Decision time - what anti seize for spark plugs in Aluminum Honda engine?

[JHZR2]

In aircraft applications, we've gotten away from using the graphite or C5A copper based anti seize, as it can contaminate the electrodes. Some say it will not burn off. We now simply use a drop of engine oil. This has proven to be superb.

Jet lube recommends against graphite in aluminum applications, yet historically you’ve used graphite or copper with graphite, which is what C5-A is…

That’s why I’m so confused…

 

[JHZR2]

I take out new plugs on my own new bought vehicles and coat them, diesel or gas engine.

With which product?

Not really a conundrum: ngk says it's not needed on NEW plugs, but the coating gets damaged during threading, you might get away without anti-seize on new plugs, but certainly not if put back in after inspecting.

The plugs come with a crush washer, crush it and be done. This really doesn't need a torque wrench, in fact you are in danger of not getting a good seal useing a torque wrench with dirty threads in the head.

Honda says to coat them. It doesn’t say new vs old. NGK doesn’t. The OE plugs I pulled were NGK. And a bit rusty - see pic above. Doesn’t look like they got anti seize at the factory…

 

[JHZR2]

I can see that being a problem on air cooled heads where temps can run in the 400f range as opposed to water cooled where mid 200's is the norm. Still, it seems Lycoming is okay with copper anti seize or oil just no graphite as in any air head it could cause misfire issues.

C5-A is copper and graphite. Is there such a thing as a pure copper anti seize that doesn’t have graphite?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Refer to the "Recommended Tightening Angle" chart on this page. I always use a tiny dab of copper anti-seize and have never had any issues.

Interestingly the bulleted instructions say:

• Always refer to the vehicle manufacturer’s repair manual for specific installation procedures.

 

[Trav]

C5-A is copper and graphite. Is there such a thing as a pure copper anti seize that doesn’t have graphite?

Yes, HT-1800, jet lube SS-30 and I am sure there are others.

 

[JHZR2]

Yes, HT-1800, jet lube SS-30 and I am sure there are others.

Interesting.

I looked at the jet lube product, and they don’t call out to use it with Aluminum, fwiw.

Though I don’t know thst it means much.

I also checked my CRC nickel AS, and noted it does contain graphite. Not sure if this is good or indifferent at this point…

 

[Patman]

When I first started driving in the 80s my dad taught me to change plugs by putting a little bit of motor oil on the threads of the plugs. I continued that habit until the late 90s and then I started using NGK plugs and didn’t use anything at all. I never had a problem removing any plug, although back then I did plug changes a lot more frequently. I’m currently running the original plugs in both of my cars (239,000 km on my Civic and 95,000 km on my Corvette) Both come with iridium plugs, so they will last quite a long time.

 

[JHZR2]

When I first started driving in the 80s my dad taught me to change plugs by putting a little bit of motor oil on the threads of the plugs. I continued that habit until the late 90s and then I started using NGK plugs and didn’t use anything at all. I never had a problem removing any plug, although back then I did plug changes a lot more frequently. I’m currently running the original plugs in both of my cars (239,000 km on my Civic and 95,000 km on my Corvette) Both come with iridium plugs, so they will last quite a long time.

The long time part is the issue.

I suspect that the civic may be a challenge to get out if they have been in there without removal for 239k. Good news is access is easy…

Any engine with harder access (generally V type engines) is more touchy, imo.

I was unpleasantly surprised how crunchy and how much initial force was required on a long handle 3/8 ratchet, and how rusty the threads were!

 

[spasm3]

I was unpleasantly surprised how crunchy and how much initial force was required on a long handle 3/8 ratchet, and how rusty the threads were!

On Al heads, when they break free, if you feel that crunchiness, remove the ratchet and use a short breaker bar to work the plug back and forth, extending the removal range as it eases up. This allows the carbon to be worked off the threads rather than ruining the AL threads.

I also remove plugs in AL heads when they are cool.

 

[Trav]

Interesting.

I looked at the jet lube product, and they don’t call out to use it with Aluminum, fwiw.

View attachment 221699

Though I don’t know thst it means much.

I also checked my CRC nickel AS, and noted it does contain graphite. Not sure if this is good or indifferent at this point…

View attachment 221700

I doubt it makes any difference in such a relativity low temp application.

 

[JHZR2]

On Al heads, when they break free, if you feel that crunchiness, remove the ratchet and use a short breaker bar to work the plug back and forth, extending the removal range as it eases up. This allows the carbon to be worked off the threads rather than ruining the AL threads.

I also remove plugs in AL heads when they are cool.

That’s exactly what I did. I learned to do that long ago and it’s more or less habit.

Doesn’t make feeling that crunchiness in an aluminum head any more comfortable… generally after a few back and forths, and a few threads out they came out ok.

 

[irekm]

In aircraft applications, we've gotten away from using the graphite or C5A copper based anti seize, as it can contaminate the electrodes. Some say it will not burn off. We now simply use a drop of engine oil. This has proven to be superb.

What is the replacement schedule, 100- 200h?

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Since I do my own I followed many recommendations of only doing them when cold after sitting many hours. Shops don't have that luxury all the time.

I use copper AS since that is basically all I have fr many years. I put a very small amount (like a line, not around) on the end 2-3 threads. I figure it will thread in what it needs and hopefully avoid the crush washer area. I've never had issues getting the ones out that I put in. I can't say the same for others and some factory ones first time.

With current vehicles and platinum/iridium/ruthenium plugs, I'm only changing them maybe 1-2 times anyway. Not like old school every 30k copper ones.

@JHZR2 - did you clean off the oil from when you ran the bolts in? If not you now have the oil coating all of the threads mixed with the AS. Hopefully you went low end of torque spec

 

[JHZR2]

Since I do my own I followed many recommendations of only doing them when cold after sitting many hours. Shops don't have that luxury all the time.

I use copper AS since that is basically all I have fr many years. I put a very small amount (like a line, not around) on the end 2-3 threads. I figure it will thread in what it needs and hopefully avoid the crush washer area. I've never had issues getting the ones out that I put in. I can't say the same for others and some factory ones first time.

With current vehicles and platinum/iridium/ruthenium plugs, I'm only changing them maybe 1-2 times anyway. Not like old school every 30k copper ones.

@JHZR2 - did you clean off the oil from when you ran the bolts in? If not you now have the oil coating all of the threads mixed with the AS. Hopefully you went low end of torque spec

I ran the chaser oiled, then ran it dry after that.

I did reduce torque, and I watched how much I turned after seating. It only went between 1/8-1/4 (always closer to 1/4) before the wrench clicked.

Part of the reason why I added such little antiseize is because I knew there would be remnant oil.