Any Reason For 5w-20 besides CAFE?

[mikemc]

I believe all this 5w20 debate will be settled when we start seeing a lot of engines making it to 200K + miles. If the engine lasts and you save fuel along the way, why would you not use it?

[ March 15, 2004, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: mikemc ]

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by mikemc:
I believe all this 5w20 debate will be settled when we start seeing a lot of engines making it to 200K + miles. If the engine lasts and you save fuel along the way, why would you not use it?

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I'll let you guys do the field testing for me

The 1/2% or less reduction in fuel consumption isn't significant to me.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr. T:
I don't have jokes...go to the shelves yourself. Do you see a 5-20 labelled as Heavy Duty/Mack truck/Diesel oil approved?

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No, but so what? Is your Castrol 10w60 Mack Truck and Diesel approved?

BTW, Castrol's Elixion (which has several HD diesel OEM approvals) is sold in Europe as 0w30 and in the US as 5w30. So your contention that 15w40 is "the" HD oil is just wrong.

 

[tenderloin]

The 1/2% or less reduction in fuel consumption isn't significant to me.

My sons 2.0 Focus gets 4-8% increase in mileage when using a 20W over a 30W. .

 

[sprintman]

buster engine clearances are "tighter than ever" in which particular engines?

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by tenderloin:
The 1/2% or less reduction in fuel consumption isn't significant to me.

My sons 2.0 Focus gets 4-8% increase in mileage when using a 20W over a 30W. .

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I've done a fair amount of test work myself. It's difficult for a professional to get repeatable results meaningful to 4% while driving in the real world.

 

[mikemc]

I get a consistent 1 mpg increase with 5w20 vs. 5w30 in the same vehicle under the same conditions. Over 4 to 6 years of ownership, that will add up quickly.

 

[n8wvi]

quote:

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Originally posted by mikemc:
I get a consistent 1 mpg increase with 5w20 vs. 5w30 in the same vehicle under the same conditions. Over 4 to 6 years of ownership, that will add up quickly.

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I commute 400 miles/week (more than most), but if I only get 1 MPG increase, I'll be saving a whopping $0.56 a week. I don't see that as adding up quickly. I feel I save far more than that simply by obeying the speed limit (which I doubt most posters here do).

Dave

 

[Brian Barnhart]

quote:

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For instance when Ford speced 5W-20 for fielded engines that were designed for xW-30

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And Ford's recommendation of 5W20 covers certain engines as far back as '92 or '93. However, as of the 2002 MY, Ford still did not recommend 5W20 for the 4.0L V6 used in the Ranger.

 

[tenderloin]

It's difficult for a professional to get repeatable results meaningful to 4% while driving in the real world.

Maybe those "professionals" need to find a difeerent line of work.

Slightly over 1+ MPG difference? That is no problem. Documented several times.

 

[tpi]

quote:

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Originally posted by tenderloin:


Maybe those "professionals" need to find a difeerent line of work.

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Out of curiousity how would you you set up an over the road fuel economy test which minimizes effects of wind, temperature, stop and go traffic, and driver input variables?

 

[heyjay]

quote:

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Originally posted by Motorbike:

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:
This is my biggest beef on this site with the thick oil crowd. No used oil analysis from them! But yet they just seem to know for fact that their thick oils are giving them lower engine wear.

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Some ! also don't even read! these posts !thouroly !before replying !to them either !as you might have! witnessed !.

Crossbow has pointed out the use of light oils in Asia . TC has provided many links . I have too along with countering the why does Ford not use thin oils in Europe with links showing the many Ford and Jaguar specific oils now available . I've also pointed to 4 engine oil analysis's of the same engine using the same brand 15w40 in Florida where it's warm most all the time and when the engine was switched to PCMO 30wts the wear metals lowered in the last two used oil analysis .


I have also posted the Mobil Au site and their recommendations for new Toyota cars which is 30wt not 50wt . The ELF site , AGIP , Aral and others are highly touting their new light weight oils with long drain benefits and better fuel efficiency . It's happening all over the world not just in the U.S.A .

Whats that river in Egypt named ?

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Motorbike:

I went to the Esso Mobil Australia site:

http://www.mobil.com.au

And followed the links for recommended oils for application.

Esso Mobil in Australia does not appear to sell any xW-20 oils at all. If you can provide more information on this, please let me know.

I first checked Ford and their current model year 5.0 V8: Mobil 1 10w30

I then checked a current 2.0 litre DOHC, like current Zetec-series motors: Mobil 1 5W-50

I then checked on Ford's economy car, the Ka 1.3 litre: Mobil 1 0W-40

Ok, next I checked Honda, as they "require" a 5W-20 here in North America.

The current Honda Civic: Mobil 1 10w30

Out of curiousity, I then checked for a 1992 Honda Prelude, as I used to own such a car. I always ran Delvac 1 though Honda recommended a 5w30. Once on a hot summer road trip I ran Mobil 1 15W-50, which I suppose would be VERY BAD according to your logic.

1992 Honda Prelude SI 2.3 litre DOHC: Mobil 1 5W-50. So I should have used Mobil 1 15W-50 in summer in my Prelude all along.

What a crock of s***.

I do know that Toyota Australia has general recommendations for a 20W-50, which I have posted before. Some of their VVT-i motors require a synthetic-blend 10w30, but it does appear you can also use the 20W-50 as a substitute in Oz.

http://www.toyota.com.au

I looked up the current Toyota Echo Hatchback in either 1.3 litre or 1.5 litre motor: Mobil 1 5W-50

I then looked up the Toyota Corolla 1.8 litre: Mobil 1 5W-50

Hmmm. How about the Camry 2.2 litre? Mobil 1 5W-50

I also checked the BP Lubricants site and most current model Fords, Honda's, and Toyota's have a recommendation of either 10w30 or a special high-performance synthetic "Visco 7000" 0W-40.

I have also posted the lubricant notes from BP Lubricants and they have a very wide range of viscosity for those makes, depending on temp, up to 20W-50.

I have vacationed in Europe and the price of fuel is frightening compared to North America. You would think the Europeans would all recommend a 5W-20 or an SAE 10W for maximum theoretical "gain" in fuel economy.

So when my 2004 Toyota Echo Hatchback 1.5 litre arrives, I will "compromise" and run the following oils:

Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 summer
Mobil 1 0w30 winter.

After I showed the local Toyota Service Manager the above links and recommendations, he suddenly shut up about running a 5w30 year round and mumbled "That's what we're forced to do."

Jerry

Jerry

 

[Schmoe]

I think Heyjays comments really summize quite well for us 5W-20 non-believers and I think that some of ya'll didn't understand his point. CAFE is an American standard, no where else is this used. Exact same cars, i.e. Honda's, are being filled with 5W-40's, 15W-50 etc. etc. from the factory. From the factory. Hmmmmmm......what is up with that? But, most importantly, they are paying through the nose for gasoline. If they could save a buck or two in their fuel expenses, you'd think they would be all over that. But, they aren't. Europeans generally take better care of their cars than we do. They will easily sacrifice fuel prices in lieu of a engine dying prematurely.
One of the drivers on fuel conservation besides CAFE, is the Clean Air Act. Companies have to comply to various air laws and one way for which they could be given credit is recommending fuel conserving motor oils. Kind of like emissions trading.

 

[crossbow]

I guess you guys missed my whole japan link...where they're filling the rx8's, mazda3's, and mazda6's in Japan with 5w-20 from the factory.

Once again (as everyone seems to have selective reading when it comes to thick vs thin)...

http://www.rx-8.mazda.co.jp/

http://special.atenza.mazda.co.jp

http://www.axela.mazda.co.jp

Anyway, while the discussions been occuring, two more mazda6 used oil analysis popped up.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001361

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001355

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Red Line 5w-40 IS thick. 4.6cP is higher than pretty much every conventional 20w50.

 

[Lubricious]

quote:

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Originally posted by hmeyer:
"I'd rather have CAFE collectively saving us millions of barrels of oil a year by recommeding the viscosity of oil best suited(protection and fuel savings) for 98% of vehicles, than pay four times the amount for gas and oil"

Good point, Kernel. As long as the new oils continue to protect, which they appear to be doing, then I'd say the result of CAFE is a good thing.

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Sorry, but CAFE has no bearing on the price of petroleum in the US as opposed to other markets.

 

[Schmoe]

Yeah, but if I could read Japanese it would probably help. Those are probably the cars going over to the US anyway.

 

[Matt89]

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Europeans generally take better care of their cars than we do. They will easily sacrifice fuel prices in lieu of a engine dying prematurely.

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This "may" be true. But how many engines die prematurely here in USA? The only cars I ever see trailing blue smoke are 'ricers' squeezing 750 HP out of their 1.6L Civic and 150 year old dodge caravans with all the trim fallen off and tons of papers, styrofoam cups and empty cigarette packs jammed between the windshield and the dashboard.

Theoretically 5W-20s might not be as good protection under NASCAR / autobahn conditions, but going between traffic lights in Anytown, USA they might cut down our national fuel consumption so I think they're worth a try.

 

[tpi]

The engine wouldn't have to die. One premature timing chain replacement will more than eat up any fuel savings from any oil too thin for high ambient temp conditions.

Does timing chain tensioner material show up on analysis reports?

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Schmoe:
Yeah, but if I could read Japanese it would probably help. Those are probably the cars going over to the US anyway.

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Could be Japanese market. Their domestic cars have very tight gumnt restrictions on emissions, they probably also have tight economy standards and Japan doesn't have as much hot weather or high speed driving to deal with as the US.