Another 0w16 Post, but....

[EMPIRE]

Got another Toyota 4cyl (2020), OEM says 0w16. Yeah, I get it, special visc to enhance whatever carbon footprint # they can get out of it. All of the info for these 0w-whatever's say they help faster starts in cold weather......... well, what if the vehicle never sees temps below 50F ?

But have to ask, when the low temp in 24hrs is ~79F does the vehicle even need a 0w-whatever? When the daily air temp is 80F low to 107F high (summer in some places of CA, NV, AZ, NM, TX, etc), a 5w20 seems appropriate even if losing whatever gas savings the 0w16 has to offer.

A 0w16 running in a small hot engine when it's ~107-110F outside, looks like pee water.

This is why I think the OEM's should not spec out a visc grade for use, but should rather just spec out a oil lube rating(s) as acceptable, and then perhaps highlight a oil grade that provides best fuel economy.

 

[kschachn]

Above freezing the winter rating has little to no difference.

Nor does it have much of a connection to the operational viscosity.

 

[EMPIRE]

So when air temps is in the 79low 107hi range, a straight sae20 or even a sae30 would suffice, no?

 

[kschachn]

Most certainly. Even a straight-weight 40 grade if someone could find such a unicorn with the required license or approval.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

But what is the advantage? Especially in such a modern vehicle?

 

[farrarfan1]

Complaining about it on the internet isn’t going to accomplish a thing. You need to work directly with Toyota and the other manufacturers and educate them so they can start recommending the correct grade of oil.

 

[PimTac]

So when air temps is in the 79low 107hi range, a straight sae20 or even a sae30 would suffice, no?

The temps inside the engine are far higher than anything you or the oil will see in the air outside.

 

[kschachn]

The temps inside the engine are far higher than anything you or the oil will see in the air outside.

Yes but the way I read it he was referring to starting the engine.

 

[EMPIRE]

The temps inside the engine are far higher than anything you or the oil will see in the air outside.

True, but not sure your point.

The use of oil grades are mainly marketed against service "ambient" air temps.

If my garage is 100F with the door closed, the oil is then no less than 100F too. At 100F starting temp, why would I need a "w" anything? A sae20 will suffice.

 

[EMPIRE]

Yes but the way I read it he was referring to starting the engine.

Starting and running (up to temp). The engine has a fixed heatsink for engine oil, if ambient air is hotter then so will be the oil, no way around that.

 

[PimTac]

True, but not sure your point.

The use of oil grades are mainly marketed against service "ambient" air temps.

If my garage is 100F with the door closed, the oil is then no less than 100F too. At 100F starting temp, why would I need a "w" anything? A sae20 will suffice.

At that temperature, yes but it won’t be that temperature always. Which car is this?

 

[EMPIRE]

At that temperature, yes but it won’t be that temperature always. Which car is this?

I just got a 2020 Rav4 2.5L fwd in the household. I dont drive it, just maintain it
In say death-valley CA or Phoenix (summer), engine oil is not getting "cold"

... and, why do we care about how the engine starts when 0w16 is in context of "engine efficiency" for getting better mpg's.
What would be the diff in carbon footprint of a 0w16 vs a sae30 during the 1st ~0.5-1min after start while still in park when ambient temp is say 20/50/100F ? Probably not even measurable?

 

[Danno]

To look at it another way,

Can the OP point to examples of Toyotas using 0W-16 in hot climates, with engine lubrication issues causing engine damage/failure?

 

[Fallguy]

Never fear the "0W" in a 0W-XX anything.

The 0W is not a weight grade indication of "thinness". It is a winter rating, as to how well an oil can resist "over thickening" (at cold non operational engine/air temps).

All oils get thicker (thicker than their highest number on the bottle) the second they start cooling (going down from operating temp).

The 0W 5W is just how well they preform at over thickening resistance (at temps below operating temp) (ie cold weather)(ie room temp). But they each still over thicken. The OW just over thickens to a lesser extent.

Owinter-xx & 5winter-xx ( at 72 Fahrenheit or 50f or 0f ) are all phenomenally higher weight at those temps than a 50 grade even.

At normal max engine operating temperature (where oils get their weight ratings) (100c / 212F):
On a 0W-16 the oil will never get thinner than 16 grade

On a 0W-20 the oil will never get thinner than a 20 grade
On a 5W-20 the oil will never get thinner than a 20 grade

On a 0W-30 the oil will never get thinner than a 30 grade
On a 5W-30 the oil will never get thinner than a 30 grade
On a 10W-30 the oil will never get thinner than a 30 grade

The only way you will ever get an oil thinner than its largest number on the bottle is if you overheat your engine.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

True, but not sure your point.

The use of oil grades are mainly marketed against service "ambient" air temps.

If my garage is 100F with the door closed, the oil is then no less than 100F too. At 100F starting temp, why would I need a "w" anything? A sae20 will suffice.

Do you live on Mercury?

 

[kschachn]

Never fear the "0W" in a 0W-XX anything.

The 0W is not a weight or indication of "thinness". It is a winter rating, as to how well an oil can resist "over thickening" (at cold non operational engine/air temps).

All oils get thicker (thicker than their highest number on the bottle) the second they start cooling (going down from operating temp).

The 0W 5W is just how well they preform at over thickening resistance (at temps below operating temp) (ie cold weather)(ie room temp). But they each still over thicken. The OW just over thickens to a lesser extent.

Owinter-xx & 5winter-xx ( at 72 Fahrenheit or 50f or 0f ) are all phenomenally higher weight at those temps than a 50 weight even.

At normal max engine operating temperature (where oils get their weight ratings) (100c / 212F):
On a 0W-16 the oil will never get thinner than 16 weight

On a 0W-20 the oil will never get thinner than a 20 weight
On a 5W-20 the oil will never get thinner than a 20 weight

On a 0W-30 the oil will never get thinner than a 30 weight
On a 5W-30 the oil will never get thinner than a 30 weight
On a 10W-30 the oil will never get thinner than a 30 wight

The only way you will ever get an oil thinner than its largest number on the bottle is if you overheat your engine.

All of which is true in a general sense but does not apply for this user. The winter rating will be irrelevant for his conditions.

And just FYI none of the numbers are a “weight”.

 

[kschachn]

Do you live on Mercury?

Pretty much. It says Arizona.

 

[Gene K]

Got another Toyota 4cyl (2020), OEM says 0w16. Yeah, I get it, special visc to enhance whatever carbon footprint # they can get out of it. All of the info for these 0w-whatever's say they help faster starts in cold weather......... well, what if the vehicle never sees temps below 50F ?

But have to ask, when the low temp in 24hrs is ~79F does the vehicle even need a 0w-whatever? When the daily air temp is 80F low to 107F high (summer in some places of CA, NV, AZ, NM, TX, etc), a 5w20 seems appropriate even if losing whatever gas savings the 0w16 has to offer.

A 0w16 running in a small hot engine when it's ~107-110F outside, looks like pee water.

This is why I think the OEM's should not spec out a visc grade for use, but should rather just spec out a oil lube rating(s) as acceptable, and then perhaps highlight a oil grade that provides best fuel economy.

Options are pretty simple.

1. Use the oil grade they specify and let them worry about it if it breaks before warranty is up.

2. Use whatever your little heart desires and be your own warranty if it breaks.

The choice is yours.

 

[EMPIRE]

Do you live on Mercury?

It was like 118F in Phoenix the other day. So yes, Mercury

 

[gfh77665]

To look at it another way,

Can the OP point to examples of Toyotas using 0W-16 in hot climates, with engine lubrication issues causing engine damage/failure?

Probably not. Can anyone point to examples where super thin viscosities are for maximum protection and not for CAFE purposes?

Probably not.