Engines and Recreational Equipment
Never use E15 in boats, motorcycles, lawnmowers, or generators. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

• Using E15 in these engines can cause severe damage, void warranties, and even lead to fuel-system corrosion.
• If you absolutely must use higher-ethanol fuel in small outdoor equipment, always add a protective Fuel Stabilizer to mitigate water absorption and corrosion. [1, 2, 3]

3. Consider Fuel Economy
Because ethanol contains less energy per gallon than petroleum, stepping up to E15 will cause a slight dip in your fuel economy (about 1-2%). Though the pump price may be cheaper, your cost-per-mile might remain relatively unchanged. [1]

If you want, tell me:

• What make, model, and year is your primary car?
• Do you regularly tow a boat or haul off-road toys?

I can let you know exactly what options fit best.

Because your Buick LeSabre is a 2000 model year, it falls right on the wrong side of the EPA's official line for E15 approval (which strictly covers 2001 and newer). [1]
Even though the 2000–2005 LeSabres belong to the same eighth generation and share the 3.8L V6 engine, the EPA drew a hard chronological line because older vehicles were not legally certified to meet the emissions standards required for higher ethanol blends. [1, 2]
If California eventually transitions entirely to E15, you have a few ways to keep your LeSabre running smoothly:

1. Track Down E0 (Pure Gasoline)

• Look for pumps labeled as "Recreational Fuel" or E0, which contain 0% ethanol.
• Many gas stations near lakes, marinas, or rural areas continue to stock E0 specifically for older cars and boats.

2. Protect Your Fuel System

• Watch the Seals: The primary risk of running E15 in a year 2000 vehicle is not the engine itself, but the fuel system lines, gaskets, and O-rings, which can degrade faster under higher concentrations of alcohol.
• Use Additives: If you ever find yourself forced to use E15, treat your tank with an Ethanol Fuel Stabilizer designed to prevent moisture buildup and protect older rubber/plastic components from corrosion.

3. Check for Aftermarket Replacements

• If you plan to keep the car for a long time, look into upgrading to modern, ethanol-compatible fuel lines and fuel pump gaskets during routine maintenance.

If you want, let me know:

• Are you noticing any fuel system issues currently (like rough idling)?
• Do you want help finding stations that sell E0 fuel in your local area?

I can provide specific resources or troubleshooting steps.

 

[grasscutter]

Me : Which fuel system parts in a 2000 model year Buick LeSabre will be the most sensitive to E15 gasoline?

Google AI : In a 2000 Buick LeSabre, the parts most sensitive to E15 gasoline are the fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, and rubber hoses/seals. Because 2000 models were built for E10 (or pure gasoline), prolonged E15 use risks ethanol corrosion on copper/bronze pump components, premature diaphragm failure, and seal degradation. [1, 2, 3]

Most Sensitive Fuel System Parts

• Electric Fuel Pump: The pump resides inside the gas tank. Ethanol blends can accelerate corrosion on the internal copper and bronze components, and the higher moisture absorption in E15 can lead to electrical shorts or premature pump failure. [1, 2, 3]
• Fuel Pressure Regulator: The regulator contains an internal flexible diaphragm that is constantly exposed to fuel. The higher solvent properties of a 15% ethanol blend can cause the rubber or synthetic materials to swell, stiffen, or crack, potentially allowing raw fuel to bypass and be sucked into the engine via the vacuum hose. [1, 2]
• Rubber Hoses and O-Rings: Pre-2001 fuel systems rely on elastomeric seals and rubber lines that were not optimized to resist the drying and corrosive effects of mid-level ethanol blends. This can result in fuel leaks over time. [1, 2]
• Fuel Injectors: The injector coils and internal pintles can be subjected to accelerated wear and corrosion due to ethanol's increased solvency, which strips protective coatings and loosens varnish or gum deposits from older fuel tanks. [1, 2]

Important Considerations

• EPA Guidelines: The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) strictly certifies E15 fuel for use only in model year 2001 and newer passenger vehicles and flex-fuel vehicles (FFVs). As a result, older vehicles like the 2000 LeSabre (which is not an FFV) fall outside official compatibility parameters. [1]
• Long-Term vs. Accidental Use: Accidentally filling up with E15 is unlikely to cause catastrophic or immediate engine failure because the LeSabre's onboard computer (ECU) is designed to adjust the air-fuel ratio. However, continuous, long-term exposure to E15 significantly increases the risk of part degradation. [1, 2, 3]

If you suspect your LeSabre has been exposed to E15, let me know if you are experiencing rough idling, hard starting, or decreased fuel economy. I can provide guidance on fuel system cleaners or maintenance steps to mitigate the damage.

 

[tmorris1]

California doesn't want you driving old cars.

California doesn't want you driving any gasoline powered cars no matter how old. They are banning the sale of them by 2035