I'm considering using Amsoil in my brand new Toyota Matrix, but since they're service intervals are for 5k mi. oil changes, I'm wondering if I'd get screwed if I was doing 10-15k mi OCI and something happened requiring warranty work. Any thoughts? I'm very skeptical w/ all service depts.
Anybody denied warranty work for ext. OCI?
- Thread starter Tommyboy
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First of all, oil related failures are very rare. Secondly, the manufacturer (or his agent - in this case the stealership's service department) would have to prove that long oil change intervals caused the failure. Thirdly, denial of a warranty claim could only be made against a failure involving a part subject to motor oil lubrication - in other words the manufacturer or his agent could not deny a claim for a bad steering box or headlight switch based on your extended use of engine oil. Just their saying extended use of motor oil contributed to a lubricated engine part failure is not enough - that's the point at which they'd have to meet the legal requirement of proving their claim. From a practical standpoint, they would say so and there the matter would drop unless you'd be willing to pursue litigation. If you do decide to embark on extended oil change intervals while under the powertrain warranty, better figure on on UOAs at EACH oil change for a running record of how the oil held up. Acceptable levels of wear metals and a reasonable TBN would be hard for Toyota's experts to argue with in court. The question comes down to: how far, and to what expense, are you willing to push back, if Toyota or the dealership butts heads with you if the very unlikey were to happen? There's only one person in the world who can answer that question for you.
I would disagree with Ray. Toyota is known to challenge warranty with no service history, check what transpired in the early stages of toyota sludge story.
There was acctually a case of lexus that sludged with amsoil oil at 25000 miles in the days of Bob running
this forum.
You would not have your day in court as Toyota would force you to arbitrate, and Toyota wins arbitration in vast majority of cases.
There was acctually a case of lexus that sludged with amsoil oil at 25000 miles in the days of Bob running
this forum.
You would not have your day in court as Toyota would force you to arbitrate, and Toyota wins arbitration in vast majority of cases.
Although what Ray H said is true, all the dealer has to do is say "warranty denied", even if they're wrong, then you have to fight to prove otherwise. Remember, too, that most manufacturers employ an entire flotilla of lawyers whose sole function in life is to deny warranty claims, then make you fight them for it. Many times it's simply not worth the hassle, even if you're 100% in the right. Just follow the manufacturer's requirements during the warranty period, then use whatever oil and OCI you like afterward.
Exactly the reason I follow service intervals to the letter when I am under factory warranty. I have seen claims denied (legitimately denied)for lack of supporting maintenance records.
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I am no lawyer but a warranty is a binding agreement between the purchaser and the manufacturer. The contract simply states that you follow a maintenance interval as prescribed by the manufacturer.
When you choose to disregard this part of the contract, there will no longer be a contract and you have no leg to stand on. It doesn't matter what caused the failure. You broke the contract.
It is wise to follow written instruction while operating under the obligations of a warranty contract.
When you choose to disregard this part of the contract, there will no longer be a contract and you have no leg to stand on. It doesn't matter what caused the failure. You broke the contract.
It is wise to follow written instruction while operating under the obligations of a warranty contract.
Nowhere in the manual does it say you have to provide proof (in the form of specific documentation) that you changed the oil on schedule. What about us do-it-yourselfers who buy cases of oil and filters by the dozen for use on multiple cars? It's ridiculous to have to prove you changed oil and when. The onus should be on the manufacturer to prove you didn't. (Guilty until proven innocent??)
With Amsoil, if the oil causes a problem (very unlikely) then Amsoil will cover you.
If there is something else wrong with your car, then the dealer cannot deny your claim.
That said I don't believe super long OCI's out of the gate. Follow the manufacturer's recommended MAX OCI (for normal duty) for the first 3 or 4 changes with synthetic. Is this 5K? (or is 5K mile OCI severe service?) What oil viscosity does it call for? 5W-30?
If there is something else wrong with your car, then the dealer cannot deny your claim.
That said I don't believe super long OCI's out of the gate. Follow the manufacturer's recommended MAX OCI (for normal duty) for the first 3 or 4 changes with synthetic. Is this 5K? (or is 5K mile OCI severe service?) What oil viscosity does it call for? 5W-30?
I worked for BMW for a few years and although I have never denied a warranty, I would have if there was no proof of oil changes within factory schedules. I can only think of two cases with a spun main bearing and I requested receipts and both people had them that showed the oil was changed under schedule. BMW required this before they would approve the warranty work. If either of these people showed oil changes regularly well beyond the factory "normal" schedule, the regional tech would come out to inspect. I would not be authorized to preform the work under warranty if he determined it was oil related. BMW would not pay me if I did.
Has Amsoil ever paid out one claim?? The answer a couple of years ago was "no".
By definition any oil related failure will be deemed by Amsoil to be not their fault bc the oil is used in accordance with their specifications. And they warrant their oil in a "mechanically sound" engine. So if the engine fails..the engine was not "mechanically sound".
The dealer on the other hand will claim to the customer that he did not folllow required warranty. He will say the oil caused the engine not to be "mechanically sound".
Unfortunately the customer (not Amsoil) must prove that the vehicle was at fault and not the user (or Amsoil)
I don't think you would have a problem with the factory warranty. An Extended warranty is a big if?
I had an extended warranty on my Volvo 740. It was a 5 yr unlimited mileage deal. Hey for $550 bumper to bumper coverage it was too good of a deal to pass up. Well with the boost cranked up to 16 plus lbs I was breaking things on a regular basis. Lets see 1 Motor, 2 transmissions, 2 rear ends, and one twisted drive shaft. All in all the warranty company was more than a little upset when they reviewed my file at the dealer. Manufacture recommended 5K mile oil changes and I was changing at 3K miles and all services were being done before or at the recommended mileage.
Upset is an understatement when it came to the adjusters attitude. This insurance company was looking for any little excuse to deny fixing the car and there was none.
As far as the factory warranty goes I would not push the issue to save a few bucks even though you probably wouldn't have any issues unless they find sludge in the motor. If they pull the valve cover or head and everything is clean there is no reason to even ask what your OCI's are. I saw an early Pontiac Gran Prix 92-93 have cam issues. It was well known problem with a bad run of (soft) camshafts at the time. The lady that owned the car thought her son was getting the oil changed when she gave him the money to have it done. Nope he was putting it in his pocket and telling mom it was changed.
They popped the valve cover saw the sludge and told her she was paying for the camshaft fix. Also they voided the warranty on that engine.
I had an extended warranty on my Volvo 740. It was a 5 yr unlimited mileage deal. Hey for $550 bumper to bumper coverage it was too good of a deal to pass up. Well with the boost cranked up to 16 plus lbs I was breaking things on a regular basis. Lets see 1 Motor, 2 transmissions, 2 rear ends, and one twisted drive shaft. All in all the warranty company was more than a little upset when they reviewed my file at the dealer. Manufacture recommended 5K mile oil changes and I was changing at 3K miles and all services were being done before or at the recommended mileage.
Upset is an understatement when it came to the adjusters attitude. This insurance company was looking for any little excuse to deny fixing the car and there was none.
As far as the factory warranty goes I would not push the issue to save a few bucks even though you probably wouldn't have any issues unless they find sludge in the motor. If they pull the valve cover or head and everything is clean there is no reason to even ask what your OCI's are. I saw an early Pontiac Gran Prix 92-93 have cam issues. It was well known problem with a bad run of (soft) camshafts at the time. The lady that owned the car thought her son was getting the oil changed when she gave him the money to have it done. Nope he was putting it in his pocket and telling mom it was changed.
They popped the valve cover saw the sludge and told her she was paying for the camshaft fix. Also they voided the warranty on that engine.
Actually Al, Amsoil has paid a couple claims (new engines). One was a Toyota sludger who went 25K and added no oil (supposedly). We chatted about it here. Many folks even felt Amsoil shouldn't have paid!
With the new OCI recommendations from Amsoil, I doubt they'll ever have to pay again unless something that could happen to any oil happens.......
With the new OCI recommendations from Amsoil, I doubt they'll ever have to pay again unless something that could happen to any oil happens.......
With so much at stake (price of engine) I certanly would follow the manufactures recomendation. Waranties are there to protect you & the manufacture and if you don't want the protection then do as you pleasebut, expect a fight if you have a problem. Toyota have the right to ask for oil change receipts & service documents.
Read some of the posts on PassatWorld or VWVortex. VW did honor my powertrain warranty for a cam seal leak, but only because I keep scrupulous records and all of my oil and filter receipts. Other DIYers have been denied coverage under the 1.8T 8-year "sludge" [sic] warranty.
I wouldn't run 10-15k mi / 15-25k km OCIs with a 1.8T with ANY oil.
But doesn't it state that it is a Recommended maintenance interval? Therefore, the contract has not been broken.
Funny that you mentioned, a year ago we had a mandatory hurricane evaculation. It was worded: "evacuation is strongly recommended."
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