Any standalone GPS users here still?

Oh yeah, only Google isn't really "listening" in the traditional sense. It's scanning for trigger words, not saving anything it hears until it gets triggered. And what exactly are you afraid of google hearing about? You plot to take over the world? Or just the average murder/robbery plot? Because guess what, no one has ever been caught for any of that because google was "listening". I for one have nothing interesting for it to "hear".

Okay, here's a realistic scenario. All of this information stored on servers is extremely vulnerable to theft. Many companies, from retail, security, credit monitoring, cloud servers, and government including the IRS and state governments have been infiltrated and hacked dumping private data on the public - including bank accounts, passwords, tax information, credit cards, etc.

Do you really want your daily or occassional travel routines subject to this? Not me. That is a huge violation of OPSEC or PERSEC to have your travel routines and locations known. May as well leave your front door unlocked and some milk and cookies for thieves... And that's the least nefarious thing I can conjure... It's one thing if your neighbors have a general idea of your coming and going. It's another thing entirely if professionals can watch you in real time as you drive to another state, 10 hours away and remain there while they ranksack your house...
 
So you admit on a public internet forum you're plotting something. Real smart. Expect some suits at your door momentarily.

"Plotting" could be a business deal, private medical information, private legal information, private personal information, or a surprise trip for his wife, or a career change, or a steak dinner at Ruth's Chris, or a "reveal" of some sort. It's called the 4th Amendment and none of any body else's business.
 
I used my Garmin Dezl on vacation to Co. recently, reminded me of driving semi back before Covid.
 
Okay, here's a realistic scenario. All of this information stored on servers is extremely vulnerable to theft. Many companies, from retail, security, credit monitoring, cloud servers, and government including the IRS and state governments have been infiltrated and hacked dumping private data on the public - including bank accounts, passwords, tax information, credit cards, etc.

Do you really want your daily or occassional travel routines subject to this? Not me. That is a huge violation of OPSEC or PERSEC to have your travel routines and locations known. May as well leave your front door unlocked and some milk and cookies for thieves... And that's the least nefarious thing I can conjure... It's one thing if your neighbors have a general idea of your coming and going. It's another thing entirely if professionals can watch you in real time as you drive to another state, 10 hours away and remain there while they ranksack your house...
You have too active an imagination. I spent 10 years in IT. What you're saying doesn't really apply. Those breaches will happen regardless whether you use it or not. The advantage of using the phone is that you get the current maps and traffic. I'm not about to trade convenience for perceived risks that are really minor. Routing around traffic has saved me lots of times. You could also get killed in a car crash or crossing the street. Doesn't stop me from driving or walking across the street.
I don't know but I don't take calls when I am driving.
I have bluetooth so it's easy to answer with the steering wheel controls. It minimizes the maps but you can hit the button on the screen to blow up back up again. Only a few times has it happened at a bad moment when I needed to get to my exit or next turn.
 
You have too active an imagination. I spent 10 years in IT. What you're saying doesn't really apply. Those breaches will happen regardless whether you use it or not. The advantage of using the phone is that you get the current maps and traffic. I'm not about to trade convenience for perceived risks that are really minor. Routing around traffic has saved me lots of times. You could also get killed in a car crash or crossing the street. Doesn't stop me from driving or walking across the street.

I have bluetooth so it's easy to answer with the steering wheel controls. It minimizes the maps but you can hit the button on the screen to blow up back up again. Only a few times has it happened at a bad moment when I needed to get to my exit or next turn.

And that attitude is partly the reason we are being stripped of our liberties. People value convenience over all else, including privacy or liberties on a macro scale. We are marching right into the abyss and this doesn't end well.

As to the sleight of my "over-active" imagination, security data breaches are so commonplace today that they are just the cost of doing business. The ONLY way to defend against is to withdraw from invasive security devices like Alexa, social media that tracks you, posting your picture online, and many other things INCLUDING stopping your phone from listening to you and tracking your movements.

If you haven't read the novel 1984, I suggest it.
 
And that attitude is partly the reason we are being stripped of our liberties. People value convenience over all else, including privacy or liberties on a macro scale. We are marching right into the abyss and this doesn't end well.

As to the sleight of my "over-active" imagination, security data breaches are so commonplace today that they are just the cost of doing business. The ONLY way to defend against is to withdraw from invasive security devices like Alexa, social media that tracks you, posting your picture online, and many other things INCLUDING stopping your phone from listening to you and tracking your movements.

If you haven't read the novel 1984, I suggest it.
Oh yeah, 1984, it's science fiction. I emphasize the word fiction. We have plenty of liberties, I'm quite free to use the devices that save me time and money. It's important to balance the risks and the rewards. That was really the problem with your other posts that I didn't around to refuting, basically you lack data to back up your claims. You basically don't understand how there's theory and data and how the two fit together or not and how refining theory or getting more data leads to better theories. Basically the scientific method. And again, your conclusions don't follow from your premises. Yes there are data breaches. And no, defending against them like not using those devices isn't going to protect your social security number. There was no way withdrawing was going to help you with the Experian data breach.
 
Oh yeah, 1984, it's science fiction. I emphasize the word fiction. We have plenty of liberties, I'm quite free to use the devices that save me time and money. It's important to balance the risks and the rewards. That was really the problem with your other posts that I didn't around to refuting, basically you lack data to back up your claims. You basically don't understand how there's theory and data and how the two fit together or not and how refining theory or getting more data leads to better theories. Basically the scientific method. And again, your conclusions don't follow from your premises. Yes there are data breaches. And no, defending against them like not using those devices isn't going to protect your social security number. There was no way withdrawing was going to help you with the Experian data breach.
I think you're missing the crux of the point at issue, and that is unless we start rejecting these invasive technologies (private and government alike) we are signing up for further intrusions. You can pretend much of the population is paranoid, but this stuff is getting worse daily. Monitoring may seem harmless, but it's not. Spying on you may seem harmless, but it's very Orweillian.

You might want to voluntarily give up your 4A rights and other liberties and rights, and perhaps that's why you live in a state like "Taxachusetts" which is one of the most oppressive states in the union pertaining to honoring liberty; but I'm a freedom minded person and I don't care to give up my liberties. Using these garmins and turning off phone locations is one manner I can retain some autonomy of travels whist still benefiting from the tech of GPS. They are not tethered to me in any way.
 
Using these garmins and turning off phone locations is one manner I can retain some autonomy of travels whist still benefiting from the tech of GPS. They are not tethered to me in any way.
How is using your Garmin any less connected then using your phone? Pretty sure you had to register the Garmin when you bought it to get lifetime updates. You don't think you can be tracked any less then with your phone?
 
If google or the government wanted to track you with location off, your phone still gives pretty good location data based on the cell towers you connect to when you are out and about. So crumple up your tinfoil hat now and toss it in the trash.

Taking a call with android is easy, it just pops a little bubble on the screen and leaves the map in full screen all while on speakerphone or bluetooth if your car has it.
 
I think you're missing the crux of the point at issue, and that is unless we start rejecting these invasive technologies (private and government alike) we are signing up for further intrusions. You can pretend much of the population is paranoid, but this stuff is getting worse daily. Monitoring may seem harmless, but it's not. Spying on you may seem harmless, but it's very Orweillian.

You might want to voluntarily give up your 4A rights and other liberties and rights, and perhaps that's why you live in a state like "Taxachusetts" which is one of the most oppressive states in the union pertaining to honoring liberty; but I'm a freedom minded person and I don't care to give up my liberties. Using these garmins and turning off phone locations is one manner I can retain some autonomy of travels whist still benefiting from the tech of GPS. They are not tethered to me in any way.
As I stated before, you have a very common problem, failure to state a cause. George Orwell wrote a book of fiction. Your slippery slope argument has no end. When the intrusions happen, I'll shut them off. Data can be used both ways, could prove your innocence too. What's really oppressive is people pushing extreme views and trying to get other people to follow them. And making assumptions about people just from where they're from. The flip side of Massachusetts is that it's also considered the cradle of liberty. Basically you're making a lot of assumptions that aren't valid and you can't prove that they're correct.
 
How is using your Garmin any less connected then using your phone? Pretty sure you had to register the Garmin when you bought it to get lifetime updates. You don't think you can be tracked any less then with your phone?

I don't think a Garmin is as uniquely tied to me as you might think. I have never actively registered or tied my name to the many Garmin's I own, mostly purchased 2nd hand. Garmin doesn't have my name, address, phone, or email address. They even allow you to register it with only an email and nothing else. I've not even done that. I don't think there's any way really that a Garmin could be tied to me unless it was stolen out of one of my known vehicles.

The updates were put on my home PC, which is tied to me. Perhaps there's some layer of model numbers and serial numbers that feed to the mainframes but we're talking about layers of information there. And, it's not always on sending a signal, that a phone is constantly doing. I can turn off the Garmin and it stops signaling.
 
I don't think a Garmin is as uniquely tied to me as you might think. I have never actively registered or tied my name to the many Garmin's I own, mostly purchased 2nd hand. Garmin doesn't have my name, address, phone, or email address. They even allow you to register it with only an email and nothing else. I've not even done that. I don't think there's any way really that a Garmin could be tied to me unless it was stolen out of one of my known vehicles.

The updates were put on my home PC, which is tied to me. Perhaps there's some layer of model numbers and serial numbers that feed to the mainframes but we're talking about layers of information there. And, it's not always on sending a signal, that a phone is constantly doing. I can turn off the Garmin and it stops signaling.
The data is on the device. Mainframes are old, you mean server farms. The GPS signal is receive only, there's no transmission by the device unless you have a bluetooth model. Basically you don't understand how technology works which is why you're afraid of it. Walmart and Visa/Mastercard knows all about your shopping habits, but you don't see them blabbing it all over the place either. Even if you pay cash, they have cameras everywhere and they could figure out exactly what you do. But they don't. Thinking you're saving your liberties means you're living a life in fear.
 
The data is on the device. Mainframes are old, you mean server farms. The GPS signal is receive only, there's no transmission by the device unless you have a bluetooth model. Basically you don't understand how technology works which is why you're afraid of it. Walmart and Visa/Mastercard knows all about your shopping habits, but you don't see them blabbing it all over the place either. Even if you pay cash, they have cameras everywhere and they could figure out exactly what you do. But they don't. Thinking you're saving your liberties means you're living a life in fear.

You're again fully not comprehending the point. Apple or Google are literally saving all data connected to your registered phone for a variety of reasons, some nefarious or potentially nefarious.

Me on video at my local Walmart paying with cash or my CC is of no interest to anyone, and you'd need multiple layers to "hack" into that. I doubt Walmart videos are wirelessly hackable and that data would require significant man hours dedicated for a specific person and ultimately only for a very good reason. And the man-hour investment to find me on one instance buying a gallon of milk would be so inconsequential it wouldn't be worth time / effort. Having a device continually track you to prove you DID NOT commit a certain crime is quite paranoid IMO.

But ironically your "what-about" isms, regarding the constant watchful eyes of public and private cameras and recording transactions is also Orweillan. You've accepted and apparently embraced it. Me, not so much. To your point of "exonerating" you from a crime, it's an interesting concept. But in modern forensics it's unlikely definitive, and there's other methods of proving where you were if necessary - thru cameras and receipts if it came down to exculpatory evidence for a serious crime.

Garmins do communicate some info, hence it detects position, speed, direction, etc. But it's not tied to my name or vehicle. All Garmin databases likely show is that one of their 50 million GPS units drove to a Mexican restaurant today in Omaha. I doubt it's possible, certainly not without extensive costs and manpower, to try to find who owns that GPS ...

Alternately, a minor league crook, or a employee, with a computer can probably hack into your Apple or Google account and bingo, a treasure trove of everything you do.

Again, I can go to Google and it will tell me everywhere my phone has ever been since I used it and had the location turned on. That is a frightening invasion of privacy. Turn it off, and don't use it for location.
 
I have a Garmin with truck mode from 2013 before our company trucks had built in Navigation. I use it in my 2005 Chevy truck as neither my truck or my LG flip phone have the Nav feature! I also have a Rand McNally 50 state atlas stashed under the back seat. Bless your hearts, I imagine most of you would freak out if you had to drive a Peterbilt pulling a 53 foot trailer grossing 80,000 lbs to 5 different businesses in say...Atlanta on a Friday without a Nav device or phone. Many’s the time I had to rely on directions from someone in the front office or Bubba in shipping to talk me to their business hoping there wasn’t a 12 foot high bridge in route that Bubba had failed to tell me about. Anyone ever backed a 70 foot rig 1/4 mile before finding a place to turn around? I have! Remember, I have no Nav devices and 4 more stops after I leave Bubbas place! :eek: Sorry.....old man rant over...;)
 
You're again fully not comprehending the point. Apple or Google are literally saving all data connected to your registered phone for a variety of reasons, some nefarious or potentially nefarious.

Me on video at my local Walmart paying with cash or my CC is of no interest to anyone, and you'd need multiple layers to "hack" into that. I doubt Walmart videos are wirelessly hackable and that data would require significant man hours dedicated for a specific person and ultimately only for a very good reason. And the man-hour investment to find me on one instance buying a gallon of milk would be so inconsequential it wouldn't be worth time / effort. Having a device continually track you to prove you DID NOT commit a certain crime is quite paranoid IMO.

But ironically your "what-about" isms, regarding the constant watchful eyes of public and private cameras and recording transactions is also Orweillan. You've accepted and apparently embraced it. Me, not so much. To your point of "exonerating" you from a crime, it's an interesting concept. But in modern forensics it's unlikely definitive, and there's other methods of proving where you were if necessary - thru cameras and receipts if it came down to exculpatory evidence for a serious crime.

Garmins do communicate some info, hence it detects position, speed, direction, etc. But it's not tied to my name or vehicle. All Garmin databases likely show is that one of their 50 million GPS units drove to a Mexican restaurant today in Omaha. I doubt it's possible, certainly not without extensive costs and manpower, to try to find who owns that GPS ...

Alternately, a minor league crook, or a employee, with a computer can probably hack into your Apple or Google account and bingo, a treasure trove of everything you do.

Again, I can go to Google and it will tell me everywhere my phone has ever been since I used it and had the location turned on. That is a frightening invasion of privacy. Turn it off, and don't use it for location.
I comprehend the point better than you know. You should look up Dunning-Kruger. The less you know, the more you think you know. My degree is in electrical engineering and I'm very familiar with GPS.

Remember I'm not the one concerned about a device tracking my whereabouts, you are. I just pointed out that it could actually be handy. And I haven't accepted that being tracked or watched is good, just point out that it is done. Again, you make a lot of assumptions.

And you have no idea how GPS works. You basically need to receive the signal from 3 satellites to determine a point on earth. If you can lock on a 4th one, you can get altitude. There's no communications built into a basic Garmin device, the traffic reception was an FM receiver which tended to be a little outdated. It basically receives the signals from the satellites and calculates your position. If it communicated with Garmin, you would need a transmitter and a data plan or at least some kind of wifi setup to send the data. There is none. It could store waypoints and previous destinations on the device, but you'd have to hook it up to a computer and I doubt if Garmin even downloads that data. Interestingly, there's no actual compass built in. It figures out your heading based on the change in position. If you stood still, it'd have no idea which way it was pointing. I believe if you exceed 1000 knots, it doesn't work as the US doesn't want to you to use it on a missile. There's also EPE which is about 30-100 feet but let's not get into that.

There are also tools out there to better secure your google account. Real life isn't like the movies where anyone can hack into your account in 3 seconds. The FBI had to hire a special firm to hack into a terrorist's Apple phone. It's not as easy as you think. I think it was elaborate too. My guess is that they cloned it and did multiple brute force attempts at it. Not a simple or cheap thing to do.
 
I comprehend the point better than you know. You should look up Dunning-Kruger. The less you know, the more you think you know. My degree is in electrical engineering and I'm very familiar with GPS.

Remember I'm not the one concerned about a device tracking my whereabouts, you are. I just pointed out that it could actually be handy. And I haven't accepted that being tracked or watched is good, just point out that it is done. Again, you make a lot of assumptions.

And you have no idea how GPS works. You basically need to receive the signal from 3 satellites to determine a point on earth. If you can lock on a 4th one, you can get altitude. There's no communications built into a basic Garmin device, the traffic reception was an FM receiver which tended to be a little outdated. It basically receives the signals from the satellites and calculates your position. If it communicated with Garmin, you would need a transmitter and a data plan or at least some kind of wifi setup to send the data. There is none. It could store waypoints and previous destinations on the device, but you'd have to hook it up to a computer and I doubt if Garmin even downloads that data. Interestingly, there's no actual compass built in. It figures out your heading based on the change in position. If you stood still, it'd have no idea which way it was pointing. I believe if you exceed 1000 knots, it doesn't work as the US doesn't want to you to use it on a missile. There's also EPE which is about 30-100 feet but let's not get into that.

There are also tools out there to better secure your google account. Real life isn't like the movies where anyone can hack into your account in 3 seconds. The FBI had to hire a special firm to hack into a terrorist's Apple phone. It's not as easy as you think. I think it was elaborate too. My guess is that they cloned it and did multiple brute force attempts at it. Not a simple or cheap thing to do.

Your detailed explanation is both thoughtful, and not particularly useful, to the discussion. This is one of those cases where I do have a good idea of how GPS works with triangulation (I had a work project 13 years ago that dealt with locating a person via his phone using triangulation). I'm also aware of real life vs. the movies. And of the FBI and Apple phone issue a decade ago. None of that is germane here.

The issue is usability and tracking of phones, vs. stand alone devices. You cannot deny that your phone is tracking you unless you turn off the very features you (and many) who enjoy and use. I call those people lemmings. I don't want devices listening to me, tracking me, monitoring me. It's invasive. It's akin to stalking. If it was a person I'd get a restraining order against stalking. I don't need the finer details of how the sausage is made here, I don't want the sausage.
 
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