Differential Pressure Data, Pure 1 & Motorcraft

[MrQuackers]

Who Mourns for Adonais?

 

[slybunda]

did he ever get to try out a synthetic filter?

 

[Izb]

It is very interesting to compare PSID of synthetic oil filters (Amsoil, Royal Purple, Fram) and semi-synthetic (Mobil-1). How much is the difference? 1x(=no difference), 2x, 4x?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Izb

It is very interesting to compare PSID of synthetic oil filters (Amsoil, Royal Purple, Fram) and semi-synthetic (Mobil-1). How much is the difference? 1x(=no difference), 2x, 4x?

Here's a graph I found someplace showing different filters. The Ultragaurd (yellow line) is a full synthetic and it flows better then the others, but overall it's not going to be a gigantic difference. The best to the worst flowing filter in this graph is only 5 PSI difference at 10 GPM. At 5 GPM, it's only a 1.5 PSI difference from best to worst flowing filter.

 

[Izb]

I have found the same pictures on bobistheoilguy.com, but how actual are these pictures? I wonder about FRAM, RP and Mobil-1...

 

[Izb]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Originally Posted By: Izb

It is very interesting to compare PSID of synthetic oil filters (Amsoil, Royal Purple, Fram) and semi-synthetic (Mobil-1). How much is the difference? 1x(=no difference), 2x, 4x?

Here's a graph I found someplace showing different filters.

What is the source if this graph? Is difference (in PSID )of Ultraguard (from ChampLabs?) and Mobil-1 (semisynthetic) 2x (graph#1) or 4x(graph#2)?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Izb

What is the source if this graph? Is difference (in PSID )of Ultraguard (from ChampLabs?) and Mobil-1 (semisynthetic) 2x (graph#1) or 4x(graph#2)?

I believe it was created by AC Delco. Notice how the AC Delco filters (Ultraguard and Duraguard) are in bold letters. I know the (old) graph you posted below mine was from AC Delco because I emailed them years ago about that same graph with questions. Notice though that the Duraguard doesn't show as good of comparative flow performance in the hot oil graph as it does in the cold oil graph ... seems kind of fishy to me. I know the AC Delco Ultraguard was a fill synthetic filter, and it shows in the chart. I have no idea what filters are "Competitor #x", but like I said before, the difference with hot oil at 5 GPM is only a spread of 1.5 PSI between the worst to the best flowing filter. That says all these filters flow way better than any engine could ever tell the difference between them in normal driving conditions. At full tilt of 10 GPM for some high output pumps, the difference is 5 PSI. Still probably not enough difference to make a difference to the engine, but if someone was concerned about getting every possible oil flow to the engine at redline then they would want to go for a full synthetic oil filter.

 

[Izb]

New tests of PSID are been looking for...

 

[Izb]

My friend have just asked me about comparing of PSID of Royal Purple (full syntetic oil filter) and Mobil-1 (semi-synthetic oil filter): 1) Royal Purple 10-2808 and Mobil-1 M1-104 2) Royal Purple 10-2867 and Mobil-1 M1-110 How much is the actual difference of full-synthetic filter vs semi-synthetic filter?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Izb

My friend have just asked me about comparing of PSID of Royal Purple (full syntetic oil filter) and Mobil-1 (semi-synthetic oil filter): 1) Royal Purple 10-2808 and Mobil-1 M1-104 2) Royal Purple 10-2867 and Mobil-1 M1-110 How much is the actual difference of full-synthetic filter vs semi-synthetic filter?

Probably not much with hot oil - reference the graph I posted above showing hot oil delta-p vs flow rate. My guess is the full synthetic would have 1~2 PSI less delta-p vs synthetic blend, and 2~3 PSI less delta-p vs cellulose at a high oil flow rate (ie, 10 GPM). You will never find the delta-p information for the specific oil filters you've mentioned above.

 

[Izb]

By the way, how much were filtering efficiency of ACDELCO Ultraguard and Mobil-1 in 2005? ISO 4548, of course.

 

[Izb]

I have just found filtering efficiency of Ultraguard 98% at 8-10 microns single pass(J1858) : https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16196547543/in/album-72157651360702355/ How much is it according ISO 4548-12?

 

[Izb]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Originally Posted By: Izb

It is very interesting to compare PSID of synthetic oil filters (Amsoil, Royal Purple, Fram) and semi-synthetic (Mobil-1). How much is the difference? 1x(=no difference), 2x, 4x?

The best to the worst flowing filter in this graph is only 5 PSI difference at 10 GPM. At 5 GPM, it's only a 1.5 PSI difference from best to worst flowing filter.

5PSI at 10 gpm : 3AE30 at 190F = 20PSI at 10gpm : SAE30 at 104F = 20PSI at 2.5gpm : SAE30 at 32F !!! (cold start)

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Izb

I have found the same pictures on bobistheoilguy.com, but how actual are these pictures? I wonder about FRAM, RP and Mobil-1...

This plot makes no sense. Oil-filter bypass valve opens long before these huge pressures are reached. Are they measuring the flow rate for unfiltered oil?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan

Originally Posted By: Izb

I have found the same pictures on bobistheoilguy.com, but how actual are these pictures? I wonder about FRAM, RP and Mobil-1...

This plot makes no sense. Oil-filter bypass valve opens long before these huge pressures are reached. Are they measuring the flow rate for unfiltered oil?

I'm thinking they took the filter's bypass valve out of the equation so they could push the delta-p way up there to see how they performed.

 

[Nyogtha]

I think it would bave been simpler to have used a filter model number where the application doesn't require, and didn't include, a bypass valve in the filter's construction. Like a GM application where the bypass is in the block. That's the way I would have done this testing anyway.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Nyogtha

I think it would bave been simpler to have used a filter model number where the application doesn't require, and didn't include, a bypass valve in the filter's construction. Like a GM application where the bypass is in the block. That's the way I would have done this testing anyway.

That what I meant by "taking the bypass valve out of the equation" ... in other words, no bypass valve.

 

[DudeNiceRide]

Why is this a sticky'd topic? Study is appreciated, but seems pretty unscientific from which to draw hard conclusions. They do make laboratory test standards and require calibrated gauges for this stuff for a reason.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: DudeNiceRide

Why is this a sticky'd topic? Study is appreciated, but seems pretty unscientific from which to draw hard conclusions. They do make laboratory test standards and require calibrated gauges for this stuff for a reason.

It's more scientific than what anyone else has done and shared on this board. He mentioned his setup and instrumentation, which seemed pretty decent. It's good info IMO.

 

[Garak]

Yes, and reading through the methodology, for those so inclined, really helps one understand what is meant by the concepts.