edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
I think I used those two terms interchangeably to describe same thing.
Any Issues with Liquid Moly TopTec 4100
- Thread starter raaizin
- Start date
It's listed on the Porsche approved list. I don't see anything wrong with using it.
Sure a bit of this but I can find the same behaviors here on BITOG about a variety of products. It's like Brotella with the Subaru community or M1 0W40 here on BITOG. Folks like what they like and will argue about it
One thing for sure however, LM sells a lot of oil based on approvals and it's a fine product. Whether it's worth a premium is certainly debatable as many here point out. I use it in a few of our vehicles b/c of the FCP dealNot the same as someone here saying they like XYZ but don't use ABC b/c "it runs quieter". Let's use a better example. I use HPL 5W40 Euro in my Sportwagen. Why specifically vs. other oils? Firstly, I have used other oils, notably LM Molygen, Leichtlaugh, M1 0/5W40, and Quakerstate. I have UOAs for all. All of these oils seemed to lose a bit more visocisyt over a cycle than I wanted - especially with track use. HPL has maintained viscosity better than any of them based on the many UOAs I have - note I have not discussed/called out wear metal rates b/c as many here will attest, you can't say much about them (oil vs. oil) using UOA data. To back that, LSJR's viscosity sheering video and the fact that HPL is known to use Star VIIs (all handled in the LSJR video) which are known to resist shearing more than others used in lower cost products (like I was using). That's a reasonable assertion and data-driven decision, to me, that I can make with the level of BITOG-type information and data I have. Summary? HPL is a better oil based on viscosity retention for my car/use than other products so that's why I use it. About as good a data-driven approach to oil choice as you will find here. Next up will be some HTHS testing on my current fill at HPL's lab when I'm done to see how it held up! Stay tuned and don't forget to smash that like and subscribe!
Last edited:
Nothing. However when you present evidence oil X runs "smoother" (in YOUR car), you are making the argument based totally on subjective results. See, what works for your smoothness scale might not match up with mine, and I'd be foolish to use that oil based on your comments in an attempt to get the same result. Objective on the other hand, with regard to approvals, (as in some have them, some don't) is objective, ie; there are specific, measured, tests that oils must meet in order to gain these approvals. I was just pointing out the apples to oranges comparison of the two to produce "evidence" that one oil may be better, or more desirable.
I'm currently online with my LM sponsor overlords discussing this post and how to best shill...er...handle it. Stay tuned!Too late, @TiGeo already saw this.
#LM4lyfe
Last edited:
speaking of noises, i have never heard so much ''noise'' about that oil ,until i started reading BITOG.
looking forward to that test..hpl is the second most popular "noise" here and i guess it deserves it , everyone is happy using it..also there are noises and noises.my motul 5-30 makes such a loud noise ,but i like it so much that i forget smoothness.
i am thinking trying a 5-40 next time.price is better for 5-40 oils, xcess gen 1 or this one first time . price for both is quite low for both of them here in europe.
Last edited:
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
I already mentioned. M1 0W40 API SM was notoriously loud in some engines. In my EA888 VW CC that I owned some 10yrs ago, it was noticeable difference between that M1 and Castrol Edge 0W30 or Pennzoil 5W40. M1 was simply “loud” oil.
However, it returned impeccable UOA. One UOA had shearing after 5k of only 0.2cst.
When I used the same oil in a few of my Euro cars, including VWs, it was definately louder than the Castrol equivalent. But, it still performed well and didn't get consumed over the course of a OCI. So while the noise was subjective (some didn't hear anything), you still verified its performance in your car with an objective test (UOA). This is the point I'm trying to make between objective and subjective aspects.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
I don’t doubt minimum performance of any approved oil. But it is minimum performance. Would I buy Liqui Moly? Sure, if there was no other option there. But, there is.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
I am not sure M1 0W40 has some cult following like LM has. I would say argument forM1 was always bang for a buck. It is often recommended to people who want Euro oil but not sure what: go to Wal Mart and get M1 0W40.Sure a bit of this but I can find the same behaviors here on BITOG about a variety of products. It's like Brotella with the Subaru community or M1 0W40 here on BITOG. Folks like what they like and will argue about it
LM has two things going on:
1. Some people want something special, and Made in Germany gives them that satisfaction. You can talk as much as you want about HPL, but expensive oil packaged into blend bottle in which oils from dollar store are packaged too, is marketing problem. Then Made in Germany is more exotic than Made in Illinois.
2. Your average European shop. It is much easier to sell Liqui Moly to gullible customers than other oils. Some mechanics don’t understand approvals, some, like the guy I know, just find it super easy explaining to customer that he uses Made in Germany oil. He shows bottle, customer is sold, comes back again. How I know? I sent my neighbor to that guy and every time car topic pops out, he mentions how Mike uses “German oils.” I change oil in his ML550 sometimes and he always asks : “is that the same stuff Mike uses?” I tried once to explain him approvals, and I could see his brain short circuited. So, it is better for Mike to change his oil with Made in Germany stuff, than him got to Jiffy Lube.
Good candidate for that is SHU 5w-40 (api sp version) awesome oil
I'm a member of another fairly large online car/garage group where to most members, money truly is no object, and the vast majority simply default to "LM all of the German things!!!" because they heard it from someone they deem authoritative or it sounds exotic, etc. I just assumed it was some special sauce before I started deep diving here.
You 2 points are dead-on and yes, the HPL bottles blow but you accept it knowing what's inside....I just want a measuring window. The high-end German-only shop I use and that builds/supports race cars is a LM shop and in the end, it's just fine and has the approvals so who cares. The cost difference isn't huge here for someone with a Cayman vs. if they used M1 and they feel good about it so it's a win for the customer and shop. I understand being someone who knows a lot about a subject and being annoyed when someone asks you a question like that b/c it makes it seem like they don't trust you or know what you are talking about/the person they referrence is more knowledgeable when they aren't, I get it.
yeah , i know that europe loves these 2.xcess and shu both 5-40.great price both of them value for money.but if you remember, we had a conversation about how bad was my experience with shell oils, tried them twice .and one was with TPT.it was the only oils that my engine consumed more than usual.not something tragic but noted.as much as i wanted to like shell oils, nope.
actually i would like to know why 5-40 oils are cheaper than 5-30. motul x clean 5-30 vs xcess 1st gen.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Well, you and me and some others know that.
I gave my neighbor with BMW 335 manual two bottles of HPL MTL 75W for gerbox and he gave me this look like: what kind of crap is this? I had to explain to him exhaustively the difference. I am still not sure he believes me.
Haven't noticed any meaningful difference regarding oil consumption from Shell HU, Fuchs, Total, Eurolub, and right now Shell HX-8, all X40 A3/B4.
M1 0W40 (SN) going in next. Found a place that sells 20L Ravenol HCS & VMO boxes with tap at a good price, so that might be my next purchase.
Only theory I got is that you only get x amount of y&z viscosity baseoil from HC and GTL, 20/30 is in higher demand. That and API SP for 30 is harder to achieve?
Last edited:
I agree which is why I used Supertrch that says it meets a spec and can go 20k miles. Anyone saying that makes it superior or that there can’t be better because has a longer drain interval doesn’t see the many different variables and use cases.
What does that have to do with what I stated? I said my engine runs smoother on something. Your responses so far have been that it’s impossible compared to an oil that meets a factory spec and now that it’s not directly correlated to wear. Can you point to any place I said it was? You brought the topic, not me, taking a shot saying I couldn’t tell the difference and that it’s not possible. I said I could. I never mentioned wear or anything else. I’m going to make sure my statements and reasons for them stay on point and not drift to everything else you want to drag into this. My mother use to argue like that.No one said it did. Your reading comprehension is failing you I think. In any case, engines do not run "smoother" on decent oils of similar viscosity. It is placebo. Even if it wasn't, "smoothness" is not known to be a factor directly correlated to wear according to actual engineers or SAE journal papers.
Maybe Infineum and Porsche can throw away their expensive equipment for accelerometers and stethoscopes.
