Anti-Seize vs. Loctite

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: BRZED
A for Loctite being used as a thread protectant, yes, I can see that, too.


I don't think it prevents against galling near as well as anti-seize does. And by "galling," I mean scraping, abrading, tearing, bending, chipping, misaligning, or in general - wearing away the threads of a fastener. I believe it's in my best interest to decrease friction to the threads of a fastener, not increase it.


Most of it is all in your head and the OCD prevents you from thinking logically. I live in a rust belt and have never galled, tore, chipped or bent the threads that were cleaned of course.
And threaded fasteners do need friction to set the tension and hold it. Your OCD and lack of any engineering related training creates solutions to problems that simply do not exist. In fact your solutions may cause problems.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
I'm not certain that I would call the mechanics on YouTube "professional"...

After all, our favorite poster, Joseph C. (AKA GHT, Technologs, MalfunctionProne, etc...) has videos on YouTube explaining how to SeaFoam a car, how to use paint thinner to clear a CEL...
How to use his head as a hammer....

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
If you never want to get a bolt out ever again, coat the threads in red Loctite and cross thread it in there.
Napier used to stake every bolt in their aircraft engines.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Yea Merkava 4, I use a fair amount of AS.....my best estimate is probably just under an ounce a year. I bought, .22 ounces, the small tube of blue loctite about six years ago and probably have plenty left. I will usually never think about it unless I have noticed a bolt backing out. Like on a pushmower wheel and a HF torque wrench.

Nice of you taking the extra step of brushing the bolt clean first. I just removed water pump bolts and they were terrible. I think a mix of dried coolant, rust and thread sealant was on them. I wipe them well with a towel and paint them with antiseize until they look new. I feel it treats the metal, thst is why I mainly do it. But sometimes I use it as intended, like on lug nut studs and reduce torque a fair amount. I hate hearing creaking when loosening dry lugnuts. Also, on hub faces to prevent seizures is great.


As mentioned you sre in Cali, but I just cannot begin to understand how the salt belt survives as well as they do with doing less than we do and we rarely, if ever get snow and salts.
On a lawn mower wheel bolt I'd use superglue if nothing else were handy.

 

[Bgallagher]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Locktite has its purposes and the different compounds of Antiseize has its purposes. They are different.


+1

 

[SLCraig]

I almost never use Loctite, but I do use AntiSeize all the time on fasteners.

I live in the rust belt though.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
After all, our favorite poster, Joseph C. (AKA GHT, Technologs, MalfunctionProne, etc...) has videos on YouTube explaining how to SeaFoam a car, how to use paint thinner to clear a CEL...

 

[eljefino]

Loctite claims antisieze properties, at least on the label of the product I used, blue.

You just have to heat it, and not as much as you would to get rusty stuff apart. A propane torch should do it.

 

[BRZED]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: BRZED
A for Loctite being used as a thread protectant, yes, I can see that, too.


I don't think it prevents against galling near as well as anti-seize does. And by "galling," I mean scraping, abrading, tearing, bending, chipping, misaligning, or in general - wearing away the threads of a fastener. I believe it's in my best interest to decrease friction to the threads of a fastener, not increase it.


You know what kinds of threads I have worn out over time in the past? The threads on the pedals of my bicycle. That's a place where I started using threadlocker with success: crank to pedal. Maybe I should have used antiseize instead? That was way back and I don't have any problems with the ledals coming loose on my current bilkes.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: tig1
What's your point? What does this have to do with your question?


You're supposed to come back and say you use Loctite on your hub to steering knuckle bolts instead of anti-seize like I do. And then you'd say I run the risk of having my hub to steering knuckle bolts loosen up due to vibration.

 

[BRZED]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: tig1
What's your point? What does this have to do with your question?


You're supposed to come back and say you use Loctite on your hub to steering knuckle bolts instead of anti-seize like I do. And then you'd say I run the risk of having my hub to steering knuckle bolts loosen up due to vibration.


Actually, the OEM steering knuckle bolts on my Golf had threadlocker on them from the factory. The dry stuff that looks like thick blue paint. I can probably find a spare bolt and show you.

 

[Ducked]

Anti-seize is hard to find here. Don't miss it much since I find improvising (mostly using aluminium foil or coke can to rub greased threads) works OK.

Thread cleaning I also sometimes floss them, either with actual floss (though that costs money) or a few strands off the fuzzy end of a synthetic rope.

I sometimes use PTFE tape on external threads, or a bit of polythene bag, say on wheel studs. I think the latter may have a sort of thread-locking effect, nylock style.

I've used Loctite once, on an oil-pump sprocket. Was very hard to find, expensive, and was lost when the shared fridge I stored it in at work(which was pretty disgusting, as is the way of shared fridges) was thrown out by the university I work for.

I was [censored] off. I thank y'all for the opportunity to share my suffering. Taiwanese just don't understand this kind of thing.

Of course any thread treatment (apart from cleaning and drying) is out if you worry about torqueing to spec, which is why I don't very often worry about torqueing to spec.

 

[kschachn]

If your FSM specifies the use of a thread locker on certain critical bolts and you're using anti-seize instead, then you're a moron.

In my humble opinion of course.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
If your FSM specifies the use of a thread locker on certain critical bolts and you're using anti-seize instead, then you're a moron.

In my humble opinion of course.


Nobody mentioned anything about a factory service manual,
but you can still call me a moron if you want to.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: BRZED
A for Loctite being used as a thread protectant, yes, I can see that, too.


I don't think it prevents against galling near as well as anti-seize does. And by "galling," I mean scraping, abrading, tearing, bending, chipping, misaligning, or in general - wearing away the threads of a fastener. I believe it's in my best interest to decrease friction to the threads of a fastener, not increase it.


Most of it is all in your head and the OCD prevents you from thinking logically. I live in a rust belt and have never galled, tore, chipped or bent the threads that were cleaned of course.
And threaded fasteners do need friction to set the tension and hold it. Your OCD and lack of any engineering related training creates solutions to problems that simply do not exist. In fact your solutions may cause problems.


ah not exactly. A bolt is held in place due the the stretch of the shank due to its tension. Its effectively a spring. I doubt adding anti seize would make much difference since many fasteners are oily, greasy when re-installed anyway. A oily, greasy or bolt covered with anti-seize will torque easier, thereby creating more tension in the bolt. Properly torqued bolts do not back out in general.

 

[buck91]

I antiseize or at least grease/oil most fasteners. Sure, some do get thread locked but the vast majority get lubed. I rarely if ever have issues with under/over-torquing or fastener loosening. I am also know to get a little anal with torquing everything to spec, though.

 

[Silverado12]

Maybe I'm just lazy, but I'll use anti seize on stuff that gets hot and that's about it. Even my axle on my motorcycle gets plain grease. We have a little bit of road salt here and I've never had an issue. The threads of the bolt tend to get cleaned up anyways when you're loosening it. Now Loctite is another story. My Harley requires it on pretty much anything I don't want to vibrate loose. I use the blue, although I have some red that I think I used once.

 

[mjoekingz28]

Good observation Silverado12. So I guess that means the female part of the threads (the threads in the part.....is there a proper name?) gather some of the dirt. What does Merkava 4 need to clean the threads of the part? Is there some kind of thread chaser that will screw into the part and somehow gather the dirt, shavings and other debris and hold on to it until after you have went to the stop and then unscrewed the bolt or screw....or stud?

 

[Jetronic]

I have NEVER found a bolt treated with anti seize or copper paste to work itself loose. If a bolt comes loose it wasn't torqued properly or damaged in some way.

I use copper paste mostly on the same stuff that Merkava_4 listed. And maybe once a year I'll use Loctite on something, but it'll be to prevent leaking most likely. I'm spannering 5 days a week too.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
ah not exactly. A bolt is held in place due the the stretch of the shank due to its tension. Its effectively a spring. I doubt adding anti seize would make much difference since many fasteners are oily, greasy when re-installed anyway. A oily, greasy or bolt covered with anti-seize will torque easier, thereby creating more tension in the bolt. Properly torqued bolts do not back out in general.


It's both the tension and the friction that's needed. And sometimes even that is not enough and that's why in some applications the bolts are safety wired or have other means of locking them in place.
Friction is also quite important in setting the desired tension as that's how the torque value is calculated. Yes, in most cases the set torque is in the lower elastic range of the bolt so a lubricant usually will not take the bolt into the plastic range. But if you're not careful a bolt can be taken into the plastic range, elongating the shank as well as deforming the thread. That's when thread damage usually occurs. Also, most people would not notice this right away and re-use the bolt, only to have it eventually snap at the worst possible time.
And if you have a TTY bolt that should be installed dry and you use lube, you can easily snap it off.

Now, don't get me wrong here. I use lube on all sorts of bolts, but Merkava is coming off of a deep end of his OCD and just like with his desire to keep the engine factory clean, he's on a mission to keep bolts factory clean as well. His OCD may cause problems if he's not careful IMO.