Decision time - what anti seize for spark plugs in Aluminum Honda engine?

[dkryan]

Well I only did that little patch on each.

I figured it was a hybrid between no and yes

Would it be worthwhile to pull and re-coat? This engine is surprisingly easy to change plugs. There isn’t an access issue for any plug with two short extensions.

I literally spent more time trying to decide if I should or shouldn’t use anti seize than I did on that job.

Or do so at 50k in?

And you’ve now achieved paralysis by analysis…………

Personally, I would motor on for the next 85-90k miles and stop worrying about it.

 

[atikovi]

Only use nickel based A.S. Costs more for a reason.

 

[KrisZ]

I wouldn’t worry about conductivity, the threads have a loaded side that is always meta to metal and there is plenty of clearance for the antiseize to migrate to.

 

[JHZR2]

Only use nickel based A.S. Costs more for a reason.

View attachment 221543

I have CRC Nickel, which is what I used. It’s a bit darker.

That looks like a pretty heavy application, no? I thought some of the concerns were related to not just it creeping down to the spark area, but getting pushed up to the seal and affecting torque and heat transfer/heat range of the plugs.

And you’ve now achieved paralysis by analysis…………

Personally, I would motor on for the next 85-90k miles and stop worrying about it.

Sure have. Since it’s my wife’s primary vehicle, I want to avoid any issues.

 

[bigjl]

I rarely do plugs anymore

Had diesels for years.

Haven’t bothered on the Smart yet as they aren’t due till 72k I think.

I used a tiny dab of Cera Tec brake lube which doesn’t contain copper on the plugs I put in a little Vauxhall Astra I serviced recently, same 1.6 engine as fitted to the Chevrolet Cruise, looks identical to the 1.8 engine.

Previously I have used coppaslip

Never had an issue with the plugs not coming out easy.

 

[bigjl]

Clean the threads as well as you can. Use a little bit of anti seize towards the tip of the spark plug, make sure none gets on the washer, otherwise it will throw off the torque spec. As to what kind of anti seize to use, I will leave that up to you. Personally, I wouldn't use copper in an aluminum head.

Torque spec?

Haven’t torqued a spark plug ever.

Never had a problem

 

[JeffKeryk]

I've wondered why NGK sez no anti-seize... My guess is, they want to avoid the slathering of anti-seize which I imagine some would do.

I also ask the converse; what harm does a little anti-seize do? So I apply just a little and torque to the lower end of the range.
Semi-related, I used to ask my brother how tight a given fastener should be. He told me, "How tight do you want it to be the next time you take it off?" It is such a pleasure to work on a vehicle that has been assembled properly vs. the other way...

@JHZR2 if you have the time, go ahead and redo the plugs. Might not make a mechanical difference, but you will sleep like a baby! Plus I'm sure you have your process down pat...

 

[bigjl]

No one from NGK is going to put a hand on your shoulder when you give the plug some tough love next time. Also very few people running Iridium plugs will be the person pulling the plug they just replaced in 100,000 miles from now. This discussion has been on Bitog a lot. Almost all of it is a moot point.

If you hate puckering up when you pull a plug put some anti seize on it and sleep well for the next 10 years. If you pull plugs earlier than 100,000 miles such as on turbos put some anti seize on it. If you like running copper plugs like grandpa did then good luck.

Plug change interval on my BMW with a B58 is 40k miles.

Which I thought was relatively low.

The fact we have driven diesels for years and historically don’t keep cars for long as compared to some on BITOG or do as many miles, has meant the small number of petrol cars we have owned in the last 20 odd years have usually never reached the point where the car needs plugs.

 

[bigjl]

Rust is one of the things I have to conclude is on the threads of the OE plugs.

View attachment 221540

The actual spark gap is perfect. Zero erosion and quite clean. I do feel like perhaps I should have used more, but then again there is conflicting guidance. I figure less is more, it will smear around, but avoid the tip. But I’m honestly not sure if best practice is to actually coat all the way around??

View attachment 221541



Well the conundrum here is that NGK says not to, but Honda says to use it.

I have torque wrenches where the torque range is past the lower 20%.

The NGK box also says to install 1/4 turn past bottoming out. When I applied torque, I found that they turned between 1/8-1/4 before the wrench clicked.

Honda make the engine.

I would go with what they say.

I have never heard of anybody having an issue with plugs after a small dab of anti sieze was put on them during installation.

 

[Jetronic]

My gut says no too but I’ve seen a lot of folks say it’s better because of markedly better electrical conductivity (like 10x).

The Cu-Al conundrum has me stalled…

It doesn't matter, because the anti-seize will keep electrolytes out, you won't get any corrosion. Been useing copper antiseize for over 2 decades, never had corrosion of any kind where I used it

 

[Jetronic]

Yeah if it's not a big hassle due to transverse engine with the intake blocking the rear bank, but after the first set of plugs, if I'm going to get access and loosen them anyway, would also take them out to look at, and might as well put new plugs in while I'm at it.

I take out new plugs on my own new bought vehicles and coat them, diesel or gas engine.

 

[Jetronic]

Rust is one of the things I have to conclude is on the threads of the OE plugs.

View attachment 221540

The actual spark gap is perfect. Zero erosion and quite clean. I do feel like perhaps I should have used more, but then again there is conflicting guidance. I figure less is more, it will smear around, but avoid the tip. But I’m honestly not sure if best practice is to actually coat all the way around??

View attachment 221541



Well the conundrum here is that NGK says not to, but Honda says to use it.

I have torque wrenches where the torque range is past the lower 20%.

The NGK box also says to install 1/4 turn past bottoming out. When I applied torque, I found that they turned between 1/8-1/4 before the wrench clicked.

Not really a conundrum: ngk says it's not needed on NEW plugs, but the coating gets damaged during threading, you might get away without anti-seize on new plugs, but certainly not if put back in after inspecting.

The plugs come with a crush washer, crush it and be done. This really doesn't need a torque wrench, in fact you are in danger of not getting a good seal useing a torque wrench with dirty threads in the head.

 

[Jetronic]

I take out new plugs on my own new bought vehicles and coat them, diesel or gas engine.

Not only plugs, all fasteners that are in danger of corroding. Welcome to the rust belt....

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Lots of folks (unintentionally) end up using too much A/S when they do them. You really need a very tiny amount and if placed near the end it will work its magic as you thread the plug in. Been very lucky and never had to fight any.

 

[Cujet]

In aircraft applications, we've gotten away from using the graphite or C5A copper based anti seize, as it can contaminate the electrodes. Some say it will not burn off. We now simply use a drop of engine oil. This has proven to be superb.

 

[JeffKeryk]

In aircraft applications, we've gotten away from using the graphite or C5A copper based anti seize, as it can contaminate the electrodes. Some say it will not burn off. We now simply use a drop of engine oil. This has proven to be superb.

Old skool. Just a taste around the threads. Then crank down on those iron heads!

 

[mccandish]

Refer to the "Recommended Tightening Angle" chart on this page. I always use a tiny dab of copper anti-seize and have never had any issues.

 

[Trav]

Well I only did that little patch on each.

I figured it was a hybrid between no and yes

Would it be worthwhile to pull and re-coat? This engine is surprisingly easy to change plugs. There isn’t an access issue for any plug with two short extensions.

I literally spent more time trying to decide if I should or shouldn’t use anti seize than I did on that job.

Or do so at 50k in?

I would just do them in 50-75K and forget it, you have some anti seize on them.

 

[Trav]

In aircraft applications, we've gotten away from using the graphite or C5A copper based anti seize, as it can contaminate the electrodes. Some say it will not burn off. We now simply use a drop of engine oil. This has proven to be superb.

I can see that being a problem on air cooled heads where temps can run in the 400f range as opposed to water cooled where mid 200's is the norm. Still, it seems Lycoming is okay with copper anti seize or oil just no graphite as in any air head it could cause misfire issues.

 

[ctechbob]

Reading stuck 75k NGK Iridium plugs in 3.0 V6 Honda.

These were installed by a trusted friend/mechanic at his shop during the first timing belt replacement. Almost every plug was welded in, tight coming out the entire way. I have changed plugs that have been in cars for 15+ years and 150,000 miles... This was my worst removal experience...

bobistheoilguy.com

That is pretty much a carbon copy of my experience.